trimacar

Not from the factory of course, but there was a rumble seat conversion kit for an early Bird, and it was called the Bird's Nest, if I remember correctly.............

2000 is a pretty good "ballpark" figure, as long as you remember the ball park referenced is Wrigley Field and not your local little league park. There's also a "shop efficiency" that will affect the final price. I've seen guys sand a hood in a few hours, I've seen a guy sand a hood for a week. I do trim work as a hobby now, and I can tell you (of all my great qualities, modesty may be my best) I'm pretty good, but I'm not fast. I do it a stitch at a time, unlike many of the "production" upholstery places I've seen, with the sewing maching sounding like a machine gun....tatatatatatatatatatatatatatat. On a large touring car, to put bowdrill on the bows, new pads, new top, I'm figuring around 50-60 hours. Complete set of side curtains, that many hours again. Rough numbers. I'd say a normal open Classic of the 30's (discounting exotics such as Duesenbergs or V-seventy-elevens) should cost, professionally restored, $160K to $240K. A Model A in the same shop might go as high as $60K to $80K. Mid size cars between Ford and Classic, in the mid range of those numbers.... Again, just ballpark figures.....

Doesn't sound like you're talking a complete restoration anyway. To get a "dead" car running and cleaned up is still a task, but not a huge one. If engine is free, you may be able to come out just as well selling the car "as is", a 32 Packard coupe should be an easy sell......

I'm just jealous! And the pointless post I mentioned was intended to reference my post, in an effort to keep my numbers going, think I'm only at 1300 or so, you're WAY ahead. So here's another one of my pointless posts......not taking much time.... Remember, time is just nature's way of making sure everything doesn't happen at once....

Unplug the sign, perhaps? I'm trying to get rid of the jukebox in my mind, wake up every morning with a different song playing in my head.......

Wow, 9000 posts! You'd almost have to do some pointless posts to get that high (like this one!) Incredible number, though....

I didn't get the "crook" sense either. A restoration shop owner has to be a good businessman to stay in business (my son calls me "Captain Obvious, Defender of the Already Known!). The reason for such a shop to be in existence is to provide a service and make a living, NOT do work for cheap. A customer who doesn't understand this concept, or who doesn't understand what it takes to restore an automobile, can get the "crook" perception, but they can be wrong. That's said, there ARE people out there who can be less than honest, but usually their reputation follows them around like an old fart. I agree with the last 10 to 20%, and in some cases the pain starts well before that point. I saw numerous cars at the shop where I worked be literally "abandoned" by the owners, as they were in a no-win situation. The car would be half or more finished, but they didn't want to write any more checks. In that situation, a mechanic's lien takes over at some point, and the shop ends up owning the car. This doesn't mean the restorer is a "crook", it means that the owner didn't understand the scope of the job in the first place, in parts, hours, services, and dollars, and the restorer didn't communicate the potential investment in the project. I usually do top or interior work by the hour, but I'll give the car owner some rough idea of the final cost. I've done enough early tops that I can probably quote a price and come out OK. Every interior is different, and that's a little harder to do, and there can always be hidden surprises. For example, a local club member has a nice Pierce sedan. He put the top insert on himself, and it literally flapped in the wind. I offered to install an insert correctly, gratis, if he'd supply material. I took the insert material off, and found that the wood underneath the metal was gone in places. Expecting rot, I was shocked when I found that the entire upper wood structure was like charcoal. Apparently, a dome light had gotten hot, and the wood had smouldered and burned. He replaced it himself, as he had a woodworking shop set up. If this situation had happened in a restoration shop, what would have been a $500 top job would have turned into a $3000 wood replacement job. THAT'S the hazard, if you will, of restoration. Just about every job in refurbishing an antique car takes longer than imagined, and has problems of some kind..........

You also through something in there at the last that can significantly add to the cost. "Check the transmission over" can mean a lot of things. To rebuild a transmission, depending on how it's designed (bearings vs. bushings), can be expensive. I needed the rear bushing on my 1910 Hupp transmission replaced. It's a very large bushing, in which the main gear rides, and in the main gear is another bushing for the tail of the transmission shaft. When I went to pick it up at the machine shop I use, the manager of the shop took one look at the bill that someone else had put together, and said "I can't charge you that much...." The bill was $1500, and he showed me the time sheets of the fellow who'd done the work. I didn't push, as I'd set myself up, so to speak, without having an estimate and just telling them to "fix it". On his own, the manager reduced it to $800. STILL an expensive bushing.

I just looked up the tracking number, it should be to you the second Tuesday of next week....... Congrats, a lot of words and thoughts in 2000 posts..........

For a full restoration, most shops won't sign a fixed price agreement. What you're going to get is a time and material agreement, so whatever time the shop spends on the car, you are obligated to pay for it. An exception would be piece work, such as an upholstery job or a paint job. Those, you're better off getting a firm price, if the shop will give that to you. There's a fine balance between spending the time needed to do the job correctly (you'll get this with T&M), and rushing a job (fixed price) with mediocre results. Thus, from a quality standpoint, you're better off paying T&M. From a financial standpoint, you're better off getting a firm quote, as in that situation the worker or workers have more incentive to spend less time on a job and get it done. Quite a Catch 22, I'd say. Work with someone you trust, and don't expect fine work to come cheap.

Beautiful car! I love my 31, but the few additional styling features of the 32 did, indeed, make it look like a "baby Cadillac". Hope you find a good home for it....

Nice looking car, good luck on the sale.....

Funny on the Cord, you're correct, Todd, and Cord confused it even more by having two different top bow configurations on the phaetons. There is a gentleman who makes kits for 810/812 phaetons, so there must be a way to make them fit. I did a complete upholstery job on a '37 phaeton (not mine), and it wasn't bad. The worst (from a pain in the arse fabrication viewpoint) was a Packard Darrin. The Darrin top attaches at the front, with two pieces of sheet metal that clip into the windshield trim. To make a custom top for that car, I had to figure a way to temporarily attach the fabric to the metal, being able to take it off for sewing. It was a fun build.....

You mention pics, but also put some kind of price on it. You probably have a number in mind, go ahead and let it be known, so that people can see if they're interested. An 88 in 64 was a fairly large car, wasn't it? Good luck with sale....

If you're really serious, buy a collection of Automobile Quarterly. Individual copies may not address the information you're looking for, but taken as a whole, it's a wonderful collection of information on cars, body builders, and the industry..........

Nice looking car and trailer combination, Airstreams are so cool...... With all due respect, I think the money you are talking would buy a professionally restored 2-door. Unfortunately it's easy to get "in the bucket" on old cars, one reason one should either buy the best restored car to start with, or only restore a car that you really love (which sounds like was your original intent). Good luck with sale............

There are numerous books out there on restoration, many of them are marque specific, such as Model A and such. In simple words, take the car apart, taking pictures and notes, and keeping all parts organized (large parts tagged, small parts in small paper bags, all identified with what it fits and where....never assume you'll "remember" how to put it back together). After car is apart, start putting it back together again in reverse order, restoring each component to new, or in some cases better than new, before installation. Farm out the big jobs you can't do yourself, usually this means chrome, paint, upholstery, and possibly engine work. Have a big dose of patience, and a bigger balance in your checking account. Make friends with the UPS man, you'll see a lot of him as you buy parts and pieces from around the country. Calculate how much you think it'll cost to restore, and how long it will take. Multiply each number by 4 or 5, and you'll be close. Most of all, have fun, and drive the car once it's restored! These aren't paperweights we're collecting.....

I was selling a 1955 Tbird once, a car from New Orleans. A guy from Michigan called me, and one of the questions was "how rusty is it". Being as honest as I could be, I told him yes, there was rust, I'd had the seat out of the car, and under the seat for some reason there was a rust hole the size of a quarter. He started laughing. "That's nothing" he said. "What I was asking was whether there was any sheet metal left on the car under the level of the door handles!" So as stated, different areas have different tolerance and understanding for rust..... I was outside of Grand Rapids once, looking at a 1968 Cutlass convertible described as "rust free". I opened the hood, and there were literally rust holes in the frame, although they'd been cleaned and painted, so by strict words there was "no rust". I pointed it out to the seller, he said "Hey, that's not bad for around here...."

I remember a few years ago, you'd wait 30 or 40 minutes between posts. There's a lot more involvement now on the forum, an interesting stat would be "average X number of posts per hour"

Todd is correct. Early tops must be custom fit. There are differences in top bows and irons, as they've been used and abused over the years. The first step in putting a top on the car has nothing to do with fabric. You have to position the bows, and then see how they line up. Most tops are not symmetrical from the front'back centerline of the car, usually one side hangs over more, and that needs to be adjusted. Also, sometimes bows are twisted, so the top iron on one side doesn't line up with top iron on other. I can give you an example. A friend of mine has a 1938 Packard super 8 convertible coupe, just like mine, but he lives 1000 miles away. We both needed new tops, so I offered to pattern one on my bows, then send it to him in "kit" form. Just to be sure, I had him send me his old top, and I trial fit his old top on my bows. It was off a good two inches or more in height. There's no way I could make a kit for his, without having his car in front of me. The absolute best top work I've ever seen was on an early brass car, and had been done by an Amish craftsman. Perfect stitching, perfect fit........

That Auburn stands handsome, I like the blackwall tires on it. Very nice looking car, wish I had something to trade (that I wanted to get rid of, that is!)....

Off hand I don't know of anyone out in the Colorado area, but surely there's someone. It does seem to be getting harder and harder to find someone to do decent work at a decent price. John has a little bit of a hard time working on his Buick and Avanti, since I charged him an arm, but at least he's got both legs left........

I know of an early 30's Pierce Arrow that has this feature, and it was not a service car, in the sense that it was a fully trimmed limousine. I've always thought it was a special feature for transporting wheelchair also.....

Louis, as we've discussed, I'm in the same predicament, with a bad 1938 block, although I'm lucky enough to have a complete '37 engine sitting in my storage warehouse. Can anyone on the forum tell us for sure the difference between a 1937 and a 1938 Super 8 block? Is it a "bolt on" swap? Same head etc? I have heard the water pump mounting is different but have not confirmed that. thanks

Older tires, even though "new" and never used, will always be very, very difficult to mount on a clincher rim. I purchased some of the all white 30x3 tires, that were made by Coker in Vietnam about 15 or 20 years ago (I think I have these facts straight). They were "new", but man, were they hard to mount on my Huppmobile.....a couple of hours each, and that's with two of us.... The problem with using any soap or other material to help it on is that you'll invariably scratch the rim down to bare steel, and the moisture will make it rust. I once used electrician's goo to mount a tire, it's made to dry, it's the stuff they use for pulling wires through conduit. I'd use that before detergent. Don't forget to have a supply of bandaids on hand, and make sure no minor children are within earshot. Have fun, though, old cars are great!