[1948 Oldsmobile Engine Oil Recommendation]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

n recent years they took the zinc out because today's OHC cars and cars with roller lifters don't need it.

Just a correction- they reduced (did not remove) zinc and phosphorus levels as they contaminate the catalytic converters. There was a lot of testing that SAE did to ensure backward compatibility to older engines to strike a balance between catalytic converter problems and flat tappet engine problems. The current levels were shown to be adequate in performance production engines but most people that run those or build them beyond specs use the specialty oils with the higher levels of zinc and phosphorus that were previously specified. I would also run the special oils in those engines as added protection.

 

Additionally, going beyond those levels causes oxidation and spalling so, too much is bad also.

[1948 Oldsmobile Engine Oil Recommendation]

23 minutes ago, 57j2olds said:

Keep reading about Rotella and Delvac..

 

Heck I dunno.

 

 

Either one is fine too, they just cost more. Any fully synthetic will work too. All depends on what you want to spend as you will find no performance difference in your application. Just make sure you do frequent oil changes.

 

Lots of folks like Rotella or VR1 for the higher zinc and phosphorus content required for high revving, high performance engines with flat tappet camshafts and I would agree that would be a good choice for a race engine but for those us that don’t race, modern oils are fine. The entire ZDDP “hoax” has been created by the people selling the stuff and perpetuated by those that haven’t read all the SAE papers and test reports on why the current levels are fine except in the most severe cases. Lots of anecdotal stories out there and way too much discussion on oils….I wonder why I bother anymore. I don’t mean to belittle your question though. We are just trying to be helpful. Again, those oils are fine choices too. I choose to save my money.

[1948 Oldsmobile Engine Oil Recommendation]

Without the oil filter go with Rusty’s recommendation and change it fairly often. Synthetic is good stuff but more expensive and the bigger issue is just cleaner oil. No need for any additives or worry about higher ZDDP in your engine - absolutely not required. Just use a good off the shelf API rated oil (probably API SN)

[1951 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Coverable V8 Flathead tapping noise]

For your gaskets

https://www.olsonsgaskets.com/

 

It is better to use the original mechanical pump. Less risk of over pressurizing the carb, less risk of fire, etc. I run the original equipment on all my cars. That said, I do have an electric fuel pump installed on my 1939 LaSalle that I use for priming/starting as modern gasolines tend to vapor lock or boil out of the carb after a hot soak. I run on the mechanical pump. It is also smart to hard plumb the fuel lines when adding an electric pump and avoid rubber fuel lines. 
 

I would rebuild or get a refurbished pump. If the electric pump you have allows to free flow through it when not running, go ahead and keep it and you can use it when needed to improve starts….just put it on its on switch if it isn’t wired that way already.

 

That pump looks pretty accessible so should be easy to diagnose for the ticking noise and/or service it.

 

I agree with Rusty above on the tires and brakes. Museums are a terrible place for cars if they don’t have a regular maintenance program and take it seriously, which includes occasional driving. Most do not. I hate to say it having managed a museum in the past, but from a preservation perspective, it is far better for a car to be sold to a conscientious owner than donated to a museum.

 

I like driving my cars and feeling comfortable doing so which means…

 

I would replace all the tires, wheel cylinders, master cylinder and jounce hoses. I would blow the brake fluid out of the lines and and look at the condition of the fluid. If it is really discolored from rust, then the hard lines would get replaced, if not then I would leave them. Of course if the exterior of the lines were corroded, I would replace them also.

 

Being able to steer and stop the car will save your life and the hydraulic brake system and tires are the two primary failure modes which can cause a horrible accident. The mechanical steering system is typically robust so long as you do a check on the joints to ensure they are not worn out. Lack of propulsion is far less serious.

[1951 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Coverable V8 Flathead tapping noise]

It does sound a lot like a lifter - higher pitch tick vs a thud. With the large plug boot covers you could just pull a wire instead. One at a time and start it up. 

The best thing I’ve found to free something up without disassembly is a couple of quarts of ATF in your oil and run it for a while. The additives in ATF are pretty good at cleaning and freeing stuff up. Personally, I would pull the oil pan and scrape out all the gunk first if you haven’t already.

 

Could it be a fuel pump tick? If you can reach the fuel pump you may be able to feel that or stick a long screwdriver against the pump will often allow to to feel or hear it. Chassis ears work well too.

Scott

[1951 Lincoln Cosmopolitan Coverable V8 Flathead tapping noise]

I would start by grounding out each spark plug ( one at a time) and see if that changes the noise. You can just ground the plug with a screwdriver. That will isolate it to a particular cylinder if it is in the lower end. Quick and simple test.

 

Next I would perform a compression test on each cylinder. Again, that will isolate it to a single cylinder and give an idea on valve or ring issue. This is another fairly simple test but does require a compression tester and removal of each spark plug.

Please let us know results and we can direct from there.

 

[1925 ER Oil capacity]

For my 1923 Light Six, I use:

 

SAE 30 in the engine - whatever is on the shelf as no special oil is needed. 10w-30 would be fine too but I like the straight weight oil better during the hot summer days.

 

90w GL-1 in my transmission. It seems to be easiest to shift with this weight. You could also use GL-4 if desired but not necessary. I tried the same stuff I used in the axle below but didn’t like the shifts as well (gear slowed too fast).

 

600w SPO 299 lube in the rear axle. This is a GL-1 which is fine for your spiral bevel axle.

 

This is a good choice for the rear axle also…about the same weight as the SPO 299 above but GL-4 (has more EP qualities)

 

The heavier gear lube in the rear helps keep the lube from traveling down the axle tubes and the lack of lip seals may allow some leakage with the lighter lubes.

 

You don’t want GL-5 gear lubes as your trans and axle may both have brass/bronze and the friction modifiers in GL-5 with oxidize yellow metals.

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

14 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

I’ll double check the book for the cad but from memory it’s much lower than that, given the similarities of the engine I’m wondering if that could be the issue - does the Oldsmobile book have anything about it under the regulator 

Here is what the Oldsmobile Owner's Manual says about oil pressure. You'll notice that the Olds marketing team was not nearly as astute as the Cadillac team for there is no mention of "Oldsmobile Engine Oil" in my book.

 

Cadillac Engine Oil, huh? I'm sure it was drawn from a pristine reservoir of crude oil and personally processed by the Cadillac Car Company employees. 😁

 

My plan was to try to get the oil pressure down to 15-20 psi hot while driving at 40 mph and see if that makes a difference (plus the change to 10w30). Too many other commitments so I can't get to it until this Thursday, which is killing me.

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

1 hour ago, TexRiv_63 said:

Is it possible that some oil leakage was considered normal based on a slinger with no sealing capability?

A few drops are expected but not a cupful. My 1923 Studebaker has a similar slinger setup and doesn’t leak at all so they are capable. The downside of the slinger is there is no way to keep out water and dust.

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

3 hours ago, hidden_hunter said:

What’s your oil pressure at warm idle?

 

is there any in the fly wheel housing if you remove the plug and stick your finger in there 

I had the oil pressure at max which was running just over 25 psi going down the road. It would run 20 psi at idle. 
 

Cold idle was 25 psi and I took that down to 20.
 

I’ll have to recheck it with the thinner oil and new pressure setting hot and cold but won’t get to that for several days.

 

This has a cone clutch and large potted flywheel. The flywheel housing is open. Other than slinging some grease from the throwout bearing the cone clutch side is fairly dry. The front of the flywheel and OD up to the starter ring was soaked and would sling oil inside the clutch housing that would then drip on the splash shield under the car along with the rear engine mount cross member. I have taken the splash shield off now and dried everything up so I can easily see any leak path. All I have been able to test so far was idle and running it up to maybe 1500 rpm. I don’t want to rev this long stroke engine up any higher without putting it under load.

 

I won’t get back to testing until next week.

 

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

I took the car for a 20 mile drive yesterday. The engine runs great and has a lot of torque. I love the 2 barrel with the added secondaries.....they actually work! The car drives drives great, track well and stops nicely. 40 mph is an easy cruise.

 

The problem is that it spews oil out the back of the engine.....probably a full cup full on the ground after you stop. It's pretty disheartening after all the work. It can only come from two spots:

1) Where the crankshaft exits the rear of the block

2) There is a oil passage out the rear of the crank that has a small hole that picks up oil from the pressurized journal and lubricates the pilot bushing. This path is interrupted by about 2 inches of packed wool felt.

 

 

It is pretty messy around the back of the engine but it appears the oil is slinging off the forward part of the flywheel and not from the clutch side so that means it is coming where the crank exits the block. This engine has no seals and instead has a slinger and drain back cavity. That cavity is only in one side of the two piece block. See photo below.

When I assembled this engine I made sure that drain path was not blocked.

 

My current plan is:

1) To be depressed for a few days

2) Then I will try changing to lighter weight oil (instead of SAE 30). I'm thinking if the drain is just a little restrictive, a lighter oil may just be enough. I will also decrease the oil pressure a bit in the hopes to decrease the oil flow rate out the rear bearing

3) If number 2 doesn't work, there is a slim possibly that I can remove the oil pan, slide the case half bolt out of the way, remove the rear main bearing cap and try to get a tool up there to open it up. I'll have to do a good job catching any metal and flushing the area out and not damaging the crank (although probably not a big deal in that area).

4) If number 3 doesn't work, I'll have to pull the engine out and tear it down and try to figure out what is wrong and how to fix it

5) If number 4 doesn't work, I know where there is a cliff

 

I cleaned everything up and dried up all the oil with mineral spirits. I removed all the underbody panels for clear access and started the engine. It does not leak at an idle. It never did. I tried a high idle and also noticed no oil leakage as it would be easy to see if anything slung off the flywheel. So this issue occurs while driving at higher speeds......so either higher engine rpm, a warmer engine or both.

 

Appreciate any suggestions I'm overlooking. Thanks.

 

[Adding Turn Signal Switch To My '51 Chevy 3100]

My turn signals are hooked up so you have to have the ignition switch or key “on” for the turn signals to work. I did it this way as I won’t be using them when the car isn’t running and no worries about a dead battery if someone bumps the lever when the car is parked. My brake switch is wired to the battery or ammeter since you may want that to work if the car is turned off and it’s a momentary switch so it’s not like you can leave it on.

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

1 hour ago, Dan Cluley said:

Am I seeing correctly that there is a gap between the rim and the fellow, so the only actual points of contact are the 6 wedges?

The back side of the rim is held tightly against the flange of the steel wrap around the felloe which is what the attaching bolts react against.
 

On the outboard side…..for the most part, yes, the wedges provide the contact points but the area where the rim latch protrudes also heavily contacts. Since the wheels are not perfectly round and the rim has some flex to it, there may be some light contact in other spots but really no support like the wedges.

[How hot is too hot?]

Water is a great summertime coolant but I would definitely run some glycol mix if you think you'll ever get below 40 degrees. It is not worth taking a chance on freezing and cracking an engine block. I have my cars in a heated shop in the winter and, since several run water, I usually flip the circuit breakers off the garage doors just in case. If a furnace fails it will take quite a while for things to go below freezing and sensors would let me know way in advance but if a garage door accidently went up while I was sleeping I'm not sure the heat would be enough to keep the car from freezing in 8 hours, especially if it is -10 deg F out. I am definitely an advocate for glycol when the need warrants it.

 

I think a Franklin is a good way to go.

[Period images to relieve some of the stress]

Need to get with the times.....1899 EV

[Grimy's Sock (cooling system filter)]

@Bloo or @Grimy,

Would you explain how/where you run the stocking? Is it just placed inside a coolant line? How do you hold it in place?  Maybe a photo. Thanks.

Scott

 

Oh. Do you prefer nude, tan, black, white, red 😀?

[1926 Ford Model T Fordor]

Hey Eric,

This is the original muffler setup for my 1921 Olds. Well, originally how I got it and still is.

I'm guessing from the 1950's

[Wanted 1921 EJ clutch friction disc]

6 hours ago, Paul schaefer said:

Also need the rubber discs for the universal joints.

Marv Ribbich ( @mribbich@wi.rr.com or 1-262-392-2989) had these in the past or you can make your own from "conveyor" material.

Scott

 

[Wanted 1921 EJ clutch friction disc]

The clutch takes two friction discs and they are loose in the clutch pack creating 4 friction surfaces.  The original setup looks like this but with two friction discs. Yes, they are supposed to be split and fit into the potted flywheel.

Many people, myself included, just have two friction disks riveted to the hub like a standard flat plate clutch. You can have any clutch service company do that for you.

 

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

Now, on to the wheels. As mentioned, the felloes on the wheels only accept the rim in one direction. The valve stem drops through the hole and the locking clamp pin goes into the recess.

You must orient the wheel so the hole in the felloe is at the top, then lift the rim/tire assembly and drop the stem in.

The rim can now be slipped over the rest of the wheel and it's time to install the wedges and nuts.

The wedges should be gradually tightened opposite each other to center the rim on the wheel. Looking at the gaps between the rim and felloe, I decided to start with the two perpendicular to the one closest to the stem. Then the one most opposite the stem. I'm not sure it matters all that much so long as you try to evenly pull them down. So how much torque? After dropping the tire down to the floor, I "felt" what was about right for this size bolt and application, then put my torque wrench on that.....27 ft lbs. I tightened them all to that reading.

 

Next are the stem to felloe nuts. I just snugged them up....not too tight.

Finished it off with the stem cap.

Finally, all done with the four on the ground and one spare tire.I'm getting kind of close to being done. My portable work table in the background is rather void of parts. I'm signed up to participate in the Congress of Motor Cars tour and show at the Gilmore Car Museum May 19-20 and want to put a few miles on the car first, just to shake it down and maybe change the oil. I typically change oil after the first few hours of operation with a new engine....especially one without a filter.

 

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

Tires, tubes and wheels......

 

Based on feedback from my post in Technical, it seems that cornstarch baby powder (vs talc) has worked for others so I went with that since I ran out of talc after replacing a tube in my Studebaker recently, plus it is safer for your health and, as Littlestown Mike pointed out in that post, the lavender scented powder should have a calming effect as I do this job. The whole purpose of using talcum powder in the past is to keep the tube/flap/tire from sticking to one another during the assembly process and possibly folding over the tube or stretching in areas. It allows everything to slip around easily. Once you put 60  psi of air pressure in the tire though, nothing is moving around, just all flexing as a unit.

 

First, I added powder to the inside of the tire, rolled it around and bounced it around. After ensuring all areas inside had a thin powder coat, I ensured any extra got dumped out as you don't want clumps in there.

Next, I partially inflated the tube and put a light coat of powder on that and the flap. I did this over a clean piece of cardboard to ensure I didn't accidently pick up any contaminants.

I installed the tube in the tire. Since this has a straight valve stem, it doesn't matter which way you install the tube.

I then installed the flap.

At this point I always make sure to run my hand along each side of the flap and tube to ensure there are no folds and everything is in its proper place.

At this point I was smelling pretty good. Next I added the bridge washer and stem nut. This goes on top of the flap and you just need to snug the nut and not overtighten it. The bridge washer supports the stem on the rim.

Now you have to decide which side of the tire you want out. These Universal tires have a more pronounced rib on one side vs the other (right side in picture below). This is the side that looks best out, even though it's the same side that says "Made in Vietnam". Tubes made in China but flaps made in USA. I guess a sign of the times in manufacturing. 😞

The rims have an orientation based on how they fit in the wheel felloe so you need to pay attention to which side of the tire to orient the rim to. I started by slipping the rim over the valve stem then used flat bar to start spiraling the rim into the tire. You just keep working it around.

On this rim design, the stem is close to the edge so you have to be a bit careful. I needed to collapse the rim a bit to get the latch aligned and used a rim tool for that. This pulled both ends into place but they were still overlapped a bit.

Now, I used the rim tool to expand the rim. There is a bit of a "sweet spot" for where to place it.

Getting close.

And snap! Everything locks into place.

Time to knock the latch in place.

With the small amount of air in the tube, you can still grab the valve stem and slide it a bit to get the stem perpendicular.

Ensure the bead of the tire is seated in the rim all the way around and it is safe to air it up. To be extra cautious, I just slightly aired up the tire in the rim and placed it on the wheel/felloe before fully filling it. Now is a good time to touch up any paint. And only 4 more to do!

 

The next step is mounting them on the wheels.

 

[fuel delivery issues - next steps]

Had the same issue in my 1939 LaSalle. It was the fuel pump. To diagnose it I put a tee in the line from the pump to the carb and hooked that up to a fuel pressure gauge I could read while driving.

My mechanical pump ran at 2.5 psi while idling.

I started with the engine warm enough to open the choke and be driven normally and found when I accelerated hard up through the gears the mechanical pump would run down to 1.5 psi at the worst. Once the engine got up to operating temp and it was hot under hood, I could get the pressure to fall to zero. If I kept accelerating hard the engine would stumble.  I also flow checked the pump cold vs hot and found it would barely pump when hot. I took the pump apart and everything was fine inside but what I finally discovered is that the check valves would start to leak past at higher temps so a rebuilt pump solved the issue.

Scott

[How hot is too hot?]

46 minutes ago, nat said:

        What can, (and does happen), is that a pump can move some engine water to the radiator which will overfill if the radiator is clogged or the suction hose is blocked. 

     Water is non compressible but expands under cavitation.

     

Nat,

What I really hate about the advent of social media is that it is a terrible place to have a meaningful discussion and debate and there is no way to judge someone’s demeanor in the conversation. I truly respect your opinions and say without trying to give offense that I disagree with the cavitation causing water to expand. Here is why: 

 

Cavitation is a localized event that occurs at the suction side of the impeller of the pump. Let’s just assume we are talking about water. It drops the pressure of the, now hot, water below normal atmospheric pressure whereas the water may boil at, say, 200 degrees. That vapor is now mixed with water at that moment. As soon as you reach the other side of the pump, the pressure is increased and the vapor turns back to liquid.

 

Cavitation results in noise, decreased pumping efficiency and will cause localized erosion of the pump components.

 

I’m not trying to be argumentative in the conversation. My primary point is having a restriction in the system will just slow the flow rate through the entire system. You cannot suck extra water out of the engine without creating any empty space elsewhere.
 

Having a restriction may certainly cause localized boiling or may cause air to be pulled past seals and when that happens you will get a significant change in volume of the coolant and expel stuff out the overflow, especially if there are other things in your coolant that are susceptible to foaming. That is often the result of what you see.

 

I know we can agree that restrictions are bad as are buildups of contaminants that decrease the heat transfer rate across components.

 

Respectfully

Scott

 

 

 

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

I installed the front spindle bearings.

 

I received the new bearing balls from McMaster-Carr. They measure exactly 0.750" and 0.562" which is 0.001 - 0.002" larger in diameter than the originals which I suspect was from the 72,000+ miles of wear using some vintage grease mixtures.

First I filled the inboard race with wheel bearing grease then pushed in each ball and smeared grease over them.

I turned the wheel/hub over and did the same with the outer bearing.

The outer has a wide snap ring retainer that holds the balls in place.

I smeared the spindle with grease, slid on the assembly and installed the large "dust" washer and retaining nut. Like the rear wheel nuts, they are right handed threads on the vehicle right side and left handed threads on left side of the car (driver's side).

Per the adjustment procedure. I tightened the bearing nut "tight" using a 9" wrench then backed off 1/2 of a flat of the nut (~1/12 of a turn). Repeated for both sides. They feel about right 😉.

[How hot is too hot?]

10 minutes ago, nat said:

 I too think that hotter the better as long as you don't overheat or loose coolant.

Well, not necessarily. A pre-war open system was designed around a maximum coolant temperature of around 212 deg F. Running with something like Evans coolant, may not cause coolant loss but will run significantly hotter coolant temps. This may actually overheat valve guide or piston interfaces. If you're assumption was a water based system, I agree with you that running closer to the boiling point is better but you also want some added cooling capacity for those times in high temps/humidity or slow speed so you don't want this limit to be your normal operating state.

 

23 minutes ago, nat said:

In a pressurized system, the water leaving the engine is helping to push it through the radiator back into the engine. 

In a pressurized system you have to look at the entire cooling system as a "closed system". Having a pressurized system does not change the flow characteristics through the system. Assuming we are talking about a liquid, flowrate is flowrate and is not influenced by pressurized system vs non-pressurized. A water pump certainly does change flowrate, so perhaps that is what you were referring to (water pump vs convection system).

 

28 minutes ago, nat said:

If the system is non pressurized and the radiator isn't entirely clear and/or the suction hose is mushy, the water may leave the engine more freely than it gets sucked back into the engine and come out through the overflow.

The amount of coolant that gets sucked out of the radiator, pumped through the engine and then returned to the radiator cannot change as there is no variable storage unit in the system and you cannot compress liquid coolant. I don't disagree that you can restrict the flow (like with a collapsed hose) but you cannot suck more water out of one component than is returned. Generally coolant out the overflow is from too much expansion of the coolant or changing of state from liquid to vapor which greatly expands the volume of coolant in the system so "boiling over" has to go somewhere and it will force out liquid, vapor or both.

 

I'm not trying to be picky or argumentative, but being an engineer most of my life, I like to be accurate with technical descriptions. I think your suggestion on collapsed hoses is good.