[Advice for electric fuel pump setup for flathead Cadillac]

I’ve had an electric fuel pump on my 1939 LaSalle to help for starts and vapor lock. It was installed with rubber fuel line along the frame forward of the left rear tire. I’ve been wanting to hard pipe it and finally decided to do that.

 

I have tried about everything on this car to keep it from vapor locking including replacing the pump with a later model (supposed to be less prone to vapor lock), insulating the line from the pump and installing a heat shield between the carb and rear crossover.

It will occasionally vapor lock when driving once it’s really hot under the hood - usually when demanding some fuel (accelerating).

 

My next thought was to install a bypass around the pump with a check valve. This style pump should flow through but another route may help reduce the pressure drop on the inlet side of the mechanical pump which may help.

 

Here is my proposed setup (fuel line will have double flare joints).

I need to get all the nipples and a union still. My question is:

Should I be using a different check valve? I was planning on this Carter unit which has a light spring and seat design. It requires a small amount of pressure to open it. Maybe just a floating ball check? Does anyone have a recommendation or experience with this one? 
 

Also, feel free to chime in on anything else that doesn’t look right. The drain was to allow a way to pump the tank out if ever needed. Thanks.

Scott

[1919 Northway Model 110 Engine oil capacity, excessive oil smoking, lack of avalabilty of Northway Engine data.]

7 hours ago, human-potato_hybrid said:

What do you mean by bypass oil?

The engine has a full-pressure oil feed system. It has a oil pressure regulator which consists of an adjustable spring and a ball seat. In order to avoid hydraulic lock or extremely high oil pump drive torques when the pump is running, the pressure of the oil is regulated by allowing some to pass around the check ball against the spring pressure. @sfair is suggesting that on this engine the oil that is “bypassed” around the check ball regulator is sent to the timing gear interface. So, if you turn the pressure way up, less goes past the check ball and the timing gears receive less oil. 
 

Personally, I have not seen an oil flow diagram on this engine so I would assume that the comment comes from experience with this particular Northway engine. On my V8 Northway, there is a timing gear oiler integrated with the pressure feed system and all my bypassed oil just dumps into the oil pan. 

[50 Years! The Carburetor Shop began operating in 1974]

Congratulations and thank you, Jon, for all your help and advice over the years. It has helped many of us and often, indirectly, just by reading your replies to different problems.

Scott

[38' Buick Oil Pressure Low After Drive]

The REOlds Transportation Museum has a nice 1937 Olds Touring Sedan 8 cylinder they rent out for weddings, dates, etc. I spent several hours behind the wheel and always enjoy driving that car. My 1939 LaSalle is another nice driving car. I think all of the late 30s models are just fun to drive cars and they look good.

[1935 Dodge Coolant system]

9 minutes ago, Bloo said:

@Stude Light uses no-rosion, and drains it out in the winter. I don't trust myself to do that in time.

Actually I don’t. I have the luxury of a heated building 😁 but I do use No-Rosion with EG to extend corrosion protection. Just to be clear to OP, I use water as a coolant in my early cars with No-Rosion as the lubricant and corrosion inhibitor - best heat transfer fluid ever invented 😉

[Fuel pump fuel flow rate]

You can read through this post from my experience on my 1939 LaSalle and maybe it’ll give some ideas (ignore the discussion on engine knock -resolved that) 3-1/2 psi is the number for my car. Once it starts getting much above 4 psi it starts pushing past the needle. 

 

[1925 ER Oil capacity]

6 quarts for the engine. To the edge of the fill plug holes on the transmission and axle. I have never seen actual specifications on how much the transmission and axle hold but based on experience, it is about 1.5 - 2 quarts for each.

[Carburetor Carter 2 Barrell. Need some help]

Here is a photo of the Carter WDO on my LaSalle. Different carb and different application but you can see how the Cadillac engineers added a heat box to the exhaust manifold to pipe up heat to the choke box. Good luck with your car.

[No Reserve: 1923 Studebaker Model EM Light Six Touring]

The Light Six model is a pretty decent car and drives well. Mine cruises nicely at 35-40mph, higher than 45 and the splash lubricated engine will start getting into what I refer to as the “rattle zone”. It has two wheel brakes so 40 might be okay on a wide open country road but slower elsewhere due to stopping distance. The engine has decent torque.

 

This particular car….

The nickel era cars are not bringing much these days. Parts for these are a bit hard to come by. Unlike a Model T, nothing is being reproduced. I mention this as it will be hard to find the missing parts unless you happen to find an old chassis somewhere.

 

I think the disc wheel option makes the car but you’ll be looking a long time trying to find a spare tire holder and wheel as that option wasn’t nearly as popular as artillery wheels. The front splash apron would have to be made. Neither of these are required to enjoy the car. If you poke around on eBay you’ll find a badge and radiator cap that fits. You could probably find some steering wheel controls as they were used by several manufacturers. Those aren’t required to run the car either. All the missing control rods for the spark and throttle controls are in a box that  @rbk has.
 

Most of the rest is me nit picking.

 

The real question I would have is “was this car just assembled out of parts for a quick sale or did the person doing it want to make it safe to drive?” That I don’t know. Did they get into the engine? Did they use tire flaps? Are the brake controls all there?

 

It looks nice in the photos. If it runs and drives and you want to fix a few things I think maybe the $11k it is at is all I would spend. I’ve seen a few nice late 20s Buicks go for not much more. These were sold by private owners and, while maybe not as shiny, were proven runners. 

[No Reserve: 1923 Studebaker Model EM Light Six Touring]

 

My two cents -

 

The car is missing a few items:

Radiator cap

Radiator shell badge

Front splash apron (this is an exterior body panel)

Crankshaft cover

Top bow clamps

License plate bracket

Rear tail lamp

Entire spare tire support (for disc wheels)

Spare wheel itself

Trim around running board cutouts

Edge trim around the running boards

Nickel plated acorn nuts for the windshield pivot

Rubber trim around cowl vent

Rear window trim

Correct top pivot nuts

Passenger interior door handle

Horn button and steering wheel spark and throttle control levers 

Dashlamp

Missing correct choke control knob

Missing correct ignition/lighting switch

Missing correct ammeter and oil gauge

Top trim piece around pedals

Oil can

Stewart Fuel Pump

Hoodlace around radiator shroud

 

Very amateur restoration:

Non-stock body color

Paint job looks amateurish

Headlight rings should be nickel and not polished brass

Door handles are painted over

Hood latches and hood latch handles are painted instead of nickel

Fuel cap painted instead of nickel

Running boards should be battleship linoleum and not rubber mat

Aftermarket bumpers look to be chrome instead of nickel

Improper fasteners for headlamps to body and hood side panels to frame (modern hex head instead of slotted round head bolts)

All the flip top oil cups replaced with grease fittings (entire chassis)

Zinc plated Phillips head screws holding on exterior door handles (really?!)

Robe rail and foot rest supports painted instead of nickel plated

Robe rail held on with Phillips screws

All lugnuts are polished brass vs nickel

Windshield support nuts brass instead of nickel

Disc wheels are supposed to have 90 degree nickel plated brass stems - looks like someone bent over rubber stems (may fail early)

Dash is painted - should be wood grain finish

Front floorboards are carpeted instead of linoleum

Windshield interior handle painted instead of nickel plated

Interior cowl lamp covers are brass instead of being painted

Dash held on with Phillips screws

Steering wheel support is painted instead of polished aluminum

Door panels don't look right, held on with Phillip screws and rear seat panel coming loose

Top bows painted instead of cloth wrapped

Engine compartment paint wrong, modern plug wires, crimp on wire connectors, screw clamps

Has fuel pump, rubber lines, screw clamps

Hoodlace attached with Phillips head screws instead of split rivets

Plywood running boards instead of southern yellow pine

Wrong muffler (should be round) and incorrect tail pipe

 

And that's what I can see. Other than that it looks pretty good 😉

 

Point is, don’t over pay for it.

[38' Buick Oil Pressure Low After Drive]

1 hour ago, TK3295 said:

Yeah she only dropped to 15ish at a long idle and very slow driving with frequent stopping 

As mentioned earlier, your oil pressure numbers are fine, although you could improve your hot engine oil pressures by switching to a heavier weight oil. I think 5W30 is a bit light. I mentioned 10W30 as an all-weather oil. If you are just driving in the summer then I would go heavier. It really depends on the climate you are driving in. Ed's suggestion of SAE40 is fine for really hot weather and is about the heaviest I would go. Mid-west summer weather... then maybe SAE30.

 

Truthfully, whether you use 10W30, SAE20, SAE30, 20W50 or SAE40 we are just playing a little with hot/cold oil pressures, your engine will be happy with any of them. If you are focused on summer driving, I would pick either SAE30 or SAE40 depending on how hot you typically drive in. If you do that, I think you'll find your hot vs cold pressure will be closer together.

 

I hope you have fun with the car!

[38' Buick Oil Pressure Low After Drive]

When I first read this, I assumed that when cold you got 40-50 psi and when hot, the 15 psi was at an idle and the 30 psi was when driving or revving the engine. If so, those numbers are fine.

 

If it’s dropping to 15 psi when cruising then you have an issue. 

[Air in the Gearbox oil]

I spent several years as a manual transmission development engineer at GM and @Bloo is spot on. 
 

If you look at your synchronizer assembly closely you will most likely see a brass, bronze or aluminum inverted cone with grooves in it that rides over a polished steel cone. The gear oil creates a boundary layer between the two parts to prevent wear but when you shift, you are squeezing that oil out from between the tops of the grooves (ridges) and the steel cone.

 

Once the synchronizers wear, the tops of those ridges flatten out and get wider. The valleys of the grooves get smaller and its harder to squeeze out the oil to get the synchronizer ring to brake and lock on to the gear cone to allow the two parts to speed match. 
 

For worn out synchros, I recommend using a mineral based oil without the EP friction modifiers required for a hypoid. That said, I suggest a 90 wt GL-1 gear oil. Generally the synthetic oils are more “slippery” (they have better lubrication properties) which isn’t what you want for worn synchronizers.

Scott

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

The top on this car had a few tears so I wanted to get them patched up. This was the worst one.

I started by cutting a pice of material out of the old top from my Studebaker that I had saved for a future pattern. It is the exact same material that is on the Olds.

Next. I taped it to the inside over the tear and outlined it with duct tape, which is the only tape that would stick at all.

I then applied two coats of Barge Rubber Cement to both the top and the patch.

After allowing them to dry, I pressed the patch in place. The color match looks worse in the photo.

By doing it this way you avoid extra glue where you don’t need it and it makes for a much neater job. And a shot from the exterior…

I repeated this in a few other spots with small holes.

 

I took the car on a 60 mile drive today - 30 in the day and 30 at night. Runs and drives great and the original lights and added spotlight work really well. I use the spotlight as my “high beam” which helps to see those green eyes along the sides of the road (deer) giving enough time not to hit them. 
 

I did notice this little ticking sound coming from up front when I got up to a little over 40mph. I discovered that, since I still had a shield off that covers the rear cross member and starter, the wind pressure was walking the starter bendix back into the flywheel so it was ticking along the gear teeth. No damage but something I’ll fix tomorrow.

[1928 Pontiac 6-28 sedan]

Glad you got it running! Congrats.

[Air in the Gearbox oil]

When I drain the SAE 90 or SAE 250 gear oils that I run in my prewar cars they will be really frothy if I drain them right after running. It is pretty normal as the gears churn up the oil. It takes a day or so for the oil to lose all the froth. Afterwards the oil looks just like new. I use GL1 or GL4 oils depending on the application. I’ve recently done this on a fresh rebuild with new oil so it isn’t a contamination issue.

[38' Buick Oil Pressure Low After Drive]

That is pretty typical and is the result of the oil viscosity decreasing as the oil gets hot. My 1939 LaSalle V8 behaves the same way. Nothing to worry about. 10W30 would be a good choice for viscosity.

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:54 PM, Bloo said:

It should be fine for now, but I think eventually you will have to bend the pipe. In the longer term, oil will damage a coolant hose and make it soft, weak, and quite a bit larger. I once had a Ford with a missing draft tube. I substituted heater hose just to get it on the road. The hose needed changing every now and then until I found it a proper draft tube.

 

Keep us posted on whether it solves the leak. I'll bet it will.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I tested out the new vent system and it works great. No more oil leakage issues.

 

My plan is to run what I have for the summer and work on a final solution this winter… and maybe new kingpins too. 
Scott

[1921 Oldsmobile Model 46 - I ask myself, Why?]

Working on changing my engine vent to a draft tube. 
 

I started by going through the Gates Coolant Hose catalog and selecting a hose with a 1-1/2” ID and a quick 180 degree bend. 
 

Gates 20722

Also picked up some 1-1/4” ID flexible exhaust tubing. I formed up some clamps out of 3/4” wide flat stock. After some modification it looks like this. 

When I was done, I thought I just created a laundry hose that hangs over the tub 😁

 

This is what it looks like installed.

I added a screen in the end to keep the critters out.

I think it’s okay looking for now. I didn’t have the right size vintage clamps so I’ll add those when I find some and maybe next winter I’ll convert to a solid custom bent pipe.

 

[What unique or different engines/ unique or different cars fascinate you just for those reasons?]

In case you missed the story I posted.......

 

1/2 Scale REO Model A Two Cylinder Car (made in 1905). This is a shot with the body off.

This is the same view in the 1905 REO Model A Owners Manual

Engine running

 

Car driving

 

[1925 ER Oil capacity]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:12 PM, commander Dave said:

So now all of a sudden we don't need to use oil with zddp. What about all the pictures of destroyed parts? So, flat tappet engines can use regular oil ? I think I'll keep using oil with zddp because next youse guys might say to use the stuff. Who the heck do we believe. Sounds like the government saying certain foods are to be avoided and next they say they should be eaten in mass quantities. Come on now!

Not all of a sudden. Never have needed zddp in pre-war cars. It was never added to oils until the need arose with higher cylinder pressures, higher lift cams, stronger valve springs, tec. - basically more modern post-war engines. AND it is still added to oils to protect flat tappet cams in appropriate levels. Only very high performance engines need a little more zinc and phosphate for protection.

 

I have no problem if you want to spend more money on oils with higher levels of zddp, I just caution folks not to add any zddp additives to oils already containing zddp as too high a level will also cause increase wear and pitting. 

 

I try to educate those asking for advice as I read all the SAE reports and spoke to the oil experts at General Motors (during my 30 year employment as an engineer there) regarding the reduction in zddp levels to protect catalytic convertors and the testing performed to ensure the current levels  still provide adequate protection for all but race engines. The whole zddp snake oil sales popped up from the industry that is trying to sell it to you using a bunch of anecdotal stories. I trust the work done by the Society of Automotive Engineers and OEMs vs the stories from oil supplement industry telling me why I have to buy their product. Sorry, I'm an engineer.....I follow the data.

 

BTW, this discussion on zinc dialkyldithiophosphates has no bearing on this particular post as the ER has roller cam followers.

 

 

[Vintage Reproductions - replica of a 1901 Oldsmobile pie wagon and am looking for manual and any information on outlets for parts]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:49 PM, oldcarfudd said:

Does anyone know where I can find correct plans for a 1904 Model 6C body?  I have a 6C that has done the Brighton Run with a prior owner and has been certified by the Veteran Car Club as a genuine 1904, but it has a poorly made repro body that I'd like to replace.  The VCC doesn't care about bodies, only running gear, but I care.

You may try the RE Olds Transportation Museum Archives. Archivists are there on Tuesdays.

[What unique or different engines/ unique or different cars fascinate you just for those reasons?]

Since I have one in my car......the Northway 209 V8 (1916-1922) used by Oldsmobile.

Split vertically down the case center.

Crank and cam main caps (all two of them) bolt horizontally into one case half

Flat plane crank has external lines to pump oil from main journals to rod throws

Fork and blade rod construction

 Very compact cylinder spacing

 

 

[1928 Pontiac 6-28 sedan]

Zach,

I just started following your post here. If you ever need rings again or aren't happy with what you pieced together on eBay, here is the source:

https://www.ringspacers.com/

Dave Reed is a great guy and very reasonable. He is also super helpful for advice - piston, rings, etc.

 

Scott

[1936 Oldsmobile F36 rumble seat coupe question]

I know that this is a different year and body style but value depends on many factors and I agree that rarity isn’t typically the driving factor….it is body style. 

 

https://www.classic.com/veh/1932-oldsmobile-f-32-convertible-roadster-dcr15351-45P3zdp/