George Albright

Dear Friends I am still in need of someone to haul the Hanover from Orange,Calif to Ocala,Fla. 34471. It is small and light and will fit in the back of a pickup truck. Will pay $600 for the haul,which will cover most of a pickups gas across the USA. Leads to haul appreciated. Thanks,George Albright cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Dear Friends I am still in need of someone to haul the Hanover from Orange,Calif to Ocala,Fla. 34471. It is small and light and will fit in the back of a pickup truck. Will pay $600 for the haul,which will cover most of a pickups gas across the USA. Leads to haul appreciated. Thanks,George Albright cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Dear Friends I am still in need of someone to haul the Hanover from Orange,Calif to Ocala,Fla. 34471. It is small and light and will fit in the back of a pickup truck. Will pay $600 for the haul,which will cover most of a pickups gas across the USA. Leads to haul appreciated. Thanks,George Albright cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Here is my response back to Karl,posted above,and below this thread. George Albright: Dear Karl; Many thanks for your info. I have spoke to Dan Sheler and he could not remember what publication has the comments in it,that you uncovered. Several months ago Mr. Harris(correct spelling) grandson contacted me,Mr. Wayne Beutel of Michigan. His family had quite a bit of stuff on his grandad and his car. We have a letter whereby Mr. Harris mentions the car was built by employees of the Fleetwood Body Company,whatever that means. 2 months ago Mr. Jeff Lane of Lane Motor Museum of Nashville,bought the car from me,at what I had in it. His committment to restore and display the car convinced me that he was the right guy to take it in trust,for future generations. All of us are continuing to look for info on Harris and the car,and your email is very appreciated! You will notice at the top of this email is a CC to both Wayne and Jeff at their emails. Jeffs email is lane@lanemotormuseum.org Wayne Beutels email is waynebeutel@hotmail.com You are more than welcome to contact me or either of them in the future concerning the car. We are working to research and restore the car as a team! Thanks again,George Albright email gnalbright@gmail.com cell 352 843 1624 - Show quoted text - On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Karl Petersen <karlp@firedragon.com> wrote: I saw your queries in the AACA forum. Mrs. Hariss said the body was built by Fleetwood craftsmen. This tends to indicate that it was not built at the Fleetwood shops. I remember the ads from steam car magazines as I subscribed to the Steam Automobile quarterly, the Steam Calliope and the Steam Power Quarterly and have them all. It is not in the Steam Automobile quarterly, though, since I have it on pdf and searched it. The car was written up in the Steam Automobile Bulletin with attached photo, as follows: Dan Sheler writes: I read with interest the recent Bulletin article on the house car built by J. Roy Hunt. I have a similar vehicle that I first saw in Detroit in the 30s. It was built by a Mr. H. R. Harris, a retired engineer. I obtained the car from former SACA President R. A. Gibbs in March, 1993. Mr. Gibbs did not acquire the car from the builder, and does not recall the name of the party he got it from. I have been unable to locate any of the late Mr. Harris's relatives or acquaintances. If anyone can shed some light on the subject, I would like very much to hear from you. Write or phone me - 41 Wayne Street, Grand Rapids, MI 49548, Tel. 616/455-3948. Mr. Harris had obtained the body somewhere and mounted it on a Packard chassis of about 1929 vintage.' The steam generator is a "Thorne Multiple," with forty separate water level steam-generating elements. The burner is similar to a Stanley, but with multiple perforated lava discs instead of a cast iron plate. The rest of the power plant is from a 1922 Stanley 740. All steam components are in excellent condition. Steam Automobile Bulletin, Vol. 8, No. 5, p. 3. Sept/Oct 1994. If you need it, you can find the factory brochure for the Thorne Multiple Boiler on the internet. Karl A. Petersen Boise, Idaho 208 340 4570

Dear Friends: Here is a response to this subject I just received my email. Thanks,George Albright : I saw your queries in the AACA forum. Mrs. Hariss said the body was built by Fleetwood craftsmen. This tends to indicate that it was not built at the Fleetwood shops. I remember the ads from steam car magazines as I subscribed to the Steam Automobile quarterly, the Steam Calliope and the Steam Power Quarterly and have them all. It is not in the Steam Automobile quarterly, though, since I have it on pdf and searched it. The car was written up in the Steam Automobile Bulletin with attached photo, as follows: Dan Sheler writes: I read with interest the recent Bulletin article on the house car built by J. Roy Hunt. I have a similar vehicle that I first saw in Detroit in the 30s. It was built by a Mr. H. R. Harris, a retired engineer. I obtained the car from former SACA President R. A. Gibbs in March, 1993. Mr. Gibbs did not acquire the car from the builder, and does not recall the name of the party he got it from. I have been unable to locate any of the late Mr. Harris's relatives or acquaintances. If anyone can shed some light on the subject, I would like very much to hear from you. Write or phone me - 41 Wayne Street, Grand Rapids, MI 49548, Tel. 616/455-3948. Mr. Harris had obtained the body somewhere and mounted it on a Packard chassis of about 1929 vintage.' The steam generator is a "Thorne Multiple," with forty separate water level steam-generating elements. The burner is similar to a Stanley, but with multiple perforated lava discs instead of a cast iron plate. The rest of the power plant is from a 1922 Stanley 740. All steam components are in excellent condition. Steam Automobile Bulletin, Vol. 8, No. 5, p. 3. Sept/Oct 1994. If you need it, you can find the factory brochure for the Thorne Multiple Boiler on the internet. Karl A. Petersen Boise, Idaho 208 340 4570

Thanks for the response. However please note,that this radiator has a name plate on the rear that says it was made by Bush Radiator Co. Please see photo above, of the plate. Does anyone know what makes used Bush radiators like this? Thanks,George

Can some of you Overland guys look at the radiator and the makers tag on the rear of it,and determine if at least the radiator is circa 1911-16 Overland? Notice the shell is NOT painted. Thanks,George

Guys looking further,I think this chassis is earlier than 1914ish,as the front springs are fully elliptical and not semi elliptical like one many 1912-15 cars such as that period Studebakers,EMFs etc. In addition the flatness of the top of the fenders,and their drop down curves at the running board looks earlier too. Geo.

Thanks guys for the tips. Yes the radiator looks like Studebaker but I went to the Standard Catalogue of American Cars and studied circa 1914-16 Studebaker small 4s. Wrong neck on the radiator and around 106 inch WB verses mine at 100 or 100 1/2 inch WB. It definitely not a circa 1916 Grant. Wrong wheelbase and front springs are totally different as is radiator shell. Thanks for the Messnich Phipps tip. Not one of their chassis either. Forgot to mention that if I can ID the chassis,then it probably carries the same touring car body that Kelsey originally had on this chassis and then discarded in the 1930s. I would like to remount a "correct" touring car body,or just put on speedster cowl, bucket seats,and oval or round gas tank like 1913-14 Overland,Metz,Hudson factory speedsters and leave rear friction drive unit exposed for display purposes. Anyone got any speedster components like I mentioned? Thanks,George

Dear Friends My 1917 Kelsey prototype friction drive chassis arrived today! It was the basis for the production 1920-24 Kelsey friction drive cars built. Mr. Kelsey writes that he built this chassis in the latter part of 1916 and finished it in 1917. Since he used a second hand touring car body,the chassis was probably used as well,and is probably from a 1913-15ish car.Mr. Kelsey wrote in an article that the car was painted grey and had a used touring car body,which he disposed of off of this chassis in the 1930s and then stored the chassis. The fenders are still original paint grey.The chassis is originally from another production car and I need your help IDing the base car chassis that he modified with this rear friction drive mechanism,and probably installed this 1916 or 1917 Messnick Phipps 22 HP engine in. It is possible that Messnick Phipps was merely the foundary and the engine was actually made by Perkins of Detroit. The brass tag on the engine says Messnick Phipps Detroit,and is hand stamped Model B,Engine # 152. Anyway back to the chassis; It is either 100 inches or 100 1/2 inch wheelbase. The wheels have 30 X 3 tires on them,and are non demountable. Notice the front axle spring perches have a second unused hole,like the front axle originally had a wider set of springs on it than now.The radiator has a tag on the back of it that says Bush Mfg. Co. Hartford,Conn. with a high serial # stamped in, that being 13,141. The radiator has the shape of a teens Overland,but has the wrong style radiator neck. This neck is round,and Overlands were oval necks.. The chassis is also not Ford Model T,and not 1911-17 Metz,and not 1916 Grant and not 1916-17 Woods Mobilette,even though the last 1916-17 Woods used the same MP 22 HP engine as this.The fenders drop down on the front and rear running board like those off of a touring car,not a roadster or speedster. Anyway we know from the builder it was a touring car with grey paint and red leather. It is possible that the radiator does NOT belong to this chassis,but was added by Kelsey. It has 2 springs in the front and one in the rear,but may have had 2 originally,but Kelsey may have gone to one in the rear when he added the friction drive rear. Your thoughts please? More photos avail. by email request to me. George Albright,Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Dear Friends My 1917 Kelsey prototype friction drive chassis arrived today! It was the basis for the production 1920-24 Kelsey friction drive cars built. Mr. Kelsey writes that he built this chassis in the latter part of 1916 and finished it in 1917. Since he used a second hand touring car body,the chassis was probably used as well,and is probably from a 1913-15ish car.Mr. Kelsey wrote in an article that the car was painted grey and had a used touring car body,which he disposed of off of this chassis in the 1930s and then stored the chassis. The fenders are still original paint grey.The chassis is originally from another production car and I need your help IDing the base car chassis that he modified with this rear friction drive mechanism,and probably installed this 1916 or 1917 Messnick Phipps 22 HP engine in. It is possible that Messnick Phipps was merely the foundary and the engine was actually made by Perkins of Detroit. The brass tag on the engine says Messnick Phipps Detroit,and is hand stamped Model B,Engine # 152. Anyway back to the chassis; It is either 100 inches or 100 1/2 inch wheelbase. The wheels have 30 X 3 tires on them,and are non demountable. Notice the front axle spring perches have a second unused hole,like the front axle originally had a wider set of springs on it than now.The radiator has a tag on the back of it that says Bush Mfg. Co. Hartford,Conn. with a high serial # stamped in it,that being 13,141. The radiator has the shape of a teens Overland,but has the wrong style radiator neck. This neck is round,and Overlands were oval necks.. The chassis is also not Ford Model T,and not 1911-17 Metz,and not 1916 Grant and not 1916-17 Woods Mobilette,even though the last 1916-17 Woods used the same MP 22 HP engine as this.The fenders drop down on the front and rear running board like those off of a touring car,not a roadster or speedster. Anyway we know from the builder it was a touring car with grey paint and red leather. It is possible that the radiator does NOT belong to this chassis,but was added by Kelsey. It has 2 springs in the front and one in the rear,but may have had 2 originally,but Kelsey may have gone to one in the rear when he added the friction drive rear. Your thoughts please? More photos avail. by email request to me. George Albright,Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Looking for a 1920s aircooled OR later water cooled V-twin 12-15 HP engine and transmission setup,used in 1921-27 Hanover cyclecars,made in Hanover,Pa. Leads appreciated. Hanover had outside suppliers cast the parts,but the engine design was theirs,and this engine and trans was assembled in their factory. I have one of these cars,and looking for spares and other cars and owners. Thanks,George Albright,Ocala Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Looking for a 1920s aircooled OR later water cooled V-twin 12-15 HP engine and transmission setup,used in 1921-27 Hanover cyclecars,made in Hanover,Pa. Leads appreciated. Hanover had outside suppliers cast the parts,but the engine design was theirs,and this engine and trans was assembled in their factory. I have one of these cars,and looking for spares and other cars and owners. Thanks,George Albright,Ocala Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Looking for a 1920s aircooled OR later water cooled V-twin 12-15 HP engine and transmission setup,used in 1921-27 Hanover cyclecars,made in Hanover,Pa. Leads appreciated. Hanover had outside suppliers cast the parts,but the engine design was theirs,and this engine and trans was assembled in their factory. I have one of these cars,and looking for spares and other cars and owners. Thanks,George Albright,Ocala Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

I don't want to sound curt,but why don't you use a 1928-31 Ford Model A engine which looks alot like this,until you find the real thing. Good Luck,George Albright,Fla.

The Brennan project is still available. The price is now $35,000,which will INCLUDE the 1903-04 Brennan 12 HP two cylinder engine as part of the deal. George Albright cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

The Brennan project is still available. The price is now $35,000,which will INCLUDE the 1903-04 Brennan 12 HP two cylinder engine as part of the deal. George Albright cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Title: 1900-1904 Upton planetary transmission for horseless carriage! Up for sale is a piece that I have never shown anyone,let alone offered for sale. This is a super rare Upton Transmission made by the Upton Machine Company of Beverly,Mass. from 1900 to around 1904. It is an early one,with serial number 334.I have seen only one other of these in my 25 years of collecting 1900-04 cars and parts. It was in a 1990s HCCA article where an 1897 Oldsmobile electric trap was repowered with a Beilfuss gas motor,and an Upton trans exactly like this one,around 1903. These trans were primarily sold by parts houses such as Neustadt Perry and Dykes of St. Louis,from 1900,1901,1902,1903,and 1904. As you can see from the 1903 Neustadt Perry catalogue page,they came in 4 sizes. This one weighs around 75 pounds,so it must be a size #3, for an 8 to 12 HP engine,which would be for a one or two cylinder hit and miss engine,like in an early Ford,Rambler,Curved Dash Olds,Cadillac,Reo,Pope,Packard,Pierce,Peerless,De Dion Bouton,Panhard,Daraacq,or a smaller 4 cylinder car. You can mount this trans in line with the engine and use it with a shaft drive rear axle,or turn sideways and use it with a chain drive rear axle,like a Weston Mott,American Ball Bearing or Timken.This transmission is historically correct as a replacement for ANY pre-1905 veteran car,eligible for the London To Brighton Run. It has been stored inside and turns over evenly and freely,with NO back and forth play. As you can see from the inside inspection cover being removed,the inside looks great,with very,very little moisture rust.I cannot guarantee nothing is broken,and you are buying AS IS. However the case and imput and output shafts all also look good. This has 2 speeds forward,and one reverse,and is an unusual design for a planetary or dog clutch. If you are building your own early brass era auto automobile car,racer,speedster,race,then this is a must for you! The overall length from shaft to shaft is 23 inches. The case is 12 inches wide. The square output shaft is turned down to a 1 1/2 inch size.The square part of the shaft is 3 3/8 inches long. The round opening on the other end,the imput shaft end,accepts a round shaft 1 1/2 inches across. The numerous patent dates on the other brass plate run in 1900 and 1901. Please email me if interested. I can email more photos. Price is $3,800. Check and wire also accepted. Overseas purchases welcome. Shipping and packing in the USA is a flat fee of $125.00. Overseas shipping will be for actual costs. Good Luck! George Albright,Ocala,Fla. email: gnalbright@gmail.com cell 352 843 1624

Title: 1900-1904 Upton planetary transmission for horseless carriage! Up for sale is a piece that I have never shown anyone,let alone offered for sale. This is a super rare Upton Transmission made by the Upton Machine Company of Beverly,Mass. from 1900 to around 1904. It is an early one,with serial number 334.I have seen only one other of these in my 25 years of collecting 1900-04 cars and parts. It was in a 1990s HCCA article where an 1897 Oldsmobile electric trap was repowered with a Beilfuss gas motor,and an Upton trans exactly like this one,around 1903. These trans were primarily sold by parts houses such as Neustadt Perry and Dykes of St. Louis,from 1900,1901,1902,1903,and 1904. As you can see from the 1903 Neustadt Perry catalogue page,they came in 4 sizes. This one weighs around 75 pounds,so it must be a size #3, for an 8 to 12 HP engine,which would be for a one or two cylinder hit and miss engine,like in an early Ford,Rambler,Curved Dash Olds,Cadillac,Reo,Pope,Packard,Pierce,Peerless,De Dion Bouton,Panhard,Daraacq,or a smaller 4 cylinder car. You can mount this trans in line with the engine and use it with a shaft drive rear axle,or turn sideways and use it with a chain drive rear axle,like a Weston Mott,American Ball Bearing or Timken.This transmission is historically correct as a replacement for ANY pre-1905 veteran car,eligible for the London To Brighton Run. It has been stored inside and turns over evenly and freely,with NO back and forth play. As you can see from the inside inspection cover being removed,the inside looks great,with very,very little moisture rust.I cannot guarantee nothing is broken,and you are buying AS IS. However the case and imput and output shafts all also look good. This has 2 speeds forward,and one reverse,and is an unusual design for a planetary or dog clutch. If you are building your own early brass era auto automobile car,racer,speedster,race,then this is a must for you! The overall length from shaft to shaft is 23 inches. The case is 12 inches wide. The square output shaft is turned down to a 1 1/2 inch size.The square part of the shaft is 3 3/8 inches long. The round opening on the other end,the imput shaft end,accepts a round shaft 1 1/2 inches across. The numerous patent dates on the other brass plate run in 1900 and 1901. Please email me if interested. I can email more photos. Price is $3,800.00.Check and wire also accepted. Overseas purchases welcome. Shipping and packing in the USA is a flat fee of $125.00. Overseas shipping will be for actual costs. Good Luck! George Albright,Ocala,Fla. email: gnalbright@gmail.com cell 352 843 1624

Dear Friends: Randy Ema was kind enough to sell me his 1922 Hanover cyclecar built from 1921-27 in limited quantities,in Hanover,Pa. Most were 12-15 HP 2 aircooled cylinder engines like mine,but a few were small water cooled 4 cylinder ones,like the one in the car corral at 2009 Hershey,I believed owned by Mark Hyman.That one was red or white I believe. There is a white one with red wheels in the Agricultural and Science Museum in York,Pa. Guys as I remember there was an ad wanting a Hanover,or selling one,several years ago,in the classified ads of the AACA Gazette. In addition,in the same issue or there abouts,there was also someone selling a set of Hanover axles,etc. Does anyone remember or know who these 2 ads were placed by,and/or have those back issues with that info? Randy acquired this car from Jim Talmadge of Calif. The car originally came from Harrahs. At this time,I need a complete hood,bumpers,and 4 fender brackets.I would also like to buy a spare engine and trans. I do not know who made the engine at this point.Other owners,people with parts,literature and leads appreciated. Finally I need to get it shipped with inside transport from Orange,Calif 92866 to Ocala,Fla.34471. It is very small with an approx wheelbase of only 7-8 feet and weighs around 5-600 lbs. Would fit in a pickup truck bed. Does not run,but rolls easily. Will pay $600.00 for the haul. Thanks! George Albright,Ocala,Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Dear Friends: Randy Ema was kind enough to sell me his 1922 Hanover cyclecar built from 1921-27 in limited quantities,in Hanover,Pa. Most were 12-15 HP 2 cylinder aircooled engines like mine,but a few were small water cooled 4 cylinder ones,like the one in the car corral at 2009 Hershey,I believed owned by Mark Hyman.That one was red or white I believe. There is a white one with red wheels in the Agricultural and Science Museum in York,Pa. Guys as I remember there was an ad wanting a Hanover,or selling one,several years ago,in the classified ads of the AACA Gazette. In addition,in the same issue or there abouts,there was also someone selling a set of Hanover axles,etc. Does anyone remember or know who these 2 ads were placed by,and/or have those back issues with that info? Randy acquired this car from Jim Talmadge of Calif. The car originally came from Harrahs. At this time,I need a complete hood,bumpers,and 4 fender brackets.I would also like to buy a spare engine and trans. I do not know who made the engine at this point.Other owners,people with parts,literature and leads appreciated. Finally I need to get it shipped with inside transport from Orange,Calif 92866 to Ocala,Fla.34471. It is very small with an approx wheelbase of only 7-8 feet and weighs around 5-600 lbs. Would fit in a pickup truck bed. Does not run,but rolls easily. Will pay $600.00 for the haul. Thanks! George Albright,Ocala,Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

Dear Friends: Randy Ema was kind enough to sell me his 1922 Hanover cyclecar built from 1921-27 in limited quantities,in Hanover,Pa. Most were 12-15 HP aircooled 2 cylinder engines like mine,but a few were small water cooled 4 cylinder ones,like the one in the car corral at 2009 Hershey,I believed owned by Mark Hyman.That one was red or white I believe. There is a white one with red wheels in the Agricultural and Science Museum in York,Pa. Guys as I remember there was an ad wanting a Hanover,or selling one,several years ago,in the classified ads of the AACA Gazette. In addition,in the same issue or there abouts,there was also someone selling a set of Hanover axles,etc. Does anyone remember or know who these 2 ads were placed by,and/or have those back issues with that info? Randy acquired this car from Jim Talmadge of Calif. The car originally came from Harrahs. At this time,I need a complete hood,bumpers,and 4 fender brackets.I would also like to buy a spare engine and trans. I do not know who made the engine at this point.Other owners,people with parts,literature and leads appreciated. Finally I need to get it shipped with inside transport from Orange,Calif 92866 to Ocala,Fla.34471. It is very small with an approx wheelbase of only 7-8 feet and weighs around 5-600 lbs. Would fit in a pickup truck bed. Does not run,but rolls easily. Will pay $600.00 for the haul. Thanks! George Albright,Ocala,Fla. cell 352 843 1624 email gnalbright@gmail.com

PS Speaking of a speedster body,does anyone have a pair of teens metal bucket seats,a speedster cowl,and/or a period oval or round gas tank,to make a speedster body on this car,like on a 1914-15 Metz,Overland,Hudson,etc.to show off the rear friction drive setup? Leads appreciated. George email; gnalbright@gmail.com

Dear Joe: I can find a period touring body like was originally on it,or as you said on the AACA Horseless Carriage Forum on this subject,just put a speedster cowl and bucket seats on it,to show off the rear friction drive setup. Will consider both. Does anyone out there have a pair of teens metal bucket seats,and or a speedster cowl and oval or round gas tank,like on a 1914-15 Metz,Overland,Hudson,etc? Please see the orange 1914 Metz speedster I donated to the Don Garlits Museum at www.garlits.com This is how it should probably be set up to display the rear friction drive setup. Good Thought! George

Dear Dave: Kelsey is no relation to the wheel Hayes. Dear Ivan Your grasp of obsure and complete automotive subject matter NEVER ceases to amaze me!! I got with the car the 1960 HCCA March April issue on Kelsey. However I only got 2 pages from another early Kelsey article,which SAH member Kit Foster,who has a complete set of The Automobilists,immediately recognized as part of a 1955 forty plus page The Automobilists article,written by Keith Marvin. Kit is getting me a complete copy of that article. Kit bought most of Keiths stuff and because of our talking is going back to the son and daughter in Calif. and will try to buy the remaining file cabinets of Keiths that are stored in a storage bldg. in Nevada. Keith died in 2009. Hopefully he will be sucessful,to insure safety of all of Keiths work! I plan on fully researching and documenting it,and getting it to run. I can find a period touring body like was originally on it,or as someone said on the AACA Horseless Carriage Forum on this subject,just put a speedster cowl and bucket seats on it,to show off the rear friction drive setup. will consider both. Ivan,where in the USA might I get some of that stuff that you successfully put on your friction drive disc? THANKS for your wonderful insight! George