DavidMc

There are grease nipples on the 733 bearings that I have and they are also on both of my 633's. I wonder if the large "U" shaped brackets that support these bearings have been left off your car at some time. If that support was missing there would be a very high load on the flanges that have broken. BTW these parts look the same on my 633's . There were many more 6th Series cars so it could widen your search.

I have a 733 rear axle and just checked those parts, one is broken like yours the other seems OK. It must be a weakness with that model. Maybe Packard improved the design on the later models such as an 833. However I can help you with one. I am in Australia so if you can find the parts locally it would be better.

OK its time to "fess up" to one of the dumbest things I have done. Touring in our 1920's sedan in hot weather here in NSW Australia we experienced vapor lock on a long climb. Nothing unusual about that and I was prepared. The solution is a wet rag around the carb and the vacuum tank to get going and to add kerosene to the fuel to avoid a re-occurance. I had bought a 5 litre bottle of kerosene in anticipation. However the blue kerosene I normally use was out of stock so I got the clear stuff. No problem it should do the same. Only problem was I was carrying an identical 5 litre plastic bottle of water and sure enough in the rush to get going again I poured the 5 litres of water into the fuel tank. It sure stopped the vapor lock but some hours later after draining large amonts of water and fuel we got going again. Still haunts me!

Bernie, Good luck with the op, glad you enjoyed the road test, as you can see the Packard is a very different car to your Lagonda. The filming continues delayed by rain. David

Bernie, Do you have a copy of the "Service Parts List" for the Packard Six ? Pages 40A, on give information about cable sizes, colors, lengths conduits and terminals etc. Most of the wiring seems to be black. Let me know if you need a copy. David

The lenses looks identical to those in my 1922 Packard First Series 6 and the writing is the same. The visible portion of the lens on the Packard is 8" diameter. The shell of your headlights are nothing like the Packard. Hope that helps.

Teknosmurf, I have just read this thread after being out of action for a while and I am surprised that no one seems to have mentioned the problem of vapor lock. I run cars of the 1920's that have no rubber components and are not sensitive to grade of fuel however it is my perception along with many other owners of old cars that the ethynol containing fuels are more prone to vapor lock suggesting that they have more lower boiling point fractions. However I have no hard evidence of this and your device would not be a cost effective solution for that problem (if in fact ethynol is the cause) when a simple inexpensive electric fuel pump in parallel with the original fuel supply system, activated only when needed solves the problem. Just my 2 cents worth.

Bernie, I guess you already know this but just in case, the belting on the Gabriel snubbers has shim brass between each layer where it bwraps around the centre to reduce friction and allow the webbing to recoil. I used very thin spring stainless steel on mine because I had the material. Teflon might also work well, the shim brass on my originals had lots of fatigue cracks. David

I have 3 cars of the 1920's and they are now all completely reliable apart from occasional vapor lock and overheating in very hot weather. I have totally restored each one and they took some sorting out when first put back on the road. We recently covered 3,700 kms in one with no problems. The others have done similar trips. Each car is unmodified, restored back to as it was when new with no upgrades. As others have said you have to get to know everything about your car and bring it back to as new condition. As for reliability when new, when I was a child our family car was a 1929 De Soto. This car was driven for many years with no problems. It certainly required more maintenance than modern cars and was a slower but it never let us down. I do not recall significant reliability issues with cars that were in good condition. Reliability issues are genearally due to the car not being in top condition. There is no magic wand, everything needs to be checked and repaired as required but its worth it, stay with it.

Me too, I have not been able to open any of the attachments and I am not using an Apple, must be because I also have Packards!! Anyone else having a problem? David

Bernie, I came across the following regarding your question about the number of different body styles for the First Series cars: "...Packard controlled the output of its 2 body makers, one of which was Pullman Company. in 1921 and '22 this firm had orders for 13,655 bodies for all 126 - 133 series cars except the 7 passenger sedans and limousines. The breakdown is rather interesting in that it indicates the relative numbers of various closed and open cars to wit: 5 passenger Touring, 5685; 7 passenger Touring 3820; Runabout 700; Sport Model 450; four passenger Coupe 1550; 5 passenger Coupe 450; five passenger Sedan 1000; 10,655 open cars, 3000 closed. These orders did not cover all of the 126 -133 production which totalled 26,560 for the full term, about 16 months." Reference "Packard A History of the Motor Car and the Company" by Beverly Rae Kimes. (Page 231 First Edition) Not help in tracking down the history of your car but it is a small part of the jig saw puzzle. David

Bernie, I have a few spares that you are welcome to, I will put them in the mail in the next day or two. David

Bernie, I understand your desire for information about the history of your 126. I would also like to know the history of my 126 but despite having owned it for about 35 years and knowing its last resting place I have not been able to find anything. Most of the early Ira Berk Australian delivery records are lost and I guess the same applies to US delivered cars however to put the problem in context the Kimes History of Packard (page 806) gives the 126 production figures as: 1922 - 7,685 units, 1923 - 10,496, so the chances of tracing one of those is slim. I hope you get lucky somebody must know about yours! David

Bernie, Yes the toe in is 1/8" however one of the quirks of this Packard and others of the 1920's that I have worked on, is that they do not have left and right hand threads on the tie rod so to set the toe in you need to turn one of the tie rod ends one full turn either way until you get it as close as possible but I have always found the final turn takes it just past or not quite to the required setting, all in accordance with Murphy's Law. I don't think its that critical. The bump stop surrounds on mine were painted black originally. David.

Bernie, In case you do not have the original specifications for the front axle, when it is straightened it needs to set up as follows, to ensure correct steering geometry: Forward inclination of the king pin to the vertical: 3 degrees. Sideways inclination of the kingpin to the vertical: 0 degrees, (ie KPI is 90 degrees to the axle pads. My front axle was badly bent and I had it straightened in accordance with the above and it steers and tracks very well. David McCredie

Bernie, Don't know what happened with that last post, I tried to attach this we site: Welcome

Bernie, Original die cast vac tank tops have been a problem for me in the past, hairline cracks and the brass inserts at the valve seats leaking causing loss of vacuum. I now always fit a new reproduction top available from Glen Smith in Brisbane . Welcome

Thanks to those responses, replying to each. Rusty your explanation of the early fuels far from boring me is a subject that has always been of interest. My main interest was because of the vapor lock problems but also to understand any other effects on early engine design. Some time ago on a Forum I referred to the followingweb site and it is relevant to this topic <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/australia/corporate_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/f/Fuel_news_modern_petro_vintage_engines.pdf If that does not work google "BP MODERN PETROL IN VINTAGE ENGINES" If I change the valve timing it will be with new cams, The original camshaft will always be available to refit especially if the changes don't work which is likely. It will also be the first time I have attempted to modernise an old car, all previous projects have been to restored "warts and all" This is my first venture into a brass era car and it is a nuisance to drive with modern traffic. If the valve timing could be improved to allow it to climb modest hills in top gear instead of low gear at about 5 mph then it would be better. Besides the topic is interesting, I have learned something already! CBen,the car has 2 cam lobes pinned to the shaft so the shaft can be withdrawn, its an "L" head side vale twin horizontally opposed engine. jdome, so the early Cadillacs had variable valve timing which is how all modern cars work except that the Cadillac used instead of a throttle valve in the carb, very interesting. These Brass cars are certainly interesting in understanding the development of automotive engineering.

Rusty, I forgot to comment on the use of 25% kerosene. I have used this in 1920's cars to to overcome vapor lock problems. I am intrigued, why would it give improved low speed torque in a brass era car? Is it because it is more like the fuel these cars were designed for? If this is so then that implies that modern fuel does not suit these old low compression cars. I am not aware of any problems with modern fuel in the old low compression cars, part from vapor lock problems. I would be interested in the reasons behind this suggestion.

Rusty, I like the idea of using a compression gauge to measure the best cam setting to determine maximum filling of the cylinder. Its a static test, the results may not apply entirely to the dynamic conditions when the engine is running but its a lot better than just trial and error. The cams on my car are pinned to the shaft so it is possible to remove the pin and tap a thread for a grub screw to allow the cam positions on the shaft to be temporarily changed. It would also be possible to test a promising setting with the engine running by temporarily locking the cam to the shaft with the screw plus high strength Loctite. This could be released with heat. All of this is about whether the original factory valve timing is best for the car - and it may well be. I am seeking improved performance under the normal low speed use of the car. Its not about increased high speed use. The car has been mechanically rebuilt has strong compression, good spark and I have tried it with both a modern carburetor and the original. I have experimented with changed ignition timing and found the original setting of about 25-30 deg BTDC works best when running . Retarding this at low revs when climbing makes little difference. In response to your comments about brass era cars in general, this car already runs well at low revs but it has very poor hill climbing ability compared to other cars of the same era. Thanks for the comments, I will report any findings.

I would be interested to know whether the valve timing on the early brass era cars can be improved by changing the timing of the valve opening and closing. I guess it comes down to a question of whether the "state of the art" available to the manufacturers at the time was optimum for the particular engines or whether later knowledge would allow us to modify the timing to advantage. For example, the timing of the inlet valve opening directly affects volumetric efficiency (getting as much fuel into the cylinders as possible). Modern engines have the inlet valves opening much earlier than the old ones. This is no doubt due to many factors such as combustion chamber design, number of valves, fuel injection, increased engine operating RPM, and possibly improved fuel. I have no interest in modifying for increased speed but I would like a little more low speed torque so that I am less of a nuisance to modern traffic on the hills. I hope others with experience in this area will comment and if it is feasible, how to go about determining the improved valve timing. Trial and error?

Bernie, I am compelled to respond to avoid giving the wrong impression. My comments about time taken to restore where a little"tongue in cheek". I love restoring cars too in fact more so than driving them although we do both, the 10 to 15 year period that I spent on each of my 3 cars were all while working and performing all the other domestic duties that families entail. When I retired I had a project (1929 Packard Sedan basket case) that I doubted I would ever complete but working on it full time I finished it very quickly. I am now trying to break this "addiction" and have resisted getting another project for now. My better half says it won't last!! Maybe gardening is the way to go!! David

Bernie, The Series One cars did not have the Bijur lubrication system which in my opinion is a good thing. I have it on my 1929 Roadster and spent a lot of time setting it up, making sure there were no leaks and that oil was flowing to each point. I also made sure that each point had the correct "dripper" but now after a few years I suspect that a few positions only are getting most if not all of the oil. If I were to do another car with a Bijur system I would use synthetic self lubricating bushes every where possible (such as spring bushes)and block off the lube system to those points. Your restoration is progressing extremely well, how come my projects each take 10 to 15 years and yours seem to take the same amount in months? David

The toe board on my 1922 Packard 126 showed no evidence of any paint or polishing when I restored the car many years ago, I also had a couple of spare toe plates that were the same, natural finish. The Packard "Facts Book" for this model simply states " Inclined floor board and accelerator foot rest is an aluminum casting" which also implies no special finish. I had mine bead blasted to preserve the original finish, it still looks fine .

My 1929 Packard 633 has very good brakes for its era and they are the same as your 640. I suggest you go to the "Packard Information" web site where you will find an excellent article on adjusting Packard Bendix Brakes. You can do it yourself preferably with a helper and basic tools. If they are still poor then I would strongly suspect that your car has the wrong lining material probably moulded linings that are only suitable for use with hydraulic brakes . Mechanical brakes cannot generate enough pressure for this material to grip. Mechanical brakes require softer higher friction woven linings. I got mine from a company that supplies friction materials for industrial and auto applications. Keep us posted.