ron hausmann

Based on my experience actually buying several cars from this early 1920’s era, you should be able to get $10,000 to $12,000 for this rare, running, but non-CCCA Classic vehicle. Ron Hausmann P.E.

Yes - these Kissel models definitely used non-skids I’m rears and smoothie on fronts as per original factory documents and pictures. Looks a little goofy but actually very very correct. ron

Nope - I doesn't fit with my nickel-era Kissels. I bought it when I was in college (1970) from the ORIGINAL and drove it on expressways. Been sitting since 1984. Will sell it for $8500. RON

Licespray, You are getting some really great and sage feedback! I feel I need to add my two cents worth, insofar as I undertook several "lost cause" cars which also were orphan makes like you current candidate-car. Here are some personal observations that I volunteer to you; 1. ENJOYMENT -You can heartily enjoy a few years of restoration (wood carving, painting and sanding, parts scrounging, etc. FAR more than driving the finished product. I have finally realized that for me at least, I enjoy restoring Kissel Kars more than driving or showing them when done. That's a very hard thing for some of us to admit but others above have intimated this also. It's true!. 2. EXOTIC MAKE RESTORATION - Your candidate car is a rare one. For these weirdo-makes with impossible-to-find parts, you'll have to adlib. But with perseverance you will find clubs with parts, or machinists who enjoy old cars, or "stuff that will work". And you are apparently handy. One nice thing about these rare cars is that you can usually adlib and make improper parts work perfectly, and nobody will ever know. (I use modern pistons, pins, valves, and rods in my Kissels - they run better but never can be detected!) 3. COST - DaveMc in an earlier post here, offered you some great advice on cost which is in my opinion, spot on! You will spend $50,000 - $80,000 to perfectly restore this car. But in todays dollars, you might then be able to sell it for only $30,000 - $40,000. Not a money maker. But then - - - What is the value to you of years of relaxation doing the restoration and then sharing it with your family and friends ? My restorations make years, decades of family memories! 4. DETERMINATION - I never did a Sleeve-valve engine, but when I started doing Kissels, I had never done one either. Restoring these old ones kind of restores one's faith in one's own ability. Here are before and after pictures of my current challenge, the only existing 1918 Kissel Kar, Model 6-38 Gibraltar Sedanlette. It has a removeable carved wood black top and converts to a 4-passenger roadster. I carved the wood Thanks for letting me comment. RON HAUSMANN P.E.

All - As of January 23, 2019, I'm readying Kissel for transport to the my engine rebuild subcontractor, St. Claire Engine, for installation of the completed powerplant next week. Have also finished dozens of small, important details on the car body and wiring. These included trimming the trunk, finishing tail wiring, fitting windows and window channels, and bumper mount adjustments. I chose delay the installation of the Houk wire wheels as well as the side windows, until I have the car with engine back at my shop. Unfortunately the car is so tall at 85", that it won't fit into my enclosed trailer, so I must transport it on my open hauler. the less parts at risk for road wear, the better!. Here are current pictures. RON

All - Went to visit my kids and grandchildren who live in Shanghai China this week. While there, we went to the “China Auto Museum”. As a pretty weathered car enthusiast, I was very impressed with their presentation and hundreds of cars. They present the automotive history of Shanghai, which necessarily includes at least half of their cars as USA made. Every one of them appeared to me to be 99-100 point restorations. Auburn’s, Bentley’s, Fords, Buick’s, Packards, Lasalkes, Jeeps, Lancias, Lamborghini’s, Rolls, as well as many Mao-vintage Chinese made things I’ve never heard of. I know only a few of our forum readers will ever make it to Shanghai, but if you do, this exhibition is a must-see! Ron Hausmann P.E.

Stylishone - The M1 Concourse in Pontiac Michigan is a secure car community of 240 car-condominiums in Pontiac Michigan, interspersed around a 1.5 mile race track. You should google it. I suggest you contact the ownership there if you are srperiously considering a car condominium type effort. They sold out very fast and original owners have condominiums that turned into excellent investments as well. This complex is open to all car enthusiasts so we have Lamborghini’s, Corvettes, Porches, Kissels, Studebakers, Harley’s, hot rods and anything car around. The track is regulated for running like cars at a time - my Kissels can’t quite keep up with the Lamborghini s. Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.

Lycoming 8 ? Several different block sizes in late 1920's and 30's Carb mount could be for a Schebler Duplex ?

Leroy, Your pictures are of two very different models of Kissl Gold Bugs. Apples and oranges. The top picture is the body in progress of a Model 6-45 Bug, probably mid 1921 to mid 1923 which used the same body paneling. BOTH of the openings in the rear are trunks. Yes two trunks. I have two such cars. The lower trunk has the raw wood cover frame sitting in it for fitment. The bottom picture is of a Model 6-55 Kissel Gold Bug trunk from a likely 1924 car. Different car. In 1925 these were fitted as rumble seats. The wheelbase of Model 6-45 cars are longer than the Model 6-55’s. And the engines are a bit less powerful with different crankshafts and strokes. thanks, Ron

Leroy, The small openings on each side behind the passenger compartment are for the "suicide seat" drawers. These outrigger seats slide in and out and are unique to the Kissel Gold Bug. This layout was correct for Kissels Model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedsters from 1919 to mid 1923. The two openings in the rear are two trunks found in cars 1919 to 1923 as well. From 1923 to early 1927, Kissel Gold Bugs used Kissel Model 6-55 engines, or Model 8-75 engines 1925 to 1927, or Model 8-65 engines in 1927. the suicide seats were discontinued in these later years and rumble seats were used starting in 1925. Below are a picture of a 1923 Kissel Gold Bug Speedster, Model 6-45 (with the seats), and a 1925 Kissel Gold Bug Speedster Model 6-55 (with rumble seat and golf clubs). I personally think the 1922 and 1923 Model 6-45's are the most beautiful Bugs out there If you are going to build one of these, or try to replicate in some degree, the frames, wheelbases, and framing are very different. RON

Leroy, One critical design feature that your "dream speedsters" all share, is that their hoods and cowls are all "racer-cut". The term "racer-cut" means that the hood's horizontal lines all carry thru the cowl to the passenger compartment. NO window pillars. I know of a person who was considering turning a Kissel Sedan into a speedster, only to run into this issue. Speedster cowls are nearly always different and much more sleek than their contemporary sedan siblings. Your Hupmobile cowl will suffer this same challenge and not be able to be used. You will probably have to frame and fabricate a speedster cowl. Take care, RON Leroy, There are precious few Kissel factory photos, and essentially no Kissel blueprints nor factory records extant, as nearly all such documentation was lost when the plant changed hands multiple times during the Depression. However there are a few folks who have built wood framing for Kissels. There is a gentleman in Washington who has built all the wood for a 1922 Kissel Gold Bug, and another person in California who built the rear section wood for a 1924 Kissel Gold Bug. I suggest that you contact the Wisconsin Automotive Museum to see if they can put you in touch with these experts. Or you can inspect existing Gold Bugs to replicate the wood framing members. Kissel used Oak and Ash for their cars. Aluminum was used for Gold Bug bodies and hoods, with fenders being steel. For some reason that I've never found, each piece of wood was numbered the same as the car body number (vin). I have a basket-case Kissel Gold Bug body and doors that I would sell but not cheap. Also a spare Speedster windshield and some trim. No cowl though. Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.

All - IMO, time of year issues average out to irrelevant. Many, if not most serious buyers would have their own tow vehicle and trailer, or access to an on-call service for a thousand or so dollars anywhere. If you want to sell it, sell it as soon as possible. IMO only. Ron

Another observation for evaluation. The Velie also appears to be a “Deluxe” Model with bracketing for side-mounted spares both sides. That makes it more attractive as well. Ron

Keileen, the buick and studebaker are relatively common makes and you can easily search recent pricing sales on the internet. As to the modern tires and possibly drivetrain, you might find as many buyers out there for hot-Rodded antiques as you find for purist cars. I know my 1927 chevys would be worth more or even double with a big block V8 dropped into them, rather than as originals. Just different groups of enthusiasts. the Velie is a wonderful car, even as an undone project. I run into pricing challenges all the time buying Kissel Kars which are also rare. Rare cars have even rarer numbers of buyers. But there are a surprising number of folks out there who want to buy rare full classics. I would think you could advertise that Velie in the CCCA magazine and this AACA website for 15,000 or 18,000 as is, and you might snag a buyer quickly quickly. It is a true CCCA classic and a really pretty Model. my thoughts. God luck. Ron Hausmann P.E.

Thanks Paul. i googled 1922 Hudson and sure enough, this stovepipe rig is pictured in the Hudson engine images. I’ve never seen this type and the car was in North Carolina, a lot more warm than Wisconsin! ron hausmann p. e.

Here are pics of Kissel Model 6-38 engine ready to be put into the Kissel Sedanlette. It certainly is a pretty thing! Ron

Any dimensions on this please? Could work on a number of cars - - RON

All - As of yesterday December 14, 2018, this engine runs and fired up immediately. Very cool ! We will tune it next week. Car itself is prepped for the engine. Might install it yet this year. I made a video of the engine taking its first powerful breaths, but AACA posting size limit doesn't allow me to post the video here - too big. Thanks, RON

Thanks Greg - the carb is an original and correct Stromberg Os-2. ron

All, I recently bought a 1925 Kissel Model 6-55 car with a supposedly original 6-55 engine, but the engine is equipped with a funky carburetor air intake, shown in the pictures. See the balls on the over-engine pipe work. I think it might be for preheating carb intake air. This fitting is not standard nor found on other Kissel cars. Have any of you seen this fitting before? Is it aftermarket? And the information about this? What is this? Thanks, Ron

Look at the chains ! When one of the cross links comes loose, as almost always happened, you would beat the crap out of your fenders. Ron

Hey LCK, In my opinion, a true “Speedster” needs to possess most of the following attributes to be distinguished from a project-car-wannabe. I’m defining your speedster as a luxury sports car, not a cut down car made for racing or rat-rodding around. A Kissel Gold Bug after 1922, a Paige Daytona Speedster, a Daniels Speedster, a Mormon Wasp, a Stutz Bearcat, or a Mercer Speedster are what I think you may be envisioning. 1) rear deck of body needs to be sleek, not boxy. A bumble-back Like a Kissel, a special tire mount rear like a Marmon Wasp or Stutz, or sleek like a Paige Daytona speedster. 2) doors need to be “racer- cut” which means cut down below cowl level. Or no doors as was common. 3) trim needs to be “pimped out”, more dressy than other of that marque’s roadsters or sedans. A lot of nickel. 4) wire wheels. Most came with wood wheel or wire wheel options but very very few were not upgraded to dressy Buffalo or Houk wires, to the nuance he sleekness. 5) no running boards. Step plates were used on many up scale speedsters. 6) two passenger base car - or a two passenger with suicide or rumble seat. Not a four passenger body. my opinions. Good luck. Ron Hausmann P.E.

Agree. Run with the first type. Ron

Dom, - I run my 1927 Chevrolet and ALL of my Kissels on vacume tanks. They are trouble free if they are correctly installed without air leaks and b) without damaged parts. When the vent hole opens, that means that the float is up and/or the needle valve at the bottom is open. That then means no gas id being sucked and the engine will die. The first things I would check in your case is a) are the springs working or are they sprung ? New springs are available and cheap. b) does the float armature smoothly rise without binding? c) is the bottom needle valve seating completely? A bent shaft can cause the needle valve to unseat intermittantly Worn springs r armature can bind the float n the up position and starve the engine. A air leak in your top seals or canister(s) can violate the required vacume. Hope this helps. RON

All - here are pictures of the completed engine. Will fill it with f.uids and test run it on Tuesday December 4, 2018. All the fittings are original. The spark plug loom and carburetor breather are brass and could be either brass or bake lite in original guise. We were. Dry lucky to find the correct rent generator, coil, and distributor combination. Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.