Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Breaking news on ethanol


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Restorer32

Restorer32

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,913 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:45 AM

The European Union is set to vote this week to eliminate subsidies for bio-fuel production. There is now consensus among European scientists that bio fuels are not as environmentally friendly as once thought.
1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
1948 Buick Woody
1931 Model A Tudor
:o All unrestored, shoemaker's kids, you know?

Senior Master Judge 87 Credits

#2 Dave@Moon

Dave@Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,297 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:07 PM

EU to Limit Use of Crop-Based Biofuels: Scientific American

Here's the original article regarding a draft proposal by the European Union, which if adopted, will take place in 2020. Read the whole article. Lest anyone think the action is a repudiation of ethanol:

If confirmed, the rules are expected to boost European consumption of ethanol, which currently accounts for just over 20 percent of the EU biofuel market, compared with biodiesel's 78 percent share.


"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."--Issac Asimov

"Whisper words of wisdom"--Paul McCartney

#3 Restorer32

Restorer32

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,913 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:49 PM

All I know is the morning news headline I read saying they intended to vote this week to end subsidies based on new scientific consensus that bio fuels are not as environmentally friendly as thought. End the subsidies and it may not be economically feasible to produce these fuels.
1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
1948 Buick Woody
1931 Model A Tudor
:o All unrestored, shoemaker's kids, you know?

Senior Master Judge 87 Credits

#4 Restorer32

Restorer32

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,913 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:03 PM

From the article you cite above. "The policy U-turn comes after EU scientific studies cast doubt on the emissions savings from crop based fuels..." If that isn't a repudiation of ethanol what is it? Apparently the science of bio fuels is not as "settled" or "indisputable" as some want us to believe. Like solar and wind power bio fuels are in fact great solutions in search of a problem. If and when they become self supporting industries without taxpayer subsidy they may decrease our dependence on imported oil and help clean up the environment.
1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
1948 Buick Woody
1931 Model A Tudor
:o All unrestored, shoemaker's kids, you know?

Senior Master Judge 87 Credits

#5 Dave@Moon

Dave@Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,297 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:36 PM

If that isn't a repudiation of ethanol what is it?

..A repudiation of soy-sourced biodiesel (which for the sake of future transportation needs is probably worse news:(). Read it carefully, and remember this is Europe you're talking about..., where diesel cars hold a 45% market share.

And that link is this morning's big story, from the root source.

BTW, eliminating subsidies for agricultural ethanol by 2020 should be almost meaningless, in Europe and everywhere else. With commercial cellulosic ethanol coming on line already this year, it should (unless something goes wrong) be the dominant source by then.
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."--Issac Asimov

"Whisper words of wisdom"--Paul McCartney

#6 R W Burgess

R W Burgess

    Super Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 12,404 posts
  • LocationMillers Tavern, Virginia

Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

.. With commercial cellulosic ethanol coming on line already this year, it should (unless something goes wrong) be the dominant source by then.


You should say..."Unless something goes right, Dave!"....like the use of Natural Gas to power everything. The price has already dropped with this product. All we need is for someone to make a decision to start using it instead of ALL food products to power this country!:)

#7 Restorer32

Restorer32

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,913 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:05 PM

Vehicles run just fine on natural gas or propane and the conversion isn't that difficult or expensive. Always amazed me why it isn't used more. Local propane supplier has run their fleet on propane since at least the 1970's.
1932 Packard 900 Conv Cpe
1955 Jaguar XK-140 Drophead
1948 Buick Woody
1931 Model A Tudor
:o All unrestored, shoemaker's kids, you know?

Senior Master Judge 87 Credits

#8 Dave@Moon

Dave@Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,297 posts

Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:29 PM

All we need is for someone to make a decision to start using it instead of ALL food products to power this country!:)

Wayne, Four years ago cellulosic ethanol existed only on paper and on laboratory benches. It has been manufactured in pilot plants for just the last 3 years, and the first commercial plant was just commissioned in Florida last month. It's hard to imagine a faster track for a bulk commercial product's development.

Watch for all the stops to be pulled out once commercial viability is demonstrated by these plants, and for every possible concession to be made to make it viable.

It's at that point, I'd guess 5-10 years from now, when we're really going to have trouble finding fuel for our antiques.:(
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."--Issac Asimov

"Whisper words of wisdom"--Paul McCartney

#9 NTX5467

NTX5467

    Sr Mbr -- BCA 20811

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,239 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 12:47 AM

Check www.allpar.com for details on the Ram pickup's CNG option, plus notation about specifics on changes to the HEMI engine to run it. Ford and GM are using "drop-in" Robert Bosch CNG units for their CNG-optioned pickups. All three units look highly similar, just that Chrysler is doing their's in-house on the assembly line.

CNG has been making inroads in the OTR diesels, too. Many fleets are using technology from Westport Innovations, on Cummins diesel engines. Fueling locations are being built by Clean Energy Fuels to support these OTR fleet rigs, plus ones for private fleets.

At the present time, two wind turbine projects are being built in Jack and Young counties in TX. Plus an older one in upper Palo Pinto County. Transmission lines are being built, too. Many of these ultra-rural land owners have or will benefit from these projects, just as the local schools have/will.

The City of Denton, TX was one of the first municipalities to use cooking-oil biodiesel in their diesel engines. This was about 10 years ago, when it was in its infancy.

Personally, I'd much rather have cooking-oil diesel than ethanol'd gasoline on the market.

Regards,
NTX5467

#10 Dave@Moon

Dave@Moon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,297 posts

Posted 12 September 2012 - 04:13 AM

Personally, I'd much rather have cooking-oil diesel than ethanol'd gasoline on the market.

Regards,
NTX5467

Sadly, we just don't eat enough Bloomin' Onions.;):P
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."--Issac Asimov

"Whisper words of wisdom"--Paul McCartney

#11 Vila

Vila

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:23 AM

I am not questioning anything discussed in this threat, but I do question the accuracy of websites like Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada.

For example there is a gas station located at 3635 Simpson Ferry Road, Camp Hill, PA listed on this sight that is said to supply ethanol free 89 octane. This station is approximately 1 mile from the brands gas terminal, which supplies gas to all their stations throughout central PA plus others. This is also the same terminal where my father worked as a truck driver and later dispatcher for over 30 years.

Although I may not know much about the chemistry of gasoline, I do know a bit about it's distribution. When you go to a specific brands gas stations, you can not even be guaranteed you are getting their brand of gas. For example, when a terminal is down for what ever reason, gas from a different brands terminal will supply the gas. In some parts of the US some name brands do not even distribute their own gas to their station, they subcontract it out to another brand to supply them.

Is this website trying to tell me the terminal keeps a secret stash of ethanol free 89 octane gas for this one station and that all the other station are supplied with gas containing ethanol. I doubt that.

I am not normally a fan of wikipedia, but read more on this topic at: Gulf Oil LP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vila
1933 Chevrolet
1962 Triumph TR4
1984 BMW 633 CSi

Edited by Vila, 17 September 2012 - 02:16 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users