One of the Last Hardtops Produced ??????

[Guest scout17]

I have long admired the Reatta but never had a purchase opportunity until 18 Nov.04., when a Red/Tan hardtop with sunroof & 81 K appeared in the Hagerstown, MD. newspaper, For Sale. Watching it appear for several weeks, I presumed it was a dog, but my old desire to see & drive one took over. I was impressed with the car right away & thought it would be a great commuter ride, so I made the purchase, without a clue of the true history behind Reatta. Other than a Carfax check. Today, a true Forum/Reatta advociate & professional person suggests that this 91 with Vin. # 1510 is near the end of the 91 production year/line. Given that information I would welcome any comments/observation by other knowledgable personnel, as to just how close to the "End of Reatta Fame", is this vehicle? Thanking you in advance for your assessment, observations & comments.

[JWC]

Try this site for info.

http://www.reatta.net/database.html

[Barney Eaton]

You have been directed to the Reatta database and you will notice the last assigned vin number was 901554. Your car is indeed fairly close to the end of production. You will also notice that the last 100+ cars were all red. Most have tan interior.

Please send me or post here additional information on your car. We need to know if the side molding is red or black, you mentioned it had a sunroof, but does it have the single disk CD player or 16 way seat option?

[Guest scout17]

Sir, Thank you for the information. 1510 has a suroof, single cd player, (antana & cd not working)& black side molding. No 16 way power seat. I'm the 3rd owner. All orginial owners/dealers delivery info (purchased in NJ) is intact within the Reatta Leather Binder/Book. Donut looks original & jack/lug wrench appear unused. A cloth car car was in the trunk. Is that an after market item or did it come with the car ?

[Shelby]

If it is a Hardtop it would be very Very Rare. I think there only Coupes and Convertibles.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Is this car a coupe or a convertable with a hard, removable top?

[reattadudes]

by definition, a coupe is a two door vehicle. a hardtop is a vehicle which has a permanent metal roof, but does not have a frame around the door glass.

so it looks like we have a hardtop coupe here, just as GM called it.

Mike

[padgett]

Just to complete the litanny, a coupe has two doors and front seats that fold forward while a sedan (saloon) typically has four doors and fixed seats while in the US a "business coupe" had no rear seat.

A hardtop has a fixed top but is styled to resemble a convertible (e.g. has no window frame that opens with the door) and can be two or four doors so you can have hardtop coupes and sedans (Coupe de Ville, Sedan de Ville).

GM often calls non-hardtops "pillared" coupes or sedans since they have a "B" pillar ("A" pillar is the widshield frame which the Reatta has an abundance of. The "C" pillar is behind the rear side window.

And then there are station wagons and shooting brakes...

[Guest Ranger]

Mike has exactly the right definition. Now for the trivia, what was the first true hardtop manufactured in the U.S.? The '63 Buick Riviera, mod. #4747, the top was hard, the doors were two, the glass was frameless.

[Barney Eaton]

When talking Reattas, there are only two body styles, coupe and convertible.

Now this "hardtop" thing. When Padgett said windows without frames, I think what he really ment was when the window was rolled down, there was no fixed frame around the top of the door. The post-war "hardtop" was usuall defined by as a car without a piller behind the front door and there was no fixed frame when the windows were rolled down. First came the two door hardtops then in the mid 50's the 4 dr hardtops.

The one that has me totally confused is when they refer to a car as a hardtop convertible..........it is either a hardtop or a convertible, not both.

Before you jump on me about Fords retractables, most people consider them just that...hardtops that retract. If it has a soft top that retracts, then it is a convertible.

Finally, the 1962 Corvair convertible was the first production car that had side windows without a metal frame that was attached to the glass to protect the glass edges.

[cpu]

If you look at the 61-62-63-64 Impalas, Catalinas, etc, in some of those years they came in at least two hardtop roof styles. I happen to think the best of the bunch was the 61 Impala 2 door hardtop with the * roofline (* is a GM marketing name, can't recall the name). This style has a sleek roof/rear window/C pillar line, with a thin C pillar and slanted rear glass.

Another style available was what I have heard called a "hardtop convertible", wherein the roofline meeting the deck had a more abrupt angle, with several creases in the metal simulating bows of a convertible top. The beltline cut and the angle of the roofline into the deck give the appearance that the roof is almost a separate piece, like a convertible. But this is an immovable metal hardtop roof.

In 1959, two hardtop rooflines come to mind - one, a sexy one with really thin C pillars and a very large back glass, and the other one, with the wrap-around back glass, seen often on 4-door hardtops - I've heard that roofline called a "flattop". The back edge of the roof overhangs the glass like a little visor.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Hard top convertables are cool. Some I can name are:

-the Ford retractable hard top (overly complex)

-Honda Civic Del Sol (I don't like imports)

-90's Ford Mustang (really rare in this form)

-K5 Blazer, Jimmy, Bronco (well kind of)

[padgett]

See here for 1955 production and here (about half way down) for the 1953 Motorama hardtops. Ferd was in production in 1954 .

There is a tickle in the back of my memory about someone who used the 812 Cord dies after ACD went bust but not at home again.

ps thought I was clear that a hardtop had no "B" pillar. Guess was rong.

[reattadudes]

the first recognized hardtop is the 1949 Cadillac Coupe deVille. it was referred to as a "hardtop convertible" by GM, and had simulated bows on the rear of the outside of the roof, and chrome trim on the bows of the headliner inside.

it was followed in 1950 by the Chevrolet BelAir Hardtop, and the Pontiac Custom Catalina. Chrysler introdcued the Newport St.Regis hardtop later in 1950.

Ford was sound asleep concerning hardtops, and the 1949 body was too weak to support the roof with the pillars cut out. they hastily substituted the Crestliner, which was a two-door ("tudor" in Ford terminology) sedan with wild two toning, and a vinyl roof. their Victoria harrdtop debuted in 1952.

I always try to remain near the top of the pool in the "cesspool of knowlege and other useless information"

Mike

[ALF1]

Mike: With full acknowledgement that you are <span style="font-style: italic">the man</span> when it comes to automotive trivia, I actually have to take issue on one item.

In late '51 Ford actually did produce a full-on, pillarless hardtop, called the Victoria. Most of them were with the new Ford-O-Matic trans. I only know this to be a fact because my older brother bought one, spankin' new in two-tone blue and white, from Rohrman Ford in Hermiston, Oregon. Somewhere in my boxes of old photos is a shot of him standing proudly with the door open, sans window frame or pillar, and the quarter window cranked down.

He traded it in the following year when the new body style, an undisguised copy of the Olds 88 (check the rear fenders and taillights) debuted, offering Ford's first overhead valve V8.

Jerry

[Guest DTerry]

True...partly. Ford did make a hardtop convertible in 51. I once owned a 52 Victoria hardtop, but it was a 110 horsepower flat head V8 - with overdrive (remember the handle under the dash that you pulled out to disengage the overdrive?). Ford's overhead valve V8 engine didn't come along until 54.

[reattadudes]

Jerry,

I do stand corrected on the issue of the Victoria hardtop. I rechecked my source (Collectible Automobile), and you are right.

I need to come up out of the cesspool for air a little more often.

Mike

[ALF1]

Dave, you are right about the OHV; it <span style="font-style: italic">was</span> '54, and I stand corrected. And I sure do remember the little chrome OD handle. It was on the right hand side, and you had damn well better kicked the accelerator down to take it out of overdrive before pulling the handle. (If you remember, you could push it <span style="font-style: italic">in</span> anytime, and take your foot off the gas to let it kick into overdrive.) Ahhhh, memories of the '50 convertible....

<span style="font-weight: bold">-- ALF</span>

[sahein]

My 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme convertible has a B pillar.

[Vincent Vega]

The 'Classic' Aurora's(1995-1999) have frameless windows. They aren't a true hardtop because they have a 'B' pillar.

[Guest bkazmer]

my $.02

hardtops have no B-pillars above the belt line and a fixed top(4 door hardtops have a stub of a B-pillar between the doors unless the rears are suicide doors). The 49 DeVille/Holiday/Riviera get the credit, but Chrysler did it earlier but not in large volume. Of course, prewar there were custom bodies like this. There were also coupes which were convertible bodies with fixed tops, but I guess the blind quarter counts as a B-pillar (see Packard "shovelnose" Light 8 among others).