1972 Electra - another oddly equipped

January 2, 2007

Thanks Cent.... Actually, I didn't phone. I tried e-mailing again. I think I may have not sent the e-mail I had typed out. I was having a glitch with my e-mail round about that time and that may be what happened. If I do not get a response soon, I will call. I am assuming that they will want my credit card # to process the order?

Not to change the subject, but I wanted everyones opinion on this. Claims that it has been indoors since 1979-80. Its a 1976, but it has a rusty top and elsewhere. I think that a car that only saw 3 years of sun would have less rust around the window there and a better top? My 69' still has a decent top and it was only indoors the last 10 years.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-OLDS...1QQcmdZViewItem

Philippe Racicot · January 2, 2007

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Not to change the subject, but I wanted everyones opinion on this. Claims that it has been indoors since 1979-80. Its a 1976, but it has a rusty top and elsewhere. I think that a car that only saw 3 years of sun would have less rust around the window there and a better top? My 69' still has a decent top and it was only indoors the last 10 years.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-OLDS...1QQcmdZViewItem </div></div>

Maybe it spent it's indoor life in a place like this <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

http://www.natc-ht.com/Environmental_Chamber.htm

My '75 Electra has more than 4 times the mileage this car is supposed to have and it seems to be in much better shape too!

And the original plastic fillers are still there on mine.

January 3, 2007

LOL. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I think you are right!

Obviously this car was not exposed to the elements for only 3 years like the auction suggests. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

January 14, 2007

Thought I would post this. I like to post all super nice 71-76 GM cars I can find....

Here (ebay) is a 1976 Pontiac Bonneville Brougham 4dr with 381 actual miles..... super nice. All original, down to the original tires. New battery obviously.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-Pont...1QQcmdZViewItem

January 16, 2007

Here is one of interest.... its on Traderonline now.... a mint 73' Estate Wagon - very highly optioned, but NO 3rd seat. 41K miles, $12,900. I love it.

Philippe Racicot · January 16, 2007

It looks strange with blackwall tires!

January 17, 2007

OK,Tony,Brian,Philippe,and anyone else who wants to chime in here.This 73 Estate Wagon has been on Ebay for months and the guy can't sell it.Item #260076865615 i don't know how to link it but i'am sure you guys know which one i'am talking about.It's the one with the ASC sunroof in it down in Fla.What's wrong with this car that nobody wants it?Seems like a nice car to me so what am i missing here? Thanks Tom

Philippe Racicot · January 17, 2007

I don't know, it's not perfect but the <span style="font-style: italic">buy it now</span> price seems right. I like the ASC sunroof.

here's the link

January 21, 2007

Thanks Tom for posting! I have actually never even saw that wagon before. I must say its interesting! I have never seen one before with a sunroof. Forgive my ignorance, but what is "ASC"? Some sort of a company that specialized in customizing cars back then? I must say its a neat addition. I also notice that it has the vinyl top. I also noticed the lack of cruise control on this wagon.

Its nice, but I think what is hurting it gravely is the color. I really do not care for that dark color, especially that "three tone" appearance. The light color top, dark body color and then the woodgrain. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I agree with Philippe - the BIN $ seems very decent. I have seen similar Chevrolet wagons of this era sell easily at this price on e-bay. I am also surprised that this car has not sold.

I remember recently, this 72' Grand Safari wagon sold for $6100 on e-bay if I recall: It had something like 59K actual if I recall. Note the bias-ply tires. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think it was a fairly LOW optioned wagon- which was rare for the Grand Safari (based on the mid-line Bonneville in 72'). I think the only options were A/C, tinted windows, luggage rack, AM radio, woodgrain and bumperstrips.

And I think the Buick here is as nice as this Pontiac is.

However, seems like the 73's prices decline often. This 73' Safari only brought about $2900 if I recall...

Thanks again for posting that neat Estate Wagon!

January 21, 2007

ASC was the American Sunroof Company.I don't know if they were exclusive to Buick or did all GM's. My 74 Riviera GS has a thick padded 1/2 white vinyl top that was put on by the ASC company.I have the original dealer invoice that shows were the dealer sent it out to have it done.Another interesting option on my car is two antennas from the dealer.It came with the factory one in the windshield and the guy had the dealer put an electric one on the car also.This is also documented on the dealer invoice. Tom

January 21, 2007

ASC did work for other OEM's beside GM. I worked at a Linc-Merc dealer from '73 until '86 and many of the sunroofs, T-Tops and convertible Ford products were done by ASC.

January 24, 2007

Thanks Tom and Tom for that info!

January 24, 2007

Here is one of my favorite cars of this era of GM cars.... someone just happened to post one on the Pontiac site....

Extremely highly optioned 1971 Grand Ville 2dr hardtop - black on black (which is rare) I have seen a few Electras of this era that are black on black, but not many Grand Villes....

It is a very nice car... not only it being a 71', but also the colors are terrific. It is also an extremely high optioned car as well. <span style="font-weight: bold">Power windows, power locks, power seat, power trunk release, tilt wheel, cruise, AM-FM w/8-track, auto-climate control A/C, vinyl top, cornering lights, gauge package, side moldings, "custom" interior option</span> , etc. Looks like about the only options it lacks are the bumper gaurds and the bumper protective strips, which really would not look that good on this car I do not think.

A nice one to say the least!

Here is a link to Black beauty:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...p;rd=1&rd=1

January 24, 2007

Nice car but it needs white walls and road wheels. i think that would really set the triple black off.Tom

January 24, 2007

I was thinking the exact same thing..... At least whitewalls.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice car but it needs white walls and road wheels. i think that would really set the triple black off.Tom </div></div>

January 24, 2007

This is my first post! I love Studebakers and own a '63 Lark Daytona Skytop with factory Avanti power, but I grew up on GM and absorbed all of the new car brochures like a sponge!

I like '71 and '72 full-size GM cars too, and specifically remember thinking that the Pontiac looked better than the '70 (although in all the GM full-size lines in '71 it seemed they shot their whole budget on the exterior...it seems like quality of interior materials and luxury weren't quite what they were in '70).

That's a nice Grand Safari. You said it was based on the mid-line Bonneville. I agree the interior door trim is that of a Bonneville, but Grand Safari seats were straight from the Grand Ville. Bonnevilles of '71 and '72 shared seat trim with the Catalina Brougham and did not have a pull-down center armrest like the Grand Ville and Grand Safari did.

I, too, really liked that '71 Grand Ville hardtop in triple black on eBay. You almost never see (or saw) that Custom Cloth interior...what was basically the "Brougham" in '70 and before.

That car is begging for whitewalls! The factory Pontiac Rally Wheels were available on the big '71 cars, which would have looked nice too. Also, it kills me that it has aftermarket body side moldings that don't go far back enough on the rear quarters. Those moldings were optional on all '71 big Pontiacs....if it were me and I repainted it and couldn't use the original moldings or couldn't find OEM replacements, I'd have just left them off. Little detail stuff like that kills me on an otherwise beautiful car! How could you remove them and not damage the paint job???

Got a question that no one ever seems to know an answer to: Does anybody besides me feel that there are more '72 big GM cars of every division that have survived, than '71's???!!! Why is that?

Thanks,

Bill

Centurion · January 24, 2007

63Stude, you are correct that more '72 full-size GM cars have survived than '71's, and the simple explanation is that significantly more '72's were produced. As you may recall, the United Auto Workers struck GM about the time that the '71 models were introduced in late September, 1970. The strike dragged on for 67 days, and it was not until early December, 1970 that '71 GM cars began arriving at the dealerships in significant numbers.

My parents planned to purchase a new '71 GM car (Buick Centurion or Electra 225) immediately after the introduction, but many dealers would not sell the few they had received prior to the strike. (We even looked at Pontiac Grand Ville 2-door hardtops.) My parents finally obtained a '71 Centurion coupe on December 17, 1970, and this was the first '71 full-size Buick in my hometown of 10,000 people. The local folks who had ordered new Buicks and Oldsmobiles during the strike did not receive their cars until March or later of 1971.

I'm glad you've found our forums here, and hope you'll continue to participate in the conversation!

January 25, 2007

Thanks Brian, I think I do remember the strike now that you mention it!

Our town had under 10K people also; I remember a (urine-like!) light green metallic '71 Impala Custom Coupe in the dealer's showroom on '71 introduction night, I'm almost certain. The strike must have happened after some '71's had been made--I guess you did indeed note that above!

My grandfather actually bought our dealer's first Vega in September '70! I seem to remember that Vegas were scarce in '71 too compared with '72's. I think I remember that '72 Camaros were extremely scarce, however; that must have been due to a strike at the plant that made Camaros and Firebirds only.

Better get back on topic..Buicks!

I remember that either the '71 or '72 big Buicks in the brochure(s) were shown without bodyside moldings which I know were optional. I always remember thinking they looked cleaner without it, but you sure didn't see many real cars without them...the moldings were more practical of course!

Also...my grade-school guidance counselor, a rather hip thirty or so lady named Sara Nelson, had a new '69 Wildcat Custom hardtop coupe with Buick chrome wheels and bucket seats and console. It was dark green with a vinyl top and had a front license plate that said "Phooey!" Nice car. I saw that bucket seats were available in the '70 Wildcat Custom per the brochure (unlike '70 big Chevys or Pontiacs) but have never seen a real one. Has anybody else?

Back to '71's...I always liked that Turquoise color. One-year only, right? For some unexplicable reason, I like the louvered trunks better than the '72's without.

I wondered why they called the Centurion hardtop coupe, the "Formal Coupe"? It had the same roofline as the LeSabre! Another one of those inexplicable things I guess! I could see calling the Electra 225, the "Formal Coupe".

Bill

Centurion · January 25, 2007

63Stude, now you've got me going!

I own the '71 Centurion coupe today that my folks bought back in December, 1970, and one of the aspects of the car that I particularly like is that it lacks the protective side molding. Most of the cars were equipped with this option, but the cars look cleaner and sleeker without them. Since mine is an early production '71, it has more louvers in the deck lid than the later production '71's. In fact, the change was made extremely early in 1971 production. While we know with certainty that the B-Body Buicks had this running change, I believe that all GM B- and C-Body cars were affected.

Regarding the Formal Coupe designation for the Centurion 2-door model, the roofline is the same as the LeSabre, but the Centurion had a standard vinyl roof covering and a smaller rear window than the LeSabre. Although executed differently, you'll see that Olds produced something similar with the '71/'72 Delta 88 Royale; the roofline is somewhat unique compared to the standard Delta 88.

You are indeed correct that some '71 model GM cars had been shipped to the dealers in advance of the strike, but the numbers were low, and the strike took a huge bite out of '71 model year production.

Buick called that turquoise color Twilight Turquoise. It was a one-year-only color, and was very beautiful. Smartin here formerly owned a '71 LeSabre sedan in this stunning color.

By the way, yes, I distinctly remember seeing at least one 1970 Wildcat coupe at the Salem, Oregon dealership (as a used car) with the bucket seat interior.

January 25, 2007

Hello and welcome! You are right! Those were the standard seats that were in the Grand Ville for 71'-72'. The reason I say based on the Bonneville, is that I have read that the 71-72 Grand Safari was in Bonneville trim. I honestly have no idea. The Catalina Brougham was very rare. Many other GM fans do not even know it existed. I think it was only offered in 71 and 72.

I guess when they said 72' Grand Safari was a Bonneville wagon, they meant the Bonneville door panels rather than seats when they mentioned that. Then for 73' it mentions that the Grand Safari is based on the Grand Ville, which I do not understand, because I still do not think that they have the Grand Ville door panels or seats. For 73' the Grand Ville's standard and optional seating changed. I think vinyl remained standard and there was a "custom cloth", which is what my 73' Grand Ville had. Unfortunately, my seats were recovered it seems back in the 80s, but looks like the original cloth is still under there and in good shape. I have no idea why the original owners would recover the seats on a 80K, garage kept car? The door panels also changed for 73'. The Grand Ville added a larger piece of faux wood trim on the door panel than the 72's had. You have me wondering now, so I e-mailed someone with a 73' Grand Safari (photo below) to see if it indeed has the Grand Ville or Bonneville door panels. I really need to find my factory sales brochures I suppose. I noticed the photo here, where my car also happens to be posted:

73' Grand Safari - extremely highly optioned- including vinyl top:

http://www.classicpontiacs.com/seventies/b-bodies/1973/index.html

You should be able to see in this photo I took of my interior of my 73' Grand Ville a few years ago that the front seat is not the original material. The "custom" interior had a brocade type pattern.

Also, you can see that door trim I was referring to that I do not think the Grand Safari had.... like I said, you have me wondering now.... <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Yeah - Brian is right- there were many more 72s made, then for the most part... more 73s made than 72s.

Thanks again for posting and welcome!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a nice Grand Safari. You said it was based on the mid-line Bonneville. I agree the interior door trim is that of a Bonneville, but Grand Safari seats were straight from the Grand Ville. Bonnevilles of '71 and '72 shared seat trim with the Catalina Brougham and did not have a pull-down center armrest like the Grand Ville and Grand Safari did.

Bill </div></div>

January 25, 2007

Oh, and here is the interior photo of that "base" 73' Safari.

Notice it looks like that seat has been recovered as well. Also, note that it has the standard 2-spoke "plastic" steering wheel, which was even gone on the base Chevrolets the same year (73). Interesting that Pontiac held onto the wheel another year- however, I think that the LeSabre did as well? Correct me someone if I am wrong. Most Catalinas had the "custom cushion" wheel. I suppose its possible that this is the wheel out of a 71-72 model. I know that all years of the Grand Ville and Bonneville (71+) had the 3-spoke custom cushion wheel.

And here is the seat on a base 73' Grand Ville (with the vinyl)....

And here is one that is higher optioned and with the "custom" interior. However, this car in this photo is ragged out and you really cannot tell much about the custom cloth seat.

I will keep looking.

January 25, 2007

I agree 100%. I think the same can be said for the entire GM line for 71'. I also have a 69' Caprice sedan (same style as the 70' Bonneville you mentioned) and the interior build quality seems to be much higher than what my old 71' Caprice had.

While my 71' Caprice had some interior noises, my 69' Caprice is as quiet as a brand new car, despite its current ragged looks. The interior is still 100% squeak and rattle free. As tight as a brand new car... probably tighter. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Here is my old 1971 Caprice (PHOTO TAKEN in 1999)

and my current 1969 Caprice (taken early April 2006)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> lines in '71 it seemed they shot their whole budget on the exterior...it seems like quality of interior materials and luxury weren't quite what they were in '70). </div></div>

January 25, 2007

Brian, thanks for pointing that out about the Centurion Formal Coupe having a standard vinyl top and smaller rear window than LeSabres. I never knew that, but then didn't see many Centurions around our town either...mostly LeSabre Customs. Was the vinyl top standard on the Centurion Hardtop Sedan too?

Shaffer, thanks for the Pontiac pics...I thought they botched the big Pontiacs in '73...no, not just the bumpers which no make escaped, but changing to the square instrument bezels, and frankly, I hated the new wood inserts on the dash and doors of the Grand Ville. To my eyes, looked really cheap!

About build quality...I think I remember that in '71 the warranty was reduced to 12 months/12,000 miles, down from 3/36. I remember my Dad grumbling about then when we were looking at new Chevys. Your '71 Caprice looks more Caddy-like than a '69 or '70, but I think you'll note there was more hard plastic inside (lower door panels, black hard plastic around instruments and a black steering wheel) than on your '69. When a teenager, a friend's parents had both '70 and '71 Impalas. While I liked the exterior of the '71 better, I remember thinking...and the owners saying this too...that the '70 was so much better-built. I remember there was more color-keyed soft trim inside a '70, and better woodgraning, etc.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone, too!

Bill

January 25, 2007

Shaffer, a major apology is in order here! Sorry for the hackneyed comments about '73 big Pontiacs! I didn't see until later that you owned a '73 Grand Ville. Yours certainly looks in good shape in the photos. Again, sorry about that!

I think I could be interested in a '73 Bonneville two-door hardtop...the sportier roofline but also has the wide rocker moldings...and a pretty nice interior too!

I know this is the Buick forum, but I always thought it was funny that the only difference, really, between a Catalina Brougham and a Bonneville (in the early '70's) was the wheelbase, am I right? They had identical interior trim...guess the Bonneville did have wide rocker moldings. Same for Venturas and Executives in the '60's...looked nearly identical inside and out, but the Exec was built on the longer Bonneville wheelbase.

Bill

January 25, 2007

Shaffer,looks like you have almost a twin to the 73 buick wagon i posted about.

January 26, 2007

Are you referring to the 73' Grand Safari? I think you are, because the 73' Buick Estate wagon you mentioned is about the exact same color combo.... Didn't that Buick wagon also have a vinyl top that color?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaffer,looks like you have almost a twin to the 73 buick wagon i posted about. </div></div>

January 26, 2007

Same color vinyl top only it had a big hole in it. It's back on ebay again. The owner is a BCA member and i was wondering if he's seen this thread? Tom

January 26, 2007

You are right... I am more of a fan of the 71-72 Pontiacs interior.

You are also 100% correct about the interior difference on the 69-70 Chevrolets, versus the 71-72 Chevrolets (full-size). The 69-70s had more padding it seems and higher quality plastics, as well as the color-keyed steering wheel and column, even the Biscayne and Bel-Air for 69-70, whereas the 71-72's had the black steering wheel and column, even on the top of the line Caprice, which seemed very much out of place. We had an in depth discussion about this a few years ago. It was not until 1973, when Chevrolet switched over to color-keyed column and wheel, as well as being "custom cushioned", even on the base 73' Bel-Air, but strangely Pontiac carried on the hard plastic wheel on into 73' on the base Catalina, but it was color-keyed. I think that custom cushion wheel was optional. We think that the 71-72 Chevrolets kept the black wheel/column as a cost cutting measure.

I have some interior photos of my 71' Caprice somewhere that I would like to compare with my 69' Caprice... the ones of the 71' was from years ago and is low quality and only shows the passenger side. As you can see, my interior was ragged out. I remember there was alot of black trim on the lower driver dash, as where my 69' is color-keyed.

Here is my old 71's interior:

and the 69's interior: (WHICH I ALSO HAVE POSTED A FEW THREADS UP)

The doors also seemed to have a more luxury appointment to them, with more "woodgrain" trim.

Also, as mentioned, my 69' Caprice seems much better built than any 71-73 GM car I have owned- including my 72' Electra, which also seemed to be a very well built car.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Shaffer, thanks for the Pontiac pics...I thought they botched the big Pontiacs in '73...no, not just the bumpers which no make escaped, but changing to the square instrument bezels, and frankly, I hated the new wood inserts on the dash and doors of the Grand Ville. To my eyes, looked really cheap!

About build quality...I think I remember that in '71 the warranty was reduced to 12 months/12,000 miles, down from 3/36. I remember my Dad grumbling about then when we were looking at new Chevys. Your '71 Caprice looks more Caddy-like than a '69 or '70, but I think you'll note there was more hard plastic inside (lower door panels, black hard plastic around instruments and a black steering wheel) than on your '69. When a teenager, a friend's parents had both '70 and '71 Impalas. While I liked the exterior of the '71 better, I remember thinking...and the owners saying this too...that the '70 was so much better-built. I remember there was more color-keyed soft trim inside a '70, and better woodgraning, etc.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone, too!

Bill </div></div>

January 26, 2007

Oh, OK.. Yeah. I remember now. I was wondering if it had ever sold. Hasn't it been listed several times? Looks like a very nice car. I am shocked that it has not sold.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same color vinyl top only it had a big hole in it. It's back on ebay again. The owner is a BCA member and i was wondering if he's seen this thread? Tom </div></div>

January 26, 2007

LOL, yeah, I was about to say, "thanks for the compliment". <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, no problem- no offense taken. There are several other early 70s GM cars interiors that I dislike, everyone has their opinion. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, my car is in good shape... it was a 1-owner garage car when I bought it it about 3 years ago. It is 100% rust free and everything still works perfectly. Here is a exterior photo I took of it in December 06'

I changed out the "standard" Grand Ville hubcaps and placed on the "optional" hubcaps Pontiac offered on all Pontiacs (full-size) in 73'. I may switch them back though. I also dislike the huge bumpers that GM (and all cars) gained in 73' but they are acceptable. I really like the 73' Electra's front end actually. I would have also toned down the 73' Pontiacs headlight bezels too.

I actually agree with you! I am personally not wild about the interior faux wood trim on the 73-75 Grand Ville, nor the dash. I am much more of a fan of the 71-72 Grand Ville (interior and exterior), but got such a good deal on my 73' that I could not pass it up, as its still a early 70s GM car and I am a fan. I really like the dash better on the 71-72. I think the trim is overdone on the 73+ Grand Ville's and I much prefer the door panels on the 73' Bonneville, or even the 72' Grand Ville for that matter. After last night, as mentioned, I had actually e-mailed the owner of a 73' Grand Safari (posted above) that I had spoke to before and he is going to send me interior photos. He also had some interesting information about that trim that you "dislike" in the 73-75 Grand Ville. Seems as if it was very costly to make and was discontinued after 1976, with the redesign. Here is what he e-mailed me: ...... "the chief of interior and exterior color/trim for Pontiac in the early to mid 70's. He lives here in Palm Springs. I have met his friend who designed the gorgeous door panel trim (faux wood). It is the prettiest I have ever seen on a 70's car. He told me in 76 they quit making it because it was too costly. I also met the fella that designed the fancy Pontiac nameplates (the script writing) and he gave me the drawing the went to production to produce the Grand Safari emblems beginning in 73! And of course the diamond pattern and the scrolling on the arms rest and back seat were done by another of Blaine's guy. That guy came over from Oldsmobile with Blaine and that's why in 73 the Pontiac interior had a lot of Olds touches". I think that wood trim looks better on different color interior. I do not really like my cars interior color. I like the dark blue w/light blue interior that some of the 73' Grand Villes had. That trim looks much better with that color interior. I will post photos of a car with that color interior soon. (From the movie "Seven-Ups".

I really loved the door panels/dash on my old 72' Electra Custom:

<span style="font-weight: bold">WOW- those photos were old... taken back in 2001 (before we even paved the driveway). LOL.</span>

Yeah, this is a Buick site, but no problem about talking about other makes. We enjoy old cars all together and its often interesting to compare and learn new things about these cars... especially with the older models. I have even talked about Fords here. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ( Did I mention I am a fan of the 73-78 Country Squire? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

I will have to do some research on your question about the difference between the Catalina Brougham and Bonneville. I think the wheelbase was longer on the Bonneville, but I think the interior was about the same. I have a 72' Pontiac sales brochure somewhere that gives ALL of the details, but I have to dig it up. I am about to sort all of my brochures, so it may take a couple of weeks, but I will get that info and post it here. You mentioned a 73' Bonneville 2dr hardtop.... they are quite rare. There were only 13,866 made.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaffer, a major apology is in order here! Sorry for the hackneyed comments about '73 big Pontiacs! I didn't see until later that you owned a '73 Grand Ville. Yours certainly looks in good shape in the photos. Again, sorry about that!

I think I could be interested in a '73 Bonneville two-door hardtop...the sportier roofline but also has the wide rocker moldings...and a pretty nice interior too!

I know this is the Buick forum, but I always thought it was funny that the only difference, really, between a Catalina Brougham and a Bonneville (in the early '70's) was the wheelbase, am I right? They had identical interior trim...guess the Bonneville did have wide rocker moldings. Same for Venturas and Executives in the '60's...looked nearly identical inside and out, but the Exec was built on the longer Bonneville wheelbase.

Bill </div></div>

January 26, 2007

Oh, here is a couple of links of photos of the 73' Bonneville 2dr:

http://www.classicpontiacs.com/seventies/b-bodies/1973/photos/dcp_2.jpg

http://www.classicpontiacs.com/seventies/b-bodies/1973/photos/curt_young.jpg

The Bonneville- exterior wise was like the Grand Ville, as it had the same trim and grille, however, it had taillights like the Catalina. Grand Ville had its own taillights. I personally would love to have a 71' Grand Safari 3-seat wagon, but finding a 71' Pontiac wagon is like pulling hens teeth. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I know where there is a local 71' Grand Safari 2-seat wagon, which was very rare (only 3613 made), but it has been setting since the early 80s and in very poor condition. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

BTW- here are the 71-75 full-size Pontiac production #'s. Thought you may like this information.

Numbers are listed below, but the way they "copied and pasted" make it difficult to decipher -so it may be better to click on the link below :

http://www.classicpontiacs.com/seventies/b-bodies/production_numbers.html

It is also posted on here how the Grand Safari for 71-72 was based on Bonneville and 73-75 was based on Grand Ville. A note of interest is that the 76 Grand Safari was based on the Bonneville again, as there was no Grand Ville in 1976. 75' was the last year for Grand Ville. For 76' the top of the line Pontiac became the Bonneville Brougham.

1971 Production Numbers Model

Converts

2 dr hardtps

4 dr hardtps

4 dr sedans

Wagons

Catalina

2,036

6,257

22,333

59,355

*19,605

Catalina

Brougham

0

8,823

9,001

6,069

0

Bonneville

0

8,778

16,393

6,513

**9,585

Grandville

1,784

14,017

30,524

0

*Safari (Catalina) 6 passenger wagons: 10,322

Safari 9 passenger wagons: 9,283

**Grand Safari (Bonneville) 6 passenger wagons: 3,613

Grand Safari 9 passenger wagons: 5,972

1972 Production Numbers Model

Converts

2 dr hardtps

4 dr hardtps

4 dr sedans

Wagons

Catalina

2,399

60,233

28,010

83,004

*27,302

Catalina

Brougham

0

10,545

8,762

8,007

0

Bonneville

0

10,568

15,806

9,704

**14,215

Grandville

2,213

19,852

41,346

0

*Safari (Catalina) 6 passenger wagons: 14,536

Safari 9 passenger wagons: 12,766

**Grand Safari (Bonneville) 6 passenger wagons: 5,675

Grand Safari 9 passenger wagons: 8,540

1973 Production Numbers Model

Converts

2 dr hardtps

4 dr hardtps

4 dr sedans

Wagons

Catalina

0

74,394

31,663

100,592

*30,416

Bonneville

0

13,866

17,202

15,830

0

Grandville

4,447

23,963

44,092

0

**17,670

*Safari (Catalina) 6 passenger wagons: 15,762

Safari 9 passenger wagons: 12,766

**Grand Safari (Grandville) 6 passenger wagons: 6,894

Grand Safari 9 passenger wagons: 10,776

1974 Production Numbers Model

Converts

2 dr hardtps

4 dr hardtps

4 dr sedans

Wagons

Catalina

0

40,657

11,769

46,025

*12,148

Bonneville

0

7,639

6,151

6,770

0

Grandville

3,000

11,631

21,714

0

**8,149

*Safari (Catalina) 6 passenger wagons: 5,662

Safari 9 passenger wagons: 6,486

**Grand Safari (Grandville) 6 passenger wagons: 2,894

Grand Safari 9 passenger wagons: 5,255

1975 Production Numbers Model

Converts

2 dr hardtps

4 dr hardtps

4 dr sedans

Wagons

Catalina

0

40,657

0

40,398

*8,956

Bonneville

0

7,854

12,641

0

**7,320

Grandville

Brougham

4,519

7,447

15,686

0

*Safari (Catalina) 6 passenger wagons: 3,964

Safari 9 passenger wagons: 4,992

**Grand Safari (Bonneville) 6 passenger wagons: 2,568

Grand Safari 9 passenger wagons: 4,752

January 26, 2007

Wow Shaffer, thanks for all the detailed big Pontiac production information, and the other pics you posted!

First off, I did indeed always like that rich chocolate brown color of 1973 as on your Grand Ville. My sister had a '73 Chevelle wagon bought new in that color and I always thought it was a "dressy" color.

Secondly, that '72 Electra of yours is gorgeous! I love that light-colored cloth interior. You'd think it would really show the dirt, but it looked great in the photos!

I do think the big Buicks of '71-73 had the best instrument panels of Chevy-Pontiac-Olds-Buick. Just looks the richest. I always did, too, like the '71 Cadillac DeVille dash with brushed metal-look inserts on dash and doors, where you might expect woodgrain. It's weird, some '71's have the metal look and some have woodgrain. I've never figured out if the woodgrain on DeVilles was a mid-year change, or if maybe the metal look was only on Coupe de Villes, not Sedan deVilles. Anybody know?

'Nother question...my memory is fading on this. Did the Electra/GrandVille/Ninety Eight of '74 still have the traditional hardtop roofline? I know the lower full-size lines had what I think is that goofy, three-side window look on the coupes. I am certain that the '75 and '76's all had fixed rear quarter windows.

A Chevy I always liked was the '75 Impala Sport Coupe. It had a traditional hardtop roofline (all four windows went down), but it was way overshadowed in sales by the Custom Coupe with that huge B pillar. I remember a '75 Sport Coupe in our town with all the optional exterior moldings, vinyl top, brown herringbone 50/50 seats, factory wire covers, and boy was it nice. I'd have taken it over the same year's Caprice!

Speaking of Chevys, I liked the general sweep and shape of '71-'76 Chevy instrument panels, but don't think they really got it all right 'til the '75 and '76 with the "Econominder Gauge Package". This added two gauges flanking the speedo numbers (which looked ridiculously spaced out, 0-100, if you DIDN'T get the gauge package), these panels had color-keyed clusters (finally), had color-keyed wheel and column, and decent woodgraining. Anybody else's opinion? We had a '74 Impala Sport Coupe and although the left-side of column heater controls was kind of strange, my Dad always liked the long, deep ashtray which would hold his pipe (unfortunately he died of lung and brain cancer twenty years later).

Lastly, concerning unusually-equipped full-size GM cars of '71-'76...I very specifically remember our Chev-Cadillac dealer getting in a solid black with black cloth interior, '72 Calais Hardtop Sedan with blackwalls, NO AIR, AND NO RADIO!!! There was a black blockoff plate where the radio and A/C vents would be on the dash. The sticker was $6,480...I remember it clearly. It disappeared a day or two later so apparently was ordered.

One last thing about dashes...do I remember right?...right-half of big Buick dashes changed in '74, but the entire dash changed for '75 and '76?

Bill

Centurion · January 27, 2007

Bill, thanks for your interest in these cars!

You're correct about the '74 rooflines. Here's a '74 Electra coupe owned by one of our forum members, Electramanrob. (Buick did offer an optional Landau roof option on the '74's, and it did have an opera window, but I do not have a photo.) Electramanrob's car is unusual in that it lacks a vinyl roof.

The Olds 98 and Pontiac Grand Ville also maintained traditional hardtop styling on the '74 coupes. I thought that this was somewhat surprising for the Grand Ville, since it was a B-Body car rather than a C-Body car like the 98 and Electra.

January 27, 2007

Thanks for the info...what a gorgeous Electra!! I like that metallic green too, very spring-like. I remember that color. Our '74 Impala, unfortunately, was that dreadful pale pastel non-metallic light green...ick!

Bill

January 27, 2007

No problem... hope you enjoyed. Yeah, that chocolate brown color was pretty popular on the early 70s GM cars. Somehow I keep ending up with that color. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I cannot remember- my Pontiacs color is "burma brown" I think. There is a close color called "burnished umber", but I cannot recall which mine is.

Thanks for the compliments on my old Electra. Thats one car I wish I had of kept. That car was the antique gold color, with saddlewood top. It was a 1-owner local car, owned by a doctor. He passed away back in the early 90s, then the car set in his sons barn until I bought it in early 2001. He started it occasionally every year to keep it in good order. It was covered with dust and chicken poop when I went to look at it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Washed it off and it looked like new, but the top parts were getting surface rust and the vinyl top was getting grim. Even the original A/C was still ice cold! The interior was so good, because he kept the interior covered. Even the carpeting was like brand new. Under the original Buick floormats, it looked like the air had never even touched it. It was actually the purchase of that car that brought me here to the BCA and then I started learning how these cars were so oddly equipped (hence the name of this thread - which is #2.. Thread #1 was the same, but it was lost?). I remember that I was so facinated that my car had the fairly rare "finger tip wiper control" option on the end of the gear shift. I personally have only seen one other so equipped. I found out from Kurts site here: http://www.72electra.com/1972%20PRODUCTION.htm , that 8279 4dr 72' Electras were so equipped (or 7.9%). This is a neat site as well for any 72' Electra 4dr fan. I sold it to a guy in Rock Hill, SC.... I have not heard from him since. I have no idea if he still owns it- or where it is. I would like to know.

I agree- the instrument panels on the 71-73 Buicks are one of my faves. However, I must say that my favorite is the 71-73 Cadillac. I also used to own a 72' Sedan DeVille (which was my 1st car). Its interesting you mentioned the "chrome" accents on the 71' Cadillacs. I think only the Fleetwood Brougham had the woodgrain accents for 71', then Calais and DeVille switched over for 72', from what I can gather. I think even the 71' Sedan DeVille had the chrome, rather than woodgrain, which is very interesting.

Yeah, Brian is right- that roofline lived on into 1974 on the Ninety Eight, Electra and Grand Ville.

That 72' Calais you mentioned is very interesting. Not only was the Calais rare anyway, but for one to be equipped like that is even more interesting.

The 74' Buick dash did look a bit different, especially on the passenger side, but I think it was not until 75' was the big change? Here is a link to a mint 74' Electra on E-bay. Dash photos there:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Buick-Ele...075102273QQrdZ1

BTW- I posted a question on the Pontiac boards about the diff between the Catalina Brougham vs. the Bonneville. Here was someones reply:

" 1972 Cat: Length 221.3", Width 79.3", Wheelbase 123.5", Stand Eng 400 ci, HP 175, Horizontal Grilles (front), Brougham model was strictly an interior upgrade option from standard Catalina - both were different than the Bonnie's interior. For $15 you can buy the Brougham brochure at http://www.mclellansautomotive.com/s...ac/index.shtml, You can buy a '72 Brougham right now $1,700 at http://fresno.craigslist.org/car/258378618.html, another one for $2,200 at http://www.americandreamcars.com/1972pontiac031203.htm

1972 Bonneville: Stand Eng 455 ci 2bbl, HP 185, Vertifcal Grilles (front)"

There is a photo of the one at the above link. That reminds me, I almost bought a green 72' Bonneville 4dr sedan a few years ago.... it had the 455 with the factory 2bbl. Matter of fact... here is a photo of it:

http://www.classicpontiacs.com/seventies/b-bodies/1972/photos/greenb_1.jpg

If I recall, it had A/C and tilt wheel, AM-FM radio, but no power windows/locks. The car was local, then the person that posted it here, bought it after I had looked at it. Anyway, it seems like the Catalina Brougham and Bonneville's interior were different. Seems like the Catalina Brougham just had a slightly "fancier" interior than the Catalina..... I guess in the same manner of speaking that the difference was between a LeSabre and a LeSabre Custom of the same years.

I know that color of green you mention on the 74' Impala. We used to have a 74' Impala 4dr sedan back in 1986 (that was still in VGC) that my dad eventually removed the engine from in 1987 to put in an 69' El Camino. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> This was about the same time my uncle bought a MINT, one elderly owner, brown, 1971 Grand Ville 4dr hardtop just for the engine for his 70' Trans AM. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> He let me smash the car with a hammer (best I could, since I was only about 10 years old) and was virtually not damageable. Back then, they were not all that rare/desirable and I think he bought it for like $250. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Looking back, I would LOVE to have that car back!!

I also agree with you about the later model Chevrolets having more attractive dash panels. As mentioned, in 1973, the Caprice switched back over to color-keyed wheel/column and custom cushion wheel. I think that went a few steps further in 1975-76, when the instrument cluster area itself became more color-keyed.

Case in point... I went on e-bay and these were the only photos I could find of a 71' Caprice vs. a 76' Caprice.

71' Caprice - note black steering wheel/column:

76' Caprice - color keyed wheel/column, as well as a more color-keyed dash cluster. The 73-74 had the color-keyed wheel/column, but still had the black trim around the cluster.

NOW - I may stand corrected, because I looked on ebay and found this 74' Impala "Spirit of America" and it appears to have the color-keyed instrument cluster trim as well.... so perhaps it was even on the 74' Caprice. I have not seen the interior of a 74' Caprice in years... so I do not remember, which is pretty sad, because I know the 71-76 Chevrolets inside-out... at least I thought I did! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-Impa...1QQcmdZViewItem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow Shaffer, thanks for all the detailed big Pontiac production information, and the other pics you posted!