Can you help me identify this car?

[Guest]

Does anyone recognize the make, model, and year of the car in this photo?

http://www.brazzil.com/daniv/Mystery_car.jpg

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Paulsen]

It is a Pope-Hartford. Probably 1907 or 1908. Hard to tell from the photo.

I hope this helps.

I would guess others will have more info.

Chris

[Peter J.Heizmann]

First, welcome to the forum...

As Chris mentioned, there will be knowledgeable folks responding in short order. (The Holidays traditionally generate a slowdown in responses on the Forum.)

Personally, I find the flags and rather important appearing people as interesting as the car.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Chris,

I found a 1906 ad for the Pope-Hartford Model F, and it does bear a striking resemblance to my mystery car, although I can't say with certainty that the two are one and the same.

http://shop.vendio.com/baylor45/item/579433382/index.html

The Pope-Hartford Model F does appears closer to the mark than the cars (Lozier, Spyker, and Rambler) suggested to me at the rec.toys.cars news group.

Thanks,

[Guest]

Peter,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First, welcome to the forum...</div></div>

Thank you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, I find the flags and rather important appearing people as interesting as the car. </div></div>

The flags indicate that the people in the car are rooting for Cal (University of California at Berkeley). The group is on its way to the Cal-Stanford Big Game.

The man driving the car is Oscar Maurer, a well-known photographer of the Pictorialist movement. The women are Mrs. Moody and her two daughters, one of whom was married to Maurer.

The Moodys (and Maurer) lived in one of the grand houses of Berkeley:

http://www.brazzil.com/daniv/berkeley/weltevreden.html

I'm currently working on a similar page devoted to Maurer, his photography studio (another designated City of Berkeley Landmark), and his life. I'd love to be able to date the photo and ascertain whether the Moody-Maurer party went all the way to Palo Alto that day or merely drove the short distance to California Field in Berkeley.

[Clincher]

Looks like a Pope-Hartford Model L. The four cylinder touring car sold new for $2750 in 1907.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Daniella...

Thank you for the description of the people. Great photo.

Regards, Peter J. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[ronbarn]

Daniella, GO BEARS!! As a Berkeley alum and old car fanatic, I was fascinated by the photo and really enjoy the web site. Assume you are aware that another Berkeley graduate, Howard Marmon went on to make the Marmon automobile. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Clincher,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a Pope-Hartford Model L. The four cylinder touring car sold new for $2750 in 1907.</div></div>

Thanks. I found this ad for the Model L:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3642428244&category=13559

Too bad the car is shown in profile only, but all the details do seem to match.

[Guest]

ronbarn,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assume you are aware that another Berkeley graduate, Howard Marmon went on to make the Marmon automobile. </div></div>

Was not, but thanks to you I went googling and learned something about him.

Also checked the university's website for Marmon references.

Here's a 1915 photo from the Bancroft Library at UCB, showing (among other things) a Marmon:

http://ark.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/tf400006jf/

[1937hd45]

I wish the radiator detail was a bit sharper, it is a POPE. The Toledo version had a peak on the top of the radiator and this profile ran along top of the hood. Do a Google search and the Nethercutt 1906 Pope-Toledo will turn up. Based on the bell shape of the radiator I think this is a 1906 POPE-Hartford, the Lou Biondi 1906 was on the cover of Antique Autombile in the last 4 years.

[ronbarn]

Daniella, I'm leaning more to the 1907 because of the shape of the cowl. The 1906 flattened out at the top, while the 1907 was more round. Glad you found the Marmon references. I am a Marmon nut (have four of them) and would be happy to talk with you about them and the history of the company. ronbarn@otelco.net How 'bout them Bears and the bowl game victory.

[Guest]

Here's another shot of a car parked in front of the same house seen in the Pope-Hartford "Big Game" photo:

Car 2:

http://www.brazzil.com/daniv/Mystery_car2.jpg

"Big Game":

http://www.brazzil.com/daniv/Mystery_car.jpg

Looks like the same car to me. Is it?