Highway_101 Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hello, I hope someone can put my mind at ease. I live in Washington state. Out of the blue I get a call from a guy in N.Y. state interested in a vehicle of mine that he has never seen. He hasn't seen pictures yet and is already talking as if he is buying it. He says that for insurance purposes he needs pics and a photocopy of the title. The copy of the title is what makes me a little nervous. Is there any that this would jeopardize my legal ownership? The guy seems real nice and sincere. I have never sold a car across the country and don't know what to expect. Any Input is much appreciated. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our51super Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hi,Pictures of the car are OK as long as you can cover up your license plates. Don't send a copy of anything that shows your personal info or car VIN or anything else just to be safe. He doesn't need a copy of the title to insure the car. Most insurance companies will cover a newly purchased car for 30 days under an existing policy. In my opinion this guy is up to something to want a copy of the title. Don't do it - it smells fishy. I mean, who buys a car without even seeing a pic and wants a copy of the title?You might as well post your credit card number with an expiration date on here along with your SSN.Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 look him up it the members directory... or email the local club.do not send the title, or a copy until the check has cleared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_101 Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Thanks guys for the input. Crin, I never thought of covering up the license plate.....good idea. Say, if this does turn out to be a legitimate sale, since it wouldn't be in person, how would the whole cash/title swap work out. In other words, would he have to send the money and trust me for the title, or vice versa. Is there a better way of doing it? Thanks much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I have bought numerous cars via mail and pictures.I have always sent the money and gotten the title in return.Most of the time I have spoken to the people with the car and felt comfortable doing this.YOU are the one with the most to lose in this transaction, mainly your car and the title, YOU be the one who calls the shots.If I was selling, I would have cash in hand before the car went on to a trailer or the tile went out of my posession.While 90 % of people are good in this hobby, you still run into the bad 10 %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our51super Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I agree with Bill. If I was selling a car long distance I would have the buyer send the cash (Money Order or Wire Transfer) first then I would ship the car with the title. By the way the shipping arrangements should be the buyer's responsability - always is. You can help arrange the shipping by maybe adjusting your schedule to accomodate the pick-up of the car but that's about all you should need to do.By the way, did you guys know that a Cashier's Check is not the same as cash? It still has to clear - found this out the hard way. So don't let go of that car and title until you have the full payment in your bank account and your bank tells you that it has cleared and you are good to go.Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis passan Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 i read something recently about scammers applying for new registrationsand then recieving title into their names, then reporting the cars stolen.there are many reasons why they do this.it's hard to understand why someone asks for information like this ahead of time? maybe they have the exact same model sitting in their garage, but it was stolen...hmmmm? and for them, it's easier registering a different car, it all depends on what type and model car you are selling? and the condition....? and the price you are asking....maybe your model fits into their plan....? i know with older factory stock vehicles, you do not need to go through inspection, in some states, just a VIN number verification process. they really did not check anything on my 49, it was appaling, i knew i was 100% ok, but, i had a car from another state and a vin tag that was screwed onto the drivers door column...hello!there's alot of oportunities for crooked people to take advantage of this!!! i cannot understand what this person is trying to accomplish with you by asking for title copies, maybe this person is genuine and very excited, maybe that person has been looking for your specific model for months on end...give em' the benifit without doubt, as long as the money gets to you certified, and then give the check time to clear, and most important- "when you deposit the check with your bank, make sure enough time and information is given to the bank, so they can follow it back to make sure the funds are there" i did hear of one instance where the buyer was pushing the seller to make a quick deal, the check cleared up front, the car was picked up that same day, then the seller got the bad news, the bank funds where not there when the check made it back to the originator, the sellers account was debited for the full amount....ouch!!! how does your buyer want to pay you????? ask him! call the bank, for your own peace of mind,ask them what type of check should you recieve from him to be secure...then give the bank enough time to verify that check when you get it, make sure you hang onto the car until all this transpires, if your buyer wants the car that bad he will have to bend to your requests, also, let him arrange his own transportation, what if something happened to the vehicle during transport??? fire, theft, damage, stolen-parts. traffic-accident? what will you do if the transporter tells you they are not covered for this after the fact.will the buyer hold you responsible? OH YEAH! he will be expecting a car for his money.i would let him know, in writing on the "bill of sale" that he signs and returns to you, that he retains a good carrier with insurance just for these types of problems that can occur, and that, >YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE< (vehicle is sold as is, where is, et.al)from your property line!!!the buyer is responsible for transportation and safe procurment of this vehicle.WOW, i got carried away, sorry....what type of car is this, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I can understand why a person would want to see the title before buying a car. The person from NY can't always register the car without the title or some other state issued documentation. For example, for any car 1973 or newer that is sold within NY you need the title. Before 1973 you need the registration of the vehicle. Otherwise, the clerk at the Dept of Motor Vehicles won't register the car. So, I have bought cars out of state and insisted on seeing the title before I bought the car. It's a good idea to see if the name on the title matches the seller's name, the car, and the seller's home address.So, my advice to you is make a photocopy of the title, and blackout any information you feel uncomfortable about releasing, and send it to the guy.Sellers must beware, and so must the buyer. Good Luck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMPARTSMAN Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I'm hesitant about releasing VIN's to unknown persons.Quick story:Three states involved:Car titled and stored in state we will refer to as "A"Given to son living in state "B"Owned by father living in state "C"Son titles and plates car in state "B"Father dies in state "C", second wife files for lost title with death certificate and VIN in "C", AFTER title was changed from "A" to "B" and car was plated in "B". Wife goes to "A", takes posession of car and sells vehicle with title from "C" to new owner in "A". State "B" said that because car was neverphysically there, it was a matter for state "A". State "C" refuses to get involved, says it is up to "A". "A" starts to look into it, says yes, it is fradulent, then a month later reverses itself and says is is a civil matter, not criminal! Son gives up on matter, says it's not worth to fight for car. It was not a high dollar car,sentimental value only. I was assisting him in "A" with police and DMV, so I feel that I have first hand knowledge on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our51super Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Don't send that title or a copy of it .... why would he need to register the car before he buys it? That makes no sense. He's not the legal owner of the car until the funds have been received by the seller. Don't do it ... you'll be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brh Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Its a sad but true fact that these days you must cover your self on everything. I have even been cautioned about putting too much info on a window card for shows!! People eye up your car, take the vin, find your address and rip off your car. Sad but very true. Lots of nice people turn out to be crooks, thats why they are so good at it. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_101 Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Thanks again guys for all the input. I will definately be cautious. I am trying to give the potential purchaser the benefit of doubt. Maybe he just wants to make sure that I have title to the vehicle. To put both our minds at ease, is there any way to do some sort of escrow where a bank delivers title and cash after both have been received? Dennis, the vehicle is a 1973 International 3/4 ton Crew Cab short bed pickup. That's the other fishy thing.....I am a fan if IH's, but who is likely to buy one completely across the country .....just kidding. I'll post how it goes. Again, many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 It is not that strange to find people into any kind of car. Me I like Station Wagons and 4 doors. Have bought last one in North Dakota and I live in Texas.There are escrow services that will do exactly what you say, but if he trusts you to send the title and the car, he should send you the cash.Just keep communication open and do what you say you will do when you say you will do it. You get a feeling dealing with people whether to trust them. Like I said before YOU call the shots, its your car. I always ask for the title to be sent UPS next day and pay the charge so I can track it. Just my way. I also send the cashiers check the same way. Less hassle and I know it got there and who signed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I can appreciate everybody being a skeptic, but you can go to any car show, get the vin # off the car (assuming it is visible from the outside) and get the owners name since it is usually displayed. Do a quick seach in YAHOO and it should be pretty easy to get the owners address.So, I just can't see the risk in sending somebody a copy of the title. Again, they want to make sure you own the car free and clear. You don't send somebody cash for a car and "hope" that they own it. In response to an earlier post, the reason you need to validate that the title is good BEFORE you buy the car, is when you go to register the car (after your have paid for it) there are no problems with the department of motor vehicles. In other words, what could be worse than paying alot of money for a car that you can't get plates for.So, if you want to sell the car, these are some of the things you got to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Chapman Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Just one comment on this UPS thing. I'd recommend sending any payments by US Postal Service, Registered/Return Receipt/Delivery notification. It's almost as fast as and brings the horsepower of the USPS and mail fraud charges if things go sour. Most nobody in their right minds would risk mail fraud over an old car...JMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis passan Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 boy, i don't know about you, i don't think i'll everbuy, or, sell another car across vast distances that involves, " you show me yours-and i'll show you mine" strategy, but unfortunately this is what it has come to.sounds like a mexican stand off, or a checkers game gone bad!it almost makes you want to advertise and sell it locally, just toavoid all the trouble you need to go through. even when you safeguard yourself, something still can go wrong, then you gotta wait and worry? is it worth it, you decide....as long as your an honest seller, this would be my hard fast new rules.tell everyone the price, and how you want to recieve the money.list what information you will release on the vehicle.tell them how the transportation will go into effect.make it clear that there will be no changes to your methods.and the moment you get that one question outside your guidelinesjust say sorry, i don't care what state rules they have.....NEXTthey can always rent a trailer and pay you in person and pick it up!how cool is that, take some time off and go pick up your dream car!a mini-vacation!!! cash on the old barrel head, it will cost a thousand dollars to transport that vehicle anyways...right, tell them to get the most enjoyment out of their money, and come get it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 If all he wants is proof that the car is yours and title is clear, make a photocopy, mark it "copy only, not for DMV or registration use" and have it notarized.One other angle to this is that the shipper may want a valid VIN and proof of seller's ownership before they will accept the shipment. That way they don't get hammered with a stolen car problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest miked Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Why would you want to cover the plate in a photo? If there were any information to gain from your lic plate number, then what is to stop someone from taking your plate number anywhere? On your daily driver? Or take a picture of someone elses car and posting it on the internet without their permission without covering the plate? Just currious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our51super Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Look on eBay and count the number of tags that you can see. Not many by my count. It's that whole privacy thing. It seems everyone is doing it. Even in the news they blur the tags. Not sure what someone can do with that info - it's just one of those unquestioned common practices.Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Riviera Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Dont waste your time on doing anything until you have a Non Refundable deposit of say 500.00 in the Bank - Then you can afford to dance a little. No $$$ No car! Have the money in the bank before you let loose of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
our51super Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 So what happened? Does the story have a happy ending?Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_101 Posted November 12, 2003 Author Share Posted November 12, 2003 An Update:Thanks again all for your guidance on this matter. The potential buyer ended up asking about a few of the Internationals that I have for sale. I have emailed him pictures (with license plates covered), and am waiting to hear back from him. The title issue has not come up again....yet, but if/when it does, I'll be very careful.....I'll send him a copy with VIN and License # blacked out and maybe write something across it like "Copy for ownership verification only". If his motivation is only to prove that I am the owner, I understand. I'll let y'all know how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_101 Posted December 21, 2003 Author Share Posted December 21, 2003 Hello all,Here is another update. This potential sale of 2 vehicles is still dragging on. The potential buyer seems like a genuine nice guy, but never seems to contact me when I expect him to. Just when I think I am not going to hear from him again, I relist the vehicles for sale...then he calls all concerned that I am selling them out from under him. Then he tells me he will call the next day to hammer out all the details. Next day....no call. two weeks later I list them again...and get a concerned email from the guy again. I haven't seen any cash yet.....not even a deposit. What do you all think is proper etiquite here. In some sense, I have a sale pending here, but since I don't have any "earnest money", I cannot really afford to turn someone else down who has cash to spend. I am not mad or anything, I just wonder what my proper response should be. Should I politely ask for a 10 percent non-refundable deposit.....and tell him that I don't consider the rigs sold until I have some cash in hand? Any suggestions are appreciated. I am just trying to do the proper thing without hurting my own pocket book. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 If the buyer is not making himself available, I would be careful. Time to move on. If he wants the car bad enough, making contact with him should be no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I never consider a car sold until I have cash in hand.A deposit is good for a week or two as long as there is contact between us, but with no money down and problems contacting the buyer, it is time to say goodbye to him.If he is so worried about you selling out from underneath him, let him send you some cash. Dont be afraid to ask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_101 Posted December 22, 2003 Author Share Posted December 22, 2003 Thanks guys,I emailed him today and politely stated that I will not consider the rigs sold, and I will keep advertising them until I have cash in hand. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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