Bob Lutz, where are you?

[Centurion]

I was heartened by Roger Adams' presentation at the Buick Centennial back in July, and it was encouraging to learn that Buick will be introducing a number of new or re-designed models during the next few years.

My concern is that this is simply not happening quickly enough. I read in a fleet news publication last week that a few automakers are relying increasingly on sales to rental fleets in order to prop up sales. The three mentioned were Mitsubishi, Suzuki, and Buick. More than 42% of Mitsubishis currently sold in the U.S. go into rental fleets, and, sadly, more than 36% of current Buick sales are to the rental fleets.

I view Buick's growing reliance on fleet sales as a reflection of its limited and aging product lineup. Many of us agree that Buick has been starved for product during recent years, and I am concerned that GM is not moving quickly enough to shore up the line. The addition of the Rainier and a more powerful engine for the Rendezvous are welcome additions, but Buick needs much more than this.

GM has teased us for years with stunning Buick dream cars, and I wonder again why we have not seen production versions of the Centienne, LaCrosse, or Cielo. We have only to look at the striking new vehicles that Nissan/Infiniti has introduced within the last couple years to understand how relentless and bold the competition is.

Bob Lutz, I can only hope that you are working aggressively to ready some radically new Buicks for the road. The clock is ticking, and every day without new product further weakens Buick's competitive position and status in the marketplace.

[NTX5467]

When does a product become "aged"? Sometimes it seems that happens after it's been out for only two years, depending upon who's doing the talking. Granted, the GM midsize platform appeared in about '97 with the Grand Prix, but look at how OLD the current Mustang platform is (like '78 Fairmont!) or the fact that tne GM C/K/R/V light truck chassis went from 1973-1991 . Even the "new" imports are not ALL new either! Therefore, to me at least, this whole argument about "aged platforms" is not completely viable.

As for the rental/fleet business, that's another area that seems to be "trashed" in the same vein as the "aged platforms". Those buyers or contractors for vehicles need vehicles that are inexpensive to buy/own AND maintain AND will not be in the shop all of the time. Plus, they might want something that's nicer than just a plain car too. Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick company car than a Chevrolet (for example).

The other side of the rental vehicle deal is that it ALSO can be a marketing tool for the auto manufacturers. If someone that had never driven a Buick heads for the National Car Rental Emerald Isle (for example) and finds a Buick Century there, they might well choose it over a Mitsu or Saturn or other vehicle that is available for them. This is a potential Buick customer in the making. There is also the possibility that someone (like me) that uses National (or other firms that have GM cars) regularly, I'm inclined to specifically look for a Buick rather than a Chevrolet or whatever. Therefore, there are valid reasons that Buick needs to be in the rental car and fleet sales arenas.

The additional side of the rental car business is that that is a good part of what supplies those GM Certified Used Cars that are on the lots. You can't afford a new Century, Regal, LeSabre, or Park Avenue? Then wait until they hit their mileage limit and then they'll head through the various circuits that lead to your local dealer's used car division--provided they are in good enough condition to be considered for such.

So, if I were an auto manufacturer, I'd definitely want MY cars out in the fleets and rental car stalls of major rental firms. But I'd also want to have a healthy balance of sales of new vehicles to the general public too.

National has even done promotions in partnership with Buick and Pontiac over the years. In those promotions, they featured either Pontiac Grand Prix GTs or Regal LS (with Gran Touring suspension, leather interior, and CD radios) for their Emerald Isle customers. Seems like there were even some frequent flier miles in the mix when you signed up for Emerald Isle status too. There are also some of the other major rental companies that also have Buicks too.

I might recommend that when you read those accounts of the evil rental car sales and such, that you also understand that that's not the whole story. The writers seem to want you to believe that that's the ONLY place that Buick, Mitsu, Pontiac, or others can "dump" their cars that no one wants to buy. In reality, those cars are sales contracted to those rental companies (so many at specified dates) so it's not like they've got lots of sales bank cars that they must get rid of somehow (as Chrysler was known to do in the '70s and such). As for fleet business, that's typically been a Ford stronghold for decades--one that GM's making inroads into fracturing and cracking over the past couple of years.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Dave@Moon]

NTX,

Are you seriously trying to persuade people that Buick is deliberately selling more than 1/3 of it's production to fleet rental sales as a <span style="font-style: italic">promotional tool</span>???

This is not good. Avis does not pay as much for their Centurys as you would. And they <span style="font-style: italic">don't</span> buy in competition with retail buyers (if they can help it).

This is over-production dumping. Period.

Toyota's going to be the #1 selling car in the U.S. for 2003 including fleet sales (first calender year since 1907 that it wasn't either Ford or Chevy). They make many times more Camrys than Buick could ever hope to build Centurys (which, by the way, is one of the most reliable cars on the road). Ever try to rent a Camry?

I'm sure Mr. Lutz is aware of exactly how much trouble the corporation is in. That's why he was hired. He <span style="font-style: italic">wasn't</span> hired to have his name applied to another GM engineering rush job destined to fail.

I for one hope he takes his time and insures that the next generation of GM products aren't just competative with Honda, Toyota and BMW, but instead are at least a step ahead. The longer it takes, (hopefully) the better the result will be.

[Guest]

The thing I can't understand about GM's product line - is why the sheet metal has to look so dated and downright ugly? It cannot cost more to produce a car with a sexy skin vs. one with an ugly skin - can it ?? I believe the major problem with GM is in the looks not in the mechanics. Yes the architecture is a bit dated (good old push-rods, bless them)but that is not what keeps people away. Do you think people flock to Nissan for engineering prowess (okay their engines are sweet) or for a sexy-looking product??

I purchased a new car a few months ago (Volvo S60) and I'm sorry to say that there was NOTHING offered by any of the US makers (except maybe the Chrysler 300 - but I wouldn't buy anything from them after my miserable Dodge Intrepid ownership experience) that I would care to own. Nothing at all. Why?? Because every one of the sedans is downright ugly and/or boring. Period. Why can't GM or Ford make a car that LOOKS as good as the Maxima or Volvo or Saab etc??? I would have accepted a car with the good old early sixties 3.8 - but I wouldn't want to be SEEN in a Century etc.!!!

[Matt Harwood]

Hopefully we'll start seeing changes in the designs coming out of GM now that Ed Welburn has taken over the design studios. You'll recall that the late, great Harley Earl created GM Design, which pretty much set the standards for vehicle styling for decades. Maybe that will happen again.

However, it won't as long as GM keeps up "business as usual" by designing cars with "focus groups" and "feedback forms." See, what they do is get a bunch of new Monte Carlo (or whatever model) owners together and ask them about the car. Now, this might just be me, but if I just forked out more than $20K for a new car, I'm probably not going to be saying I hate the styling, especially if I'm still in the honeymoon stage. So what GM gets is total positive feedback on what they're doing, and it goes all the way up the management chain. "Hey, guys! The people love the Aztek! Nice Work!"

I have to agree--there aren't many American cars that really light my fires in the styling department (we're leaving out the exotic and sports models here, OK?). I think the Chrysler Crossfire is great looking and nicely integrated, and still manages to be unique. I think the upcoming Chrysler 300 RWD sedan and Dodge Magnum wagon look AWESOME. I like the looks of the Cadillac SRX wagon, and I like the fact that Cadillacs now look different from everything else (thanks, Wayne Cherry!). And I can't wait to see the next Mustang!

Cars I'm disappointed in? Easy. The new GTO. I mean, this baked potato is the best they could do? The GTO name gives you pretty big shoes to fill, and you do it with a 2-door 1995 Grand Prix body? Come ON!

One other thing, though it may only be tangentially related: have you seen the new Grand Prix commercial (I know I'm down on the Grand Prix, but if GM is going to call it their BMW-fighter, then I'm going to compare it to BMWs)? They list the features that are supposed to make it stand out: <span style="font-weight: bold">Aluminum Wheels</span> (wow, just like Hyundai! I mean what car <span style="font-style: italic">doesn't</span> have aluminum wheels these days?), <span style="font-weight: bold">Wide-Track Handling</span> (what the heck is that?!? Plus the numbers suggest that the Buick Regal has a wider track than the Grand Prix...), and, my personal favorite, <span style="font-weight: bold">the <span style="font-style: italic">biggest</span> V6 in its class</span> (but, obviously, not the most powerful--why not? Oh, yeah, they need a supercharger just to <span style="font-style: italic">match</span> the output of the smaller V6s in the class). What a stinker.

Sorry for the rant. Good thing I'm wearing my big-boy pants today, because I'm expecting a lot of fallout from this one...

[Centurion]

Dave, you are correct, of course, that the new cars need to be nearly perfect and should not be rush jobs. I agree that a poorly-executed, unreliable product would be disastrous. One of GM's weaknesses, however, has been the time required to launch a new product. I understand that improvements have been made in the process, so hope that we'll see a steadier stream of new products during the years ahead.

I'm probably just impatient. Three of Buick's four sedan models were introduced in 1997, and the fourth was introduced in 2000. Given the current competitive environment, these are old designs. Yes, the import manufacturers may retain platforms for extended periods of time, but we seem to be seeing all-new sheetmetal on a more frequent basis.

It is interesting to think back thirty or more years ago. The Detroit manufacturers were often criticized for their two-to-three year styling cycles, and the imports maintained their designs for a far longer period of time. Now, the imports seem to undergo almost continuous restyling, and the GM and Ford products continue almost unchanged for years.

[6219_Rules]

NTX, after I lost my beautiful '69 Olds, I thought what the hey! I will rent a Buick to see what they are like. I see an awful lot of older/retired folk driving Centurys and the like so maybe I might like a fairly new Buick. This would be the perfect opportunity to test drive one. Uh huh

I could not find a rental agency that either had them or had any mid-size to full size cars available. This is with a week or more notice mind you. The best they could do was a minivan.

sigh. So I bought an Eldorado in #2 condition. Where were all the rentals?

Just curious.

[NTX5467]

Well, Dave, Dollar and Thrifty (Chrysler Corp, V2-now in V3) and National (typically GM) have used their associations with the manufacturers to feature particular cars over the years. Yep, a purely promotional situation for all parties involved. And yes, those rental promotions can be good for everyone. Otherwise, they wouldn't mention that they "featured" cars by whatever manufacturer in their tag lines.

Back when Chrysler had ALL of their plants running at full capacity back in their glory days of the middle 1990s, the dealers were very mad because they wanted products and the Dollar and Thrifty were allegedly getting cars the dealers should of (or felt they should have) gotten. Yep, there were some battles there over who got what, as I understand, but those two rental companies (which were units of Chrysler at the time) continued to get their cars. When they hit their mileage limits sooner than anticipated, they put Ford products in their place until the new Chrysler stock arrived.

I haven't looked at production vs rental fleet sales, but I also know that when I got to DFW to the National Emerald Isle or any other similar place National has, it's NOT full of Centuries or Regals as some might suspect. Sometimes I have to hunt for one instead of there being several to choose from! There ARE some Toyota Corollas in their fleet too, just as there are Mitsu Gallants. Just my observations. In fact, I felt lucky to find a Grand Prix at the Indy National when I went to Kokomo, too many Mazdas and smaller imports!

Sure, you'll probably see some more aged drivers of Centurys. Regals are aimed at younger people.

As for availability, the larger rental areas at the metro airports will have more cars than the smaller or neighborhood facilities. Each one will have a variable fleet due to constant comings and goings from the rest of the country and such.

I'll concur that the rental market can be a double-edged sword in some respects, but I suspect that National and Avis have an easier time renting Regals than Hertz does Thunderbirds. It's necessary to feed the other used car markets and also allow the rental companies to have a nice car for their clients.

If there is any "dumping" as such by GM to those markets, I haven't heard anyone complain (except the media people) enough for it to stop. Sure, Pontiac's moved or is trying to move away from it, but where they will be heading is the personal/corporate lease customers via GMAC and similar. Same thing, different market.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Guest]

One night I wanted to buy a car.

I dreamed I was walking along

the beach with Bob Lutz. Across

the sky flashed scenes from my

life. For each scene, I noticed

two sets of footprints in the sand;

one belonged to me, and the other

belonged to Bob Lutz.

When the last scene of my life flashed

before me, I looked back at the sand.

I noticed that many times along the path

of my life there was only one set of

footprints. I also noticed that it happened

at the very lowest and saddest times in

my life.

This really bothered me and I questioned

Bob Lutz about it. "Bob Lutz, I said once I

decided to follow you, You'd walk with me

all the way. But I noticed that during the

most troublesome times of my life, there is

only one set of footprints. I don't

understand why when I needed you most,

You would leave me."

Bob Lutz replied, "My precious, precious consummer,

I love you and I would never leave you.

During your times of trial and suffering,

when you see only one set of footprints,

It was then that I carried you."

Now buy the **uking GM product! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[HurstGN]

I believe Tommy was just a little wrong. Here's how I thought that story went...

One night I dreamed I was walking

Along the beach with Harley Earl.

Many Buicks from my life flashed across the sky.

With each Buick I noticed footprints in the sand.

Sometimes there were two sets of footprints.

Other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed that

During the low periods of suffering,

from anguish, sorrow, or defeat,

I could see only one set of footprints,

So I said to Harley,

"You promised me, that if I bought your Buicks,

You would walk with me always.

But I noticed that during the most trying periods

there have only been one set of prints in the sand.

Why, when the tough times hit hard,

have you not been there?"

Harley replied,

"I was there...you carried me.

C'mon kid. What's good for the general is good for the nation.

Wanna buy another warmed over jelleybean of a car with no style?"

Now how about Buick Build the Blackhawk...you've only paraded the car around for years to nothing less than rave reviews! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />