sonomatic radio

[WillBilly53]

is there away i can test the radio? as some of you know the dash and components are completely removed and the radio and clock are sitting in my bedroom. i've got a volt meter, but was wondering if i could hook it up to a 12 volt battery to get power to test it?

this post may indeed go up there with one of my first posts

"hole in gas tank"

[Bill Stoneberg]

First are the 53's 12 volts ? I cant remember if they switched in 53 or 54.

If so, you can try to see if you get static from the radio. Without an Antennna that is all you will get.

Clock probably wont work, they are wound every so often and the run down and are rewound by 12 volts.

You cant hurt either by trying if your car is 12 volts.

Hole in gas tank, I hope you didn't try to weld it.

[WillBilly53]

it is indeed 12 volts. '53 was the year they switched.

so should i hook up a 12 volt adapter to the clock and leave it for a while so it will wind? i can get the clock's light to come on but that's all.

and there's only one wire coming out of the radio with a fuse. is it positive and ground? i wish i was better at electronics...

[Guest Mr. Solutions]

Will

Something to consider: convert your EXISTING clock. It will look exactsly the same as the original (you use the original casing, arms etc), but it will not rely on the 'wind-up' feature to operate. It will work like a modern car's analogue clock.

The down side: The second arm (if fitted) no longer ticks from second to second; instead it is a smooth motion around the dial. Also, the really nice (for some) ticking sound you get will be lost. Depending on who does the work for you, it may cost from reasonable to 'an arm & a leg'.

The up side: 100% reliability, 100% accurate. No funny things when you disconnect & reconnect the battery.

[Guest AWBE]

I think if it is a V-8, it is 12v.

[raleets]

Will,

I've "benched checked" several old Buick radios using a 12 volt automotive battery. First, go to Radio Shack and buy yourself a cheap set of jumper wires with alligator clips on each end. The wire coming out of the radio is the "hot" or "positive" wire. Connect it to the "+" terminal of your battery. Then connect the other wire to the metal casing of the radio on one end and to the "-" or "negative" terminal on the battery. You have now created the same situation as when the radio is mounted in the car. Be sure to do all this stuff with the radio switched OFF. While at Radio Shack also purchase a cheap auto antenna, or go to a junk yard and get one. Be sure it has the lead wire and male plug attached. Mount the antenna somewhere nearby the radio with a C-clamp or whatever to hold it in a vertical position. Pull out the mast to get as much antenna length as possible. Run another jumper wire from the base of the antenna to the casing on the radio. This "grounds" the antenna, simulating having it bolted to the fender. Since the radio casing is also attached to the battery, everything is properly grounded. If the radio is functional it should now produce some noise. You cannot "tune" the radio and "match" the antenna until you get it back into the car because the entire body acts in harmony with the antenna, but this goofy set-up will allow you to at least check to see if the bloomin' thing works. If it makes NO NOISE, it's usually as simple as a tube, which you can check one by one at your local radio repair shop. When I was a kid they had a tester at every corner drugstore, but that was decades ago, before transistors replaced tubes! If it makes a "buzzing" sound, at least you know the vibrator works. Hemmings Motor news is full of ads for solid state vibrators. I put one in my '56 and it works like a dream. It will also shorten the warm up time down to about 20 seconds!

A great repair guy advertises in The Bugle most every month. His name is Alan Kriss. He's a BCA member from New Jersey. Phone is: 908-688-2092.

I've bought a radio and power antenna from him. He is also a wizard at repairing clocks.

Hope this helps!

Good luck,

Bob Leets <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest John Chapman]

My only addition to Bob's recommendations is to also purchase an inline fuse holder to go in the circuit between the positive battery terminal and the hot lead on the radio (or any other component being checked.) Use the same amp fuse as the car uses in the radio spot in the fuse box. This will prevent you from 'smoking' (quite literally, by the way) the radio should there be an internal short.

Cheers,

JMC

[raleets]

John,

Great idea! I forgot the fuse because my cheater cables have one built-in, so I didn't think to mention it. But.......having "smoked" a few items over the years myself <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> it's better to be safe than sorry. Most radios use a 20 amp fuse.

Since this is a family oriented thread, I can't mention the words that are expressed immediately following an electronic "smoking"!

Double cheers,

Bob

[WillBilly53]

OH MAN!

what an excellent reply! thank you so much!

i will let you know how it goes. tommorrow i will purchase the battery and fuse holder tommorrow!

[WillBilly53]

well i tested it out. i get nothing when i turn it on. and i tested the battery, it is good. i did however run speaker wire from my garage radio to the speaker in the sonomatic and it works fine! so now i'm on to searching for tubes. where do i get the correct tubes? i can find the 2 bigger tubes (12v6GT) but i have a little bit of trouble finding the 4 smaller ones. i think they are 309's but not sure cause the print indicating the type is rubbed off a lot on every tube.

any help=much appreciation!

thanks

[old-tank]

The most likely problem is the vibrator if it does not buzz...see post from Bob Leets. The vibrator is the largest metal cylinder and will be next the power transformer, a large 3" cube. When pulled out the vibrator has 3 or 4 prongs. Sometimes tapping on the vibrator will get it working...I have even carefully opened the case and filed the points to get them working. Vibrators or solid state replacements are available (the solid state ones will not buzz). If the vibrator is OK then the next most likely problem is the rectifier tube probably 0Z4 which is usually also a metal cylinder near the vibrator and power transformer. This tube can be tested with a volt meter: if the vibrator is working you should have +/- 100 volts AC coming from the output transformer and +/- 100 volts DC from one of the other pins. (Careful: You can get a nasty shock poking around in a radio)

For clarification the way these old radios work: 12 volt direct (DC)current goes in and powers the filaments of the tubes (a red glow that you can see in subdued light) and goes to the vibrator which changes the 12v DC to 12v alternating current (AC) which then goes to the power transformer and is bumped to ~100v AC, then this goes to the rectifier tube where it is converted to ~100v DC which then goes to the various tubes (tubes are electronic switches that have been replaced by transistors...your car radio has probably 8 tubes and your computer has thousands if not millions of transistors)

If you can get some of the tube numbers I can probably find a copy of a schematic.

Willie

[Guest imported_SKYSTHELIMIT]

If there is a classic guitar shop around they might be able to help you with the tubes. They usualy deal with the old and new guitar amps that have tubes in them and can probable find out what you have and order new ones for you.

[TomE_1953]

Will, Email me at home. I have everything you need (tube link, the tube listing and diagram as well as the address to buy new radio vibrator tubes (when I bought my '53 it came with two of them). On the box is the address where he got them.

Also in regards to your clock. Best to read your manual on 'How to Start Your Clock'. You have to touch power to it to wind it up and then pull the power and then hit the power again to get it going (something like that). As you know I just leave my clock at "4:10" (you know why). <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[WillBilly53]

bought a photofact sheet off ebay for the '53 sonomatic for 50-70 series buicks. got the correct tube numbers and bought all new tubes, new rectifier, and new solid state vibrator. light comes on, tubes light up and get warm. but still no sound. any other suggestions? there is one thing that puzzles me. there is only 1 wire connected to the speaker. anybody know why?

thanks!

[Guest imported_JPIndusi]

There usually are two wires going to the speaker, but I have also seen cases where they ground one side of the speaker voice coil to the speaker frame and this is attached to the radio frame. In this way the radio frame and speaker frame complete the circuit. So look for a disconnected wire that may hook up to the speaker. There are other possiblities, such as a burned out speaker voice coil or a burned out output transformer. This transformer takes the amplified signals from the 12V6 tubes and converts them to electrical signals that will work with the roughly 4 ohm speakers. There are still other possiblities that may require a radio repair specialist.

Good luck.

Joe

BCA 33493

[dennis passan]

on the 57 sonomatic i had, i remember it had a single wire also, then i found

out that the speaker connected to another area in the back.

i can't remember what that single wire was, maybe a light or something!

just make sure you take a good look at it, those connections

for the speaker were not obvious from what i can remember.

did you remove the original speaker connections yourself?

and was the radio previously working? just to make sure that

the single wire you have is the output to the speaker.

if so, then most likely the other speaker terminal must be

connected to the metal chassis of the radio.

when you turn it on, you will get a slight background buzzing

noise, this will indicate that you are on the correct connections.

maybe you have speaker trouble. get another speaker and try it.

atleast if you can get that background noise you'll be on the right trail.

getting a signal with music out of it will be your second round, the antenna

and the tuner knob will have to be on a strong local station just to get some type of output. i almost gave up, you had to be very precise, or you get nothing out of the speaker.

[WillBilly53]

well guess, what? it was the vibrator, after all. when i was putting the new one in, i apparently bent one of the pins as it did not go all the way into the socket. i found this out after i removed the front plates and so the pins trying to come through the socket on the other side. pulled it out straightened the pin and made sure it went all the way in. hooked it back up to the battery and bingo!

[Guest imported_SKYSTHELIMIT]

Glad to hear you got it working. Now if you want a real challange I'll send you mine. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest Albert]

I Picked up a 51-52 Chev Radio for a friends car two weeks ago for $25cdn, no sound when I tryed it at home. Monday morning i went to the library and got the sam's photofacts for it, then went down to the electronics surplus shop and bought replacement capactors for all the old paper ones, replace all those and worked right off, with the original tubes and viberator..

[WillBilly53]

that's awesome. i'd still like to clean the points in the original vibrator and get that "buzz" going.

thanks for all the help guys!

[raleets]

WillBilly,

Back to your question about only one wire to the speaker. Remember, the frame (sheet metal, etc.) of the car acts as the "ground", so only one wire is required, the "hot" wire. When the speaker is bolted into position it becomes grounded because it (or the bolts) are touching the metal. Therefore, GM saves money by not needing a "ground" wire.

On newer sound systems they utilize a "floating" ground, where the speakers are actually insulated from touching any kind of metal. If they DO touch the metal you cause a direct short and "smoke" the system in an instant! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Hope this answers your "missing wire" question.

Bob Leets <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[WillBilly53]

yes, thank you bob.

i thought it maybe some kind of "self-grounding" speaker or something like that. now it makes sense. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />