1930 145 Sedan - My First Prewar Car

[SparksNArcs]

While attending a New Year's party at the house of a member of my vintage radio club, it was mentioned that they were trying to downsize their collection; I can certainly relate. They asked me if I'd be interested in a car, and naturally I had to see what it was. Had maybe heard the name "Franklin" once, never seen one in person. I'm a VW guy, so air-cooled stuff intrigues me, and after mulling it over I decided to take the car off his hands. For all of $6000, I now own a 1930 Series 14 5 passenger sedan; needs some work. I'm told the original engine block had some damage, so a replacement case was located, and the engine rebuilt using that; all new bearings, line bored, connecting rods got the insert modification, etc. Some interior work was started, and the car is in primer, no body rot or damage that I could find. Some of the wood was replaced already, and I'm told only one piece needs replacing now (he already cut a new one, just needs fitting). I got a bunch of spare parts too, including the original locking coil and enough parts to assemble a complete gauge cluster. 

 

The goal for this car is to get it in driving condition first, then slowly chip away at the aesthetics. I have a Beetle that needs bodywork done, so this is a car I want to be able to take to car meetups in the meantime. Only holdup right now is getting the title transferred (engine number was used, happens to match a car in another state), and then moving it home. Will be posting plenty of photos as I go along, weather finally got nice so I can work outside!

[SparksNArcs]

The tag on the inside of the A pillar is from this Franklin dealer in Seattle. Unfortunately the original building was demolished around 2016 for some kind of apartment building, which is now vacant.

Edited May 13 by SparksNArcs (see edit history)

[BillDC]

Hi, question on the building photo, is that brick building the dealership before it was demolished? 

Thanks,

Bill

[Steve Braverman]

Welcome to the Franklin Club. These cars are addicting. Please join our Facebook group, it's very active. https://www.facebook.com/groups/251339938628026/

[PFitz]

Welcome, Sparks.

 

The Series 14s are a great car.

 

Right side air deflector, Bowen oiler mount, and fuel pump shows the engine base is from a late '30 or a '31. Number in the engine base above the generator will tell by comparing to the sequence in the Club's roster - a copy of which comes with a membership. Hopefully all the pieces needed to get it running, such as carburetor linkage parts, are with it.  

 

I second Steve's recommendation to join the Franklin Face Book group. Lots of knowledgeable Franklin people that can help you with what you need to know and help find parts.

 

Paul

 

 

[SparksNArcs]

11 hours ago, BillDC said:

Hi, question on the building photo, is that brick building the dealership before it was demolished? 

Thanks,

Bill

Yes, that is the only existing photo I could find of it. It was on the website regarding the building that replaced it.

[SparksNArcs]

5 hours ago, PFitz said:

Welcome, Sparks.

 

The Series 14s are a great car.

 

Right side air deflector, Bowen oiler mount, and fuel pump shows the engine base is from a late '30 or a '31. Number in the engine base above the generator will tell by comparing to the sequence in the Club's roster - a copy of which comes with a membership. Hopefully all the pieces needed to get it running, such as carburetor linkage parts, are with it.  

 

I second Steve's recommendation to join the Franklin Face Book group. Lots of knowledgeable Franklin people that can help you with what you need to know and help find parts.

 

Paul

 

 

As soon as I made the deal for the car, I joined the Franklin Club. I've spent hours pouring over the drawings and articles on the website, there's an incredible wealth of knowledge there; I'll join into the Facebook branch as well. The owner said the block was from around a 32', as it came with the "supercharger" (I have it, but it's pretty dinged up). I've got everything needed to make it run, I found the pedals and the carb linkage from the steering column (most of it anyway). Lots of parts were in boxes, and not well organized. 

[PFitz]

The 31-32 is a good engine with 5 more hp than the '30 (95hp) because of a more efficient cooling fan design.

 

However, you have a '30 U-3 carb on there. It is dangerous to use it with the super charger air housing because it will blow raw gasoline out of the high-speed air bleed when there is more pressure inside the carb than outside.

 

Paul

[Walt G]

Did you get the vertical metal shutters that mount inside the hood shell ? most important to have these function well as it affects the temperature of the engine.

[SparksNArcs]

1 hour ago, PFitz said:

The 31-32 is a good engine with 5 more hp than the '30 (95hp) because of a more efficient cooling fan design.

 

However, you have a '30 U-3 carb on there. It is dangerous to use it with the super charger air housing because it will blow raw gasoline out of the high-speed air bleed when there is more pressure inside the carb than outside.

 

Paul

While I do have the supercharger, the cooling shroud that is on the engine currently is from the original block, and has no opening to install the unit. I plan on setting the engine up as it would have been in 1930. As for the fan, I have an extra, but I don't know if one is different from the other; the one on the engine was rebuilt with new rubber and rivets.

[SparksNArcs]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

Did you get the vertical metal shutters that mount inside the hood shell ? most important to have these function well as it affects the temperature of the engine.

I did indeed, they were in the backseat of the car, visible in one of the photos I posted. I also have the thermostat, which while a bit tired, does still expand and contract.

[Walt G]

Another thing to check once you get it on the road is the kingpins in the front axle, an item often neglected and not thought about. With some effort you may be able to find a NOS pair in the box .

[PFitz]

2 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

While I do have the supercharger, the cooling shroud that is on the engine currently is from the original block, and has no opening to install the unit. I plan on setting the engine up as it would have been in 1930. As for the fan, I have an extra, but I don't know if one is different from the other; the one on the engine was rebuilt with new rubber and rivets.

The 31 and later style 15 inch fan and fan housing will swap directly onto a '30 engine to replace the '30's 12 inch fan. The 15 inch fan is more efficient. It uses five less horsepower and pushes more air. That is why the '31 and later engines are listed as 100hp verses the '30's 95hp.  You can use the '30 driver's side air duct with the later fan housing so no need to worry about to close up the super charger opening. I've done that swap for a few of my customers. 

 

If the fan hub was rebuilt with rivets and washers, like it was originally, then that was rebuilt by me. The picture below is what the 15 inch fan rebuilt hub looks like.

 

Paul

[Steve Braverman]

18 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

The owner said the block was from around a 32', as it came with the "supercharger" (I have it, but it's pretty dinged up). 

If the "supercharger" has a big dent on the bottom, it is probably from an Olympic. They were smashed at the factory to clear the steering box. Every one was smashed a little differently.

[SparksNArcs]

14 hours ago, Steve Braverman said:

If the "supercharger" has a big dent on the bottom, it is probably from an Olympic. They were smashed at the factory to clear the steering box. Every one was smashed a little differently.

Just looked at it, and that's exactly how it's dented. Will probably pass it on to someone who can make use of it.

[SparksNArcs]

Well, the title transfer is at a halt for the while being. Another vehicle has a VIN identical to the engine number in the Franklin, so now I have to drag the car to the State Patrol and have them sign off on using the body number as the new VIN. Assuming I can even manage to get an appointment in the first place, and I still haven't got the thing home yet! Have the move mostly planned out, and in the meantime I thought I'd share some photos. The upholstery in the car is rough, headliner was removed at the back to access the frame for wood repair. However, the previous owner decided to rebuild the seats with a hard-wearing Naugahyde, which I actually rather like the look of. The front seat only needs some pinch welt to finish off, the backseat is half done and needs the center armrest done all the way; I was provided with a roll of material and a plethora of stuffing and scraps, but I have never attempted that kind of work. I also collected all of the parts for the shutter assembly, which needs some work. The bottom piece had all of its pins removed, so I'll need to fabricate replacements. The bottoms of each vane are also a bit rough, either elongated holes or torn at the edges. Last, I brought home the headlight buckets and what should be almost all of the window trim, minus a piece or two from the rear windows which I think are still in the car. I was also given a pair of Parabeam headlights, which I'm not sure if they fit earlier Series Franklins, they are roughly 12" lenses.

[PFitz]

Why not use the factory "chassis number" on the firewall tag ? I can see it on the firewall in one of your pictures. That is what most states use to register the car and not the engine, or Walker body number, which are different than the chassis number.

 

The chassis number should start with a 45 then a dash, then the chassis number, then the body type which your sedan likely is L11, meaning a lefthand drive sedan. There is a Club member that sells reproduction firewall tags, listed in the Club's website Parts For Sale section.

 

I have duplicates of the factor era style number/letter stamps and will stamp the number in a new plate free of charge to Franklin Club members that send it return postage prepaid. 

 

Here is a picture of a new plate of a 1930 Series 147.

Paul

Edited May 22 by PFitz (see edit history)

[SparksNArcs]

3 hours ago, PFitz said:

Why not use the factory "chassis number" on the firewall tag ? I can see it on the firewall in one of your pictures. That is what most states use to register the car and not the engine, or Walker body number, which are different than the chassis number.

 

The chassis number should start with a 45 then a dash, then the chassis number, then the body type which your sedan likely is L11, meaning a lefthand drive sedan. There is a Club member that sells reproduction firewall tags, listed in the Club's website Parts For Sale section.

 

I have duplicates of the factor era style number/letter stamps and will stamp the number in a new plate free of charge to Franklin Club members that send it return postage prepaid. 

 

Here is a picture of a new plate of a 1930 Series 147.

Paul

Sorry, I should have been more clear in my original post. I do intend to use the Chassis number from the tag, but I can't just waltz into the DOL and get them to transfer the title, the state patrol has to validate that number by seeing the car in person and authorize the DOL to create a new title with that number. I really hate the hoops I have to jump through for simple crap in this state. 

[SparksNArcs]

At long last, the Franklin has been dragged from its resting spot for the last 24 years and transferred to my now cramped garage! Naturally it decided to rain the past few days, but we managed to miss the worst of it during loading/ unloading. The plan is thus:

 

1. Get the engine free, get it running

2. Make it move 

3. Make it stop

 

Aesthetics are secondary to enjoyment of driving for me right now, but I am planning on slowly painting things and improving the interior.

[hook]

11 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

At long last, the Franklin has been dragged from its resting spot for the last 24 years and transferred to my now cramped garage! Naturally it decided to rain the past few days, but we managed to miss the worst of it during loading/ unloading. The plan is thus:

 

1. Get the engine free, get it running

2. Make it move 

3. Make it stop

 

Aesthetics are secondary to enjoyment of driving for me right now, but I am planning on slowly painting things and improving the interior.

By the looks of its fit on that U-Haul trailer, I'd say it was a good thing it was a 145 and not a 147. Can't wait to see more photos.

 

Bill

[SparksNArcs]

5 hours ago, hook said:

By the looks of its fit on that U-Haul trailer, I'd say it was a good thing it was a 145 and not a 147. Can't wait to see more photos.

 

Bill

I crossed my fingers hard when I looked up the specs for that trailer and compared the wheelbase lengths (I used a 1981 3/4T Chevy truck as a stand-in for the online reservation). I've currently got some Marvel Mystery Oil in the cylinders and all over the valvetrain, so after work today I'm going to see how it did sitting overnight. Dipstick shows clean oil up to the full mark, but it reeks of decades old gas. Will be ordering up a full gasket set from Olson so I can drop the pan and do some inspecting on the crankshaft. Engine was previously rebuilt (bearings, valves, all the expensive stuff thankfully), and maybe run more than once before it was parked.

[SparksNArcs]

Update on the engine: nothing was stuck, I just couldn't rotate it with the crank handle. Barred it over from the flywheel gently, and with all of the rocker arm screws backed out in case of stuck valves (don't appear to be any). A battery and charger are on the way, but won't show up til' monday so I'll do some engine bay cleanup in the meantime.

 

Also, I noticed this metal under the rear windows bulging out, apparently due to rust forming underneath. Has anyone else dealt with this sort of thing before?

[hook]

5 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

Update on the engine: nothing was stuck, I just couldn't rotate it with the crank handle. Barred it over from the flywheel gently, and with all of the rocker arm screws backed out in case of stuck valves (don't appear to be any). A battery and charger are on the way, but won't show up til' monday so I'll do some engine bay cleanup in the meantime.

 

Also, I noticed this metal under the rear windows bulging out, apparently due to rust forming underneath. Has anyone else dealt with this sort of thing before?

That may be due to some wood frame problem.

[Steve Braverman]

Before you try to rotate the engine, get all the valves nice and loose. Make sure they move freely or you will break something. Clean oil on the dipstick means little as the sludge will all be sitting on the bottom. Drop the pan before you run it.

I don't think Olsens will have a gasket set, but Jeff Hasslen definitely does. 

I recently brought a 147 back to life after a 20+ year coma. These are great cars.

[PFitz]

7 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

Update on the engine: nothing was stuck, I just couldn't rotate it with the crank handle. Barred it over from the flywheel gently, and with all of the rocker arm screws backed out in case of stuck valves (don't appear to be any). A battery and charger are on the way, but won't show up til' monday so I'll do some engine bay cleanup in the meantime.

 

Also, I noticed this metal under the rear windows bulging out, apparently due to rust forming underneath. Has anyone else dealt with this sort of thing before?

Yes, I've dealt with those moldings many times in my restoration work. Those moldings on the door are an aluminum casting with nails imbedded in them. Earlier Walker bodies even used applied moldings for the belt line around the back of the body. As large stampings became more common place, they did away with applied moldings in later cars by forming the moldings and body belt line as part of the sheet metal skins. 

 

The moldings were cast with nail holes formed like mini volcanos. The nails were driven in and the "volcano" was hammered over to fill in the hole. Then they were filed/sanded smooth. 

 

Getting the cast moldings off without trashing them is extremely difficult. There are steel nails about every inch in two staggard rows. Because the nails are driven through the door skin, when they rust and swell it jams them into the sheet metal and wood underneath. It takes the force of corrosion under the molding to push them out like that. 

 

Try using dental picks to scrap out the loose rust. Then wick a corrosion converting primer, such as "Corroless"- thinned with mineral spirits - into the joint.

 

You'll need to remove the window glass. Pull the molding flat with clamps to wood blocks against the wood framing inside and not the metal edges.

 

Then drill and countersink the molding for number 4 stainless steel flat head screws about 1-1/4 inch long. 

 

Get some soft aluminum wire like the size used for hanging chain link fencing on poles. Cut it into pieces about 1/8 inch longer than the screw-filled holes and hammer it in near-flush. The soft aluminum wire "slugs" will fill and jam in the hole. Then just file and sand smooth for paint.

 

Using any body filler or epoxy to fill the screw holes will always show because of different expansion rates of aluminum and filler. By filling the screw holes with soft aluminum, as was done originally, that does not happen. 

 

Paul

[SparksNArcs]

8 hours ago, Steve Braverman said:

Before you try to rotate the engine, get all the valves nice and loose. Make sure they move freely or you will break something. Clean oil on the dipstick means little as the sludge will all be sitting on the bottom. Drop the pan before you run it.

I don't think Olsens will have a gasket set, but Jeff Hasslen definitely does. 

I recently brought a 147 back to life after a 20+ year coma. These are great cars.

I tapped each of the valves with a hard rubber mallet to ensure they all moved and returned freely, but I'm still being cautious with them. Olson's does have a full gasket set for the side-draft engines (they also say they have some stuff for the earlier sixes), it's currently about $450 for the whole thing, and it's local to me! I'll drain and drop the pan this weekend to see what lurks inside the case.

[PFitz]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:30 AM, hook said:

By the looks of its fit on that U-Haul trailer, I'd say it was a good thing it was a 145 and not a 147. Can't wait to see more photos.

 

Bill

A 147 would fit,.... just barely. I rented the same U-Haul trailer when I moved Moffatt's 32 Speedster to my shop. The rear tire was half on-half off. I strapped it down additionally with my ratchet car trailer straps. Looked scary as heck but it was fine for the whole trip from West Stockbridge to my shop in central NY. 

[SparksNArcs]

17 hours ago, PFitz said:

A 147 would fit,.... just barely. I rented the same U-Haul trailer when I moved Moffatt's 32 Speedster to my shop. The rear tire was half on-half off. I strapped it down additionally with my ratchet car trailer straps. Looked scary as heck but it was fine for the whole trip from West Stockbridge to my shop in central NY. 

The part that didn't sit well with me or my Dad was that the front tire strap-downs were clearly not made for 19" wheels; not a lot of strap left to feed through the ratchet. We used every chain and strap we had leftover to hold it in place, thankfully it wasn't a long trip!

[PFitz]

5 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

The part that didn't sit well with me or my Dad was that the front tire strap-downs were clearly not made for 19" wheels; not a lot of strap left to feed through the ratchet. We used every chain and strap we had leftover to hold it in place, thankfully it wasn't a long trip!

Ran into the same transporting that 32. I was glad I had brought my shop set of heavy-duty ratchet straps. I'd hate to trailer even a smaller tire modern car with just tire straps. 

 

Driving home from a car show I stopped on a NJ highway to help a Bagatti owner who's type 37 had the front wheels hop over that silly front deck ramp because the tire straps were not strong enough when he was cut off by another driver and had to jam on the breaks.

 

Paul

[SparksNArcs]

 

Decided to set the valve lash today. Since the block currently in the car is from 1933, I referenced the owner's manual for that year which gives a starting point of 0.035" ish cold. Found that with the spark plugs out I could actually spin the engine over with the hand crank. Oil pump seems to be working as well, a random unconnected line going towards the front seat started dripping after I cranked it a few times.

[Steve Braverman]

That random oil line is probably supposed to be connected to the oil pressure gauge.

[SparksNArcs]

9 hours ago, Steve Braverman said:

That random oil line is probably supposed to be connected to the oil pressure gauge.

That's what I figured, but the size of the line seemed a bit too large for that. I believe I have the remnants of the original line with some of the other parts in a box; it's probably half the diameter.

[SparksNArcs]

Spent today squeezed under the engine, managed to drop the pan and drain the oil. Spent some time scraping the sludge out of the bottom, then poured in some degreaser and used an old toothbrush to scrub the whole thing clean. Gasket surface had junk on it, so I used a paint removal wheel on my die grinder and cleaned the pan off, will need to carefully scrape the block later before it goes back together. I've got a new roll of gasket material, so tomorrow I'll pick up a punch set and get the lower end buttoned back up. I also got a new set of plug wires from Brillman, the fit and finish are excellent, and a new set of 00 gauge custom battery cables are on their way. Fingers crossed, by the middle of next week I should be able to properly test fire this thing with the starter! I can only hand crank it with two spark plugs installed, but it does fire and spin.

[Steve Braverman]

Looks very clean. Jeff Hasslen has pan gaskets ready to go, they fit well and will save you some work.

[SparksNArcs]

2 hours ago, Steve Braverman said:

Looks very clean. Jeff Hasslen has pan gaskets ready to go, they fit well and will save you some work.

Already done, I'm no stranger to making gaskets! I will eventually need some replacements for the intake/ exhaust system and the rocker covers from Jeff, but for now I just want to seal the block back up and get some fresh oil in it. Back to the garage floor!

Edited June 17 by SparksNArcs (see edit history)

[Steve Braverman]

8 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

Already done, I'm no stranger to making gaskets! I will eventually need some replacements for the intake/ exhaust system and the rocker covers from Jeff, but for now I just want to seal the block back up and get some fresh oil in it. Back to the garage floor!

Wow! That looks perfect!

[PFitz]

14 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

Already done, I'm no stranger to making gaskets! I will eventually need some replacements for the intake/ exhaust system and the rocker covers from Jeff, but for now I just want to seal the block back up and get some fresh oil in it. Back to the garage floor!

Well done.

 

That is exactly the way I've been making them for many years - one piece from a roll of Fel-Pro rubberized cork. Brush on a coating of Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on all mating surfaces, let set for an hour and no oil leaks ever.

 

Paul

[SparksNArcs]

7 hours ago, Steve Braverman said:

Wow! That looks perfect!

I used the pan as a template for the outer edges and hole positioning, then I took the pieces of the old gasket and traced around them for the inside edges. A cheap set of Hazard Fraught hole punches and it's off to the races!

[SparksNArcs]

35 minutes ago, PFitz said:

Well done.

 

That is exactly the way I've been making them for many years - one piece from a roll of Fel-Pro rubberized cork. Brush on a coating of Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on all mating surfaces, let set for an hour and no oil leaks ever.

 

Paul

I use Gaskacinch or similar for that sort of thing, without it installing gaskets like this would be a nightmare as the cork wants to curl up at the ends; I didn't have to correct the gasket position once during assembly thanks to the stuff.

[PFitz]

7 hours ago, SparksNArcs said:

I use Gaskacinch or similar for that sort of thing, without it installing gaskets like this would be a nightmare as the cork wants to curl up at the ends; I didn't have to correct the gasket position once during assembly thanks to the stuff.

That's why I let the Permatex set for an hour to tack-up enough to hold the gasket during installation.