GasWorksGarage Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 We have a 1958 Packard hawk 289 auto. We rebuilt the engine. Bolted auto trans to the engine and now the engine will not turn. Unbolted the trans and it turns freely. Any idea how the transmission will cause this? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roysboystoys Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 My guess is your converter. isn't seated al the way in the trans. Turn it while you push back on it. it should drop in place when it lines up. It is possible to damage the pump if it's not lined up Good luck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasWorksGarage Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 We pulled the engine and transmission back out and I can turn the input shaft by hand but not the pump shaft. Its frozen. It seemed like it seated we did turn the crank to line up and it dropped into palce the bolts went in no trouble. Can I service / replace the pump without tearing the transmission completely down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 (edited) What do you mean "pump shaft"? There is no pump shaft. There are three things or steps you need to engage the torque converter to, the input shaft, the stator shaft. and the oil pump. The outermost spline is the input shaft and should be able to turn with the transmission out. The second spline is a support for the stator and is attached very solidly to the transmission. It cannot turn. The oil pump drive is two slots and is completely out of view, way behind the torque converter seal. If those slots weren't engaged, things would bind up and probably damage the pump if you bolted it together and tightened the bolts. In my opinion, don't try to stab the transmission into the bellhousing like a manual unless there is something about a 58 Packard that REQUIRES you to do that. I don't know if you did that or not, but it would raise the complication for getting all 3 steps engaged by a lot. If possible, assemble the bellhousing and torque converter to the transmission on the bench so you can feel the oil pump slots drop in. Then install the whole thing to the engine like a more modern transmission with a bellhousing that you cannot remove. Has this transmission ever worked while it was in your possession? If the answer is "no", I would HIGHLY recommend dropping the pan (don't flip it over, keep the transmission right side up until the pan is off), and having very close look at the center rib of the case. They break in use, especially older ones, and if the center rib is broken you won't have any reverse. Fixing that requires complete disassembly to replace the case. You definitely want to know it's OK before putting any work into the transmission. If it's OK, adjust the bands while you are in there. That is normal maintenance and is not optional. You have to have the pan off to adjust one of them. You also need a precision steel spacer, I believe it is 1/4". See the shop manual. If you don't have the shop manual, get one. Many of these transmissions use the same settings but not all. You definitely want the correct settings to avoid damage. 1 hour ago, GasWorksGarage said: Can I service / replace the pump without tearing the transmission completely down? Yes, because the front pump is the first piece to come out through the front. If I were doing it I would clean out the pan, put it back on for a dust cover, and then arrange to tip the transmission nose up. The input shaft stays with the transmission (push it in) because it is part of the front drum, and if I remember correctly, the stator support comes out with the front pump. See the shop manual to know for sure. Cleanliness is everything. Don't open it up in a dusty area. ***Absolutely don't use shop rags***. Every clean part you have been working on gets blasted with solvent, blown off with air, and dunked in clean transmission fluid or transmission assembly lube as it goes together. You wouldn't believe how much havoc a tiny bit of shop rag lint can cause. Edited September 13, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasWorksGarage Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 Yes the trans was rebuilt in 2019. engine and trans pulled for body and paint work they sat in the corner of the garage for 2 years. I have a manual but appreantly not a good one as its very vague on somethings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasWorksGarage Posted September 13, 2023 Author Share Posted September 13, 2023 Its the outer most shaft the input shaft we can't turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, GasWorksGarage said: Its the outer most shaft the input shaft we can't turn. But that won't stop the engine from turning. Anytime you are in gear at at stoplight idling that shaft is stopped cold. 7 hours ago, GasWorksGarage said: Bolted auto trans to the engine and now the engine will not turn. Unbolted the trans and it turns freely. Both the torque converter and the transmission itself would have to be seized to make that happen if the input shaft were responsible. There has to be more to this story. Edited September 13, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 8 hours ago, GasWorksGarage said: Its the outer most shaft the input shaft we can't turn. The outermost shaft is the stator support. It doesn't turn. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Oldtech said: The outermost shaft is the stator support. It doesn't turn. Oops, I thought he meant the one sticking out the furthest. Either way, as you say, the stator support doesn't turn. It won't stop the engine. We might need some clarification from @GasWorksGarage . Edited September 14, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasWorksGarage Posted September 14, 2023 Author Share Posted September 14, 2023 5 hours ago, Bloo said: Oops, I thought he meant the one sticking out the furthest. Either way, as you say, the stator support doesn't turn. It won't stop the engine. We might need some clarification from @GasWorksGarage . Ok so the Stator support doesn't turn. So what could be locking up the engine when the transmission is bolted up? If I had the torque converter out of alignment with the pump would that cause the engine to not turn? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) Yes, if the converter dogs are not seated in the pump it won't turn, but might also damage something in the pump, although they are pretty robust. Another thing... Check that there isn't a bolt on the wrong place like the starter. I have seen too long a bolt installed where it jams against the flex plate or something and locks everything solid. The converter should spin freely when seated properly in the pump and the trans in place before the bolts are installed in the flex plate. Edited September 14, 2023 by Oldtech (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMB Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) I had this same issue with a 57 Golden Hawk. Short story the rebuilder installed the stator backwards. Marks could be seen in convertor where it contacted the transmission shaft. Engine turned until I tried to tighten the transmission to bell housing bolts. Edited September 16, 2023 by SMB (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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