ILIKECARS53 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 Hope everyone had a nice 4th of July. On to the next issue. Since I had the steering wheel and horn trim off to fix the turn signals, I decided to replace the horn trim with one which was in better condition than the original. I took it apart and cleaned it etc. Put it on the car and reconnected the battery and jumped about 10 ft. The horn went off and scared the hell out of me. Was not expecting that. Took it off to make sure the wire was not frayed and making contact. No issue there. Grounded the end of the wire and the horn worked as it should. Put the horn button back on and the horn went off as soon as I touched the steering wheel. I have the shop manual and there is a diagram of the horn button but it is very difficult to read. This car has the 3 spoke steering wheel with the matching 3 spoke horn, not the one with the horn button in the center of the steering wheel. What am I doing wrong. Did I put the horn button back together incorrectly. There is not much there. A few insulators, 2 springs and a couple of nuts. Help!!! Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 The adjustment is a bit tricky. I also changed to a new horn button a while back, and I unfortunately didn't pay attention to how things were positioned before I took everything apart. As you say, there's not much there. But the key is the adjustment of the three nuts that hold the bottom plate onto the back of the button. It's been long enough so I can't remember exactly how it works. I just remember that if the nuts are too tight, the horn will honk all the time, and if they are too loose, the horn won't honk at all when you push on the horn ring. Or vice-versa -- I can't remember. How's that for help! 😄 Anyhow, if you examine it closely, I think you will figure it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 Thanks Neil for the tip. Will check it out today. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 6, 2021 Author Share Posted July 6, 2021 Neil, I may not have the button reassembled correctly. Do you remember how it goes back together?? I have the manual but it is very hard to see the diagram clearly. Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Jim, I think I remember the basic idea, but it would be very helpful if you could post a photo of the parts. I agree that the diagram in the manual is completely useless. If I recall correctly, the three-spoked horn ring is held in place on the back of the center hub by a brass plate that is attached to the hub with three nuts that screw onto three studs. A large spring goes in between the brass plate and the center of the horn ring so that the ring is held in tension up against the center hub, but can be "rocked" when you push the ring which, in turn, causes one of the spokes to make contact with the back of the steering wheel hub creating a ground and sounding the horn. Does that make sense? And, as I said before, it's the adjustment of the three nuts that is critical. The brass plate is "hot" from contact with the spring-loaded end of the wire that comes up the inside of the steering column, and the current is passed from the brass plate to the spokes of the horn ring. But if I remember correctly, it is the adjustment of those three nuts that controls the distance between the spokes and the back of the steering wheel hub. If it's too close, the spokes will be in contact as soon as you tighten up the three bolts that hold the center hub to the wheel, and you will have constant honking. If it's too far, you won't get proper contact even if you're pushing on the ring. If you can post some photos, that would be a big help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Is a rubber donut washer part of the assembly? My 1939 Roadmaster has one. It is like mouse pad material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 No rubber donut that I recall. There are fiber washers on the three studs to insulate the brass plate from the center hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 1940 may have been the last year for the rubber donut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 Neil, Will be sending some pics today. Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) Neil, Some pics on how I put the horn together. If you see something not right, please let me know. Plain horn button, nothing done. Upside down. The rubber wedges that go under the horn spoke and the two sets of insulators over the studs. Light spring under the horn ring. Horn ring in place. Over the spring and studs through the holes. Will continue in another post. Thanks Jim Edited July 7, 2021 by ILIKECARS53 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) Continuing the horn assembly. Paper insulator and heavy spring on top of the horn ring. Placing plate on top of the heavy spring. pushing down the retaining plate. I did not take a picture of the little nuts on the studs, no insulators under the nuts. But are these the nuts that need to be adjusted. If you want to see more pics let me know. Thanks for all your help Neil. Jim Edited July 7, 2021 by ILIKECARS53 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Again, I'm not certain about this, but I think you have a more basic problem than I thought, and it has to do with those insulators. The brass plate is "hot" from contact from the spring-loaded wire that comes out of the top of the steering column and fits into the recess in the center. Consequently, the plate has to be insulated from what we are calling the "horn button" (actually the hub assembly that fits on the top of the steering wheel with the plastic horn button in the middle). If the plate is not properly insulated, current will be grounding through the top hub assembly to the bottom hub of the steering wheel through the three mounting screws that hold the top and bottom hub together, and the horn will be constantly sounding (which is what you have). So the plate has to be completely insulated from the three studs on the top hub. You mention the "two sets of insulators over the studs" in your second photo. I think the outer, larger fiber washer has to go on top of the plate, between the plate and the nut, in order to insulate the plate. Am I making sense? And the nuts are not conventional, solid metal nuts, correct? Please take all my comments with a grain of salt since I'm still not confident I'm remembering this correctly. However, you have now made me sufficiently curious that I'm going to pull the top hub and horn ring off my car and take a look. (See what you've done! 😄) I will report back later today. The nuts that hold the plate onto those studs still have to be adjusted properly, but as I say, I think you have a more basic problem to deal with first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Okay, my memory of all this was actually pretty good. Here are four pics that I hope will help. First, the back of the hub showing the fiber washers under the nuts to insulate the brass plate from the top hub assembly. (You will see that a former owner lost one of the fiber washers and substituted a nylon washer instead.) Second, another photo of the same assembly but showing how the horn ring (suspended between the two springs shown in your photos) can be rocked forward so that one of the spokes makes contact with the brass plate). The nuts must be just loose enough to enable the ring to be moved this short distance. Third, a view of the assembled hub showing the horn ring in resting position. The three spokes are pressed against the rubber wedges by the spring and not making contact with the brass plate And fourth, a view of one of the spokes when it is pressed towards the wheel. The spoke is now making a connection (ground) between the "hot" brass plate on the inside of the top hub and the edge of the bottom hub of the steering wheel under it. Result: the horn sounds. Hope this helps. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 Neil, you are going way beyond helping!!!! I will change how I put it together and will let you know tomorrow. Thanks Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) On 7/5/2021 at 12:07 PM, neil morse said: The adjustment is a bit tricky. I also changed to a new horn button a while back, and I unfortunately didn't pay attention to how things were positioned before I took everything apart. As you say, there's not much there. But the key is the adjustment of the three nuts that hold the bottom plate onto the back of the button. It's been long enough so I can't remember exactly how it works. I just remember that if the nuts are too tight, the horn will honk all the time, and if they are too loose, the horn won't honk at all when you push on the horn ring. Or vice-versa -- I can't remember. How's that for help! 😄 Anyhow, if you examine it closely, I think you will figure it out. Yes, that is exactly how I reemember it, too ! Very finickey adjustment, so you have to hold your jaw "just right" when tightening the screws, or it may decide to blow when you make a turn - maybe right, but maybe left, (depending on your politics?). Edited July 8, 2021 by Marty Roth (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKECARS53 Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 Well after I put the horn ring back together properly, while calling myself every name in the book for being such a dumb a**, it worked. The horn did not go off as soon as I installed the ring as it did before. It took about 15 minutes of adjusting the plate to get all 3 spokes to work correctly. Neil, again thank you for all your help. And now onto the next issue. Jim 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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