Newbie with Buick 24-6-49

[TomN]

Hello everyone,

 

My name is Tomas, I live in Slovakia (Europe). I would like to introduce myself and especially our Buick 24-6-49, which my father and me have bought early last year in Italy. As indicated by the type designation it is model 1924, 7 passenger Touring, build on 128 inches wheelbase chassis. According to the engine number the vehicle has been built at the end of 1923 or early 1924, labels at intake and exhaust manifold state the date 17^th and 18^th October 1923. Chassis nr. is unknown, label is missing.

 

Regarding the vehicle history we only know that it was imported from USA to Italy in middle eighties and since then was part of some local collection.

 

The vehicle is visually in quite good condition and almost complete, but not completely original, it is clear that some work has been already done on it. There is new upholstery, body was repainted, there is not original carburettor and fuel pump, another generator has been fitted, etc. Unfortunately it had engine damage, the cylinder block has been damaged by frozen water. The cracks in the block have been welded recently, but after the first start we have noticed the water pump leaks massively and the engine blows the coolant immediately after the start, so probably also the head gasket is broken. I hope no more damage is there. There is also some problem with starter which cannot properly match the flywheel gearing during the engagement. Moreover the motor-generator has cracked body.

 

The vehicle has also one interesting feature, on the front end there is some device, almost certainly intended as a shock absorber. I have seen something like this never before, or at other vehicle. The gadget is made very precisely and professionally, there are also two labels on, but unfortunately are unreadable.

 

Our first goal is to fix the engine, then to repair other minor problems and finally return it to its original, or period correct condition as much as possible.

 

We have quite good experience with classic vehicles, but we are totally new to Buick, so we are still learning. Also Buicks, especially from pre-war era, are very rare here in Central Europe. So far I have bought reprints of Reference Book for Six cylinder models, 1924 Buick 6-Cylinder Repair Shop Manual as well as 1916-1932 Buick Master Parts Book and going to buy 1624 Parts Book, but still looking for more information. I have found many useful information also here at this forum so I am sure, that will visit it in future more often, probably also with some questions.

 

Kind Regards

Tomas

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

WELCOME!   Nice car.

 

  Ben

[dibarlaw]

Welcome Tomas!

 It looks as if your car is a McLaughlin Buick from Canada. The style of the top bows and the wooden dashboard confirm this.

 Great apperance with the steel disk wheels.

 The shock absorbers look to be similar to Westinghouse style. They were used on many large cars in the teens to early 1920s.

 I am so sorry about your engine problems. I have been working on my very similar 1925-45 and still have to make the new water pump shaft and fit new bearings(bushings). When the shaft and bushings are badly worn the packing does not help in the leaking.  Dean Tryon with the 1915-1918 McLaughlin Buick group newsletter has had new water pump impellors made cast in brass.

 I had provided an example from a spare 1924 6 cylinder pump to use as a pattern.

  

                                                                            Finish maching the new impellor.

 You said your starter generator has been changed and has a cracked body. This can account for the starter pinion gear not meshing properly. I can explane the sliding starter gear problen in another post if you wish.

   

I recently had the same issue and there are adjustments to the mechanism that need to be made. There is no information in the Shop Manuals about this.

I would adress the starter issue first.

 I do have a spare Starter Generator for the 1924 engine. D-268 But you would need someone to go through it to make sure it is good. If you could take some photos of the Starter Generator where the crack is we may be able to help.

 

 

 

[TomN]

Hello Ben and Larry , 
thank you for the warm welcome, I am glad you like the car.

 

Dear Larry,
thank you very much for your kind help and many useful information!

Interesting idea about McLaughlin Buick, I have to check the car more. Am I right the “top bows” are the roof bars, please?

You are absolutely right about the shock absorbers, with knowing the Westinghouse name I was able to recognize their designation on damaged label. Thank you.

Regarding the water pump, I am prepared to make a new shaft, condition of the current one is very poor and also to replace the bushings. Thank you for the information about Dean and for the added pictures, if the impellor will be available I will rather use a new one.

Sorry for the confusing information, the car really had another generator fitted, but it was additional unit driven from the pulley added in front of the water pump.
The Starter Generator itself looks to be original. The crack and the hole are on its side adjacent to the engine, so I do not know yet how big they are. I am going to remove it in the coming days.

I will be very grateful for any help, whether with Starter Generator itself, or for further information about sliding gear and its adjustment.

Thank you very much
Kind Regards
Tomas
 

[dibarlaw]

Tomas:

 Thank you for this photo. Quite an ingenious generator adaptation. Unfortunately this design would cause the water pump shaft and bushings to wear much faster than as originally engineered. Not designed for lateral thrust. The impellor I used for the pattern was from the spare 1924 unit I had.

 The difference between the pump for my 1925 (Top) and the 1924 pump (Bottom)

 It would have taken a lot of work to pull the pump apart to ad the generator pulley!

 The "roof bars" we call top bows here in the USA.

 From your photo I can see you also have had a downdraft carburetor set up. Manifold flipped.

1924 Manifold side. Right Hand drive.

Photo of a 1924 Model 49 engine Starter generator side. Note the Klaxon horn mounted through firewall.

 The 4 silver colored screws above the horn is where the coil was originally mounted up in side the dash.

 We are all here to help.

 

 

[Marty Roth]

Welcome, Tomas,

That is a nice car, 

You may wish to explore repairing the original Starter-Generator, as your neatly designed generator drive will cause excessive wear to the water pump drive shaft and related parts. The starter-generator can, with proper information, be made fully functional, and works well as designed.

 

Best wishes for you to enjoy your Buick/McLaughlin

[dibarlaw]

Tomas:

 When you get the starter generator (S/G) off please send us photos of the damaged area.

At this point I think you should move this thread to the Buick Pre-War forum as you will have better exposure and more help.

 

 The removal of either the water pump or starter generator can be effected independently. The water pump is removed by this proceedure. This is how I have done it (multiple times) and have found it works well for me.

 That is, if you can start at this point in the photo.

1. Loosening hose connections. Try to move hose so as to free the pump.

2.Remove S/G shaft to coupler cover at the rear of the water pump shaft. This sheet metal plate covers the Coupler. There should be a taper pin at this point to drive out. (On your 1924 the taper pin may be driven out first.)That would allow the coupler to slide toward the the pump. (That probably only happened when the car was nearly new). Wth years of rust and grime on the shaft it will take some extra prying work to get it to move.  

The 24 pump on the right. My 1925 pump on the left. Pump support is toward the front on the 24. The 25 has a bearing at the rear. Oldham coupler plate at bottom of photo.

3. After the pump is removed the loose plate(OLDHAM COUPLER) will be inside the distributer housing at the end of the S/G. More on this later.

4. The front pump bearing housing has 3 bolts to remove.  Before removing the bolts, the cast hex collar needs to be unscrewedand moved back toward the pump. This is a left hand thread!

5. Inside this cap is a collar with another taper pin that will need to be driven out.

 This is where the pinned collar was.

 This will alow the the front bearing housing to slide back from the engine.

6. Remove main pump collar cap that secures the pump to the crankcase.

7. Pump can be lifted at the rear(S/G). Once clear of the S/G the assembly can be pulled back and up to disengage the timing gear at the front.(You may also have to loosen the front packing nut to get clear of the pump suport bracket.)

 It sounds easy!

But of course you will have to remove that interesting later generator support structure first! Good luck.

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by dibarlaw
spelling (see edit history)

[TomN]

Dear Larry,

 

Thank you very much for your further help, many useful information and pictures. I really appreciate it.

 

I agree the modified design with the added pulley causes extra lateral load to bushings and moreover does not allow the packing replacement as well as worsens access to spark plugs, so definitely I would like to run with the original generator only.

 

You are right, the original updraft Marvel is replaced by some downdraft Zenith from the later era and the intake manifold is flipped upside down. Carburettor is fed by electric pump instead of Warner vacuum pump. My aim is to find and install original components, but this is for a longer time.

(This is the view before and after the block repair)

 

Thank you also for the note about horn and original coil placement. The current horn should be from 1929 Buick, but there is still blinded original hole in the firewall. I hope I will find the original Klaxon and will install it there.

 

Larry, thank you very much for detailed recommendations about the water pump removal, it will help me a lot.

I already started the job, but like you have predicted the coupler is rusted on the shaft, so my progress will be little slower now.

 

I will move the discussion to the Buick Pre-War forum as you have suggested.

 

Thank you very much again

Kind Regards

Tomas

[TomN]

Dear Marty,

 

thank you for the warm welcome, I am glad you like the car.

 

Regarding the added generator I want to maintain the original design, both from a technical point of view and because it is original.

 

You have mentioned McLaughlin too, so I have to properly investigate its possible Canadian roots. But first it has to be reliable runner.

 

Thank you very much

Kind Regards

Tomas