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1936 Chrysler Airstream C-8 Convertible Restoration


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HI Eric,

 

Yes, i will take detailed images of all the linages that connect to the transmission to show how they connect and operate.  You should see then here today.

 

Joe

10 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

Nice work Joe,

     Can you please take a few detailed pictures of the complete clutch linkage, pedal to fork, once its installed. Nether of my cars were assembled when I got them.  I had to make the linkage.  I found the coupe is different than the sedan, becasue of the pedals are in a different position.  Add to this the overdrive unit, and no one had any idea where I would fine parts or info.  Maybe seeing your I can fine tune what I did to look better....

 

Also, I found a spring from my clutch fork area, and have no idea where that is suppose to go.   Any ideas?

 

 

THanks

ERIC

 

 

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Good morning all,

 

I have run into a bit of a problem and I am hoping that I am simply missing something obvious.  I am trying to get the clutch fork on to the ball that it pivots on inside the transmission, but for some reason, I cannot push the clutch fork towards the passenger side of the car to get it to pop on to the pivot ball.

 

I have attached a few images that may help.  I would appreciate any suggestions.. I cannot imagine that this should be this difficult.

 

Thanks so much, 

 

Joe

 

 

E52FD674-9A60-401A-8767-19B91E51C0AC.jpeg

58622920-DEE8-4BCD-ACD5-4D6069B97BF1.jpeg

1F61B780-706C-4BA8-80E0-8E374F69AD4F.jpeg

4CC21440-81B5-4936-A774-91F3B9DAF4C8.jpeg

F1069CA4-DABB-4DF6-B2B0-3F99A297570C.jpeg

13CF691C-7FB0-48ED-90E4-F0D6E4E79027.jpeg

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I finally got it.  I ended up having to devise a way to get some leverage on the end of the clutch fork and then pry it over towards the passenger side of the car.  The throw out bearing carrier and bearing need to be as flush as you can get them against the pressure plate, and the clutch fork needs to be as far forward against the bell housing as possible.  For the record, I actually had to remove the leather boot so that the rivet holding it to the clutch fork could retract the thickness of the leather.  I would have removed the rivet next to allow the clutch fork to get as close to the bell housing (touching it) as much as possible.  A couple of hits against a large crescent wrench that was pushing against the tip of the clutch fork and it finally popped in. This took WAY more force than I would have expected, but the fork is resting against the ball just as it should be.

 

Here are a few images of the installed clutch fork:

 

2888C213-EA59-4412-9929-1EAD70253D35.jpeg.6cbca0d4d5ee271ae28d7400f0dedeb1.jpeg22351D7E-F1DF-44C0-912F-B1F9BDCEE8BD.jpeg.7cc429be76840af337ce0b0c484704e5.jpeg6642D6E5-2B7B-4985-ABB4-87CA93D59AB2.jpeg.996ee1c3af85b8e63b23e33ae6904a88.jpeg

 

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All done for the day.  This weekend was productive from a Chrysler standpoint.  I did not complete as much today as I thought I would; the clutch fork took much longer than I expected. I installed the shifter and tested the shifting, everything appears to be working perfectly.  I still need to install the drive shaft, emergency brake cables, clutch linkages, floorboards, and interior.

 

I don’t expect any of the remaining tasks to be difficult, so I am guessing the Chrysler will be back on the road next weekend.  A few final images from today.

 

 

AEBB308B-1980-4F0B-BB75-FE4DF7EEB847.jpeg

4D58D5B9-1B3B-4807-8192-D6C0FAB8D695.jpeg

 

88CAF6A1-B83E-4C6D-AC2D-FF28D568A3AF.jpeg

Edited by Professor (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, Professor said:

I finally got it.  I ended up having to devise a way to get some leverage on the end of the clutch fork and then pry it over towards the passenger side of the car.  The throw out bearing carrier and bearing need to be as flush as you can get them against the pressure plate, and the clutch fork needs to be as far forward against the bell housing as possible.  For the record, I actually had to remove the leather boot so that the rivet holding it to the clutch fork could retract the thickness of the leather.  I would have removed the rivet next to allow the clutch fork to get as close to the bell housing (touching it) as much as possible.  A couple of hits against a large crescent wrench that was pushing against the tip of the clutch fork and it finally popped in. This took WAY more force than I would have expected, but the fork is resting against the ball just as it should be.

 

Here are a few images of the installed clutch fork:

 

6642D6E5-2B7B-4985-ABB4-87CA93D59AB2.jpeg.996ee1c3af85b8e63b23e33ae6904a88.jpeg

 

Joe,    You don't know how many years I've waited to get info. like this about the Chrysler airstream I have.

This picture shows one of the many springs I've been missing..... Thanks so much for sharing this form...

ERIC

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Eric,

 

I will take more detailed images once I get all of the clutch linkage connected.  I am glad you are finding parts of this thread useful.  Were it not for the help of people on this forum, I honestly do not think I would have been able to do this.  These cars make you up your game.  🙂

 

Joe

 

12 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

Joe,    You don't know how many years I've waited to get info. like this about the Chrysler airstream I have.

This picture shows one of the many springs I've been missing..... Thanks so much for sharing this form...

ERIC

 

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Today’s update:

 

Connected and adjusted the clutch linkage and the overdrive cable, installed and adjusted the emergency brake linkage, connected the driveshaft, filled the transmission with mineral oil.  Interestingly, the overdrive has what looks to be a fill plug on it, but the maintenance manual does not indicate that the overdrive should be filled separately.  I assume that fluid moves freely between the transmission and the overdrive unit, but I will verify this before I button things up.  The fill plug (if it is a fill plug) for the overdrive is not accessible once the floor panels are on, so I need to get this figured out tonight so I can install the floor panels and interior tomorrow.

 

If you know whether or not the overdrive unit shares fluid with the transmission, please let me know.  I will continue looking tonight.

 

After filling the transmission and making sure everything was buttoned up properly, I tested all the gears and the clutch with the engine off.  The transmission shifted smoothly.  After running the electric fuel pump for ten seconds or so, I pumped the gas pedal and fired up the engine.  It started right up and idled smoothly… not bad after sitting since November. 

 

The rear wheels are off the ground so they can turn freely, so I tested reverse, first, second, and third gear with the overdrive disengaged and again with the overdrive engaged, everything works fine and there are no odd sounds from the transmission, clutch, or throw out bearing.

 

Once I figure out the overdrive fluid question, I will install the flooring and interior tomorrow, and with any luck, should be able to go on a test drive.  I have some cleaning and touch up painting  to do on the flooring and flooring area before I install the interior, so I may not finish everything tomorrow, but I should finish by Sunday barring any unforeseen issues.

 

Joe

9035C2A7-1E71-4264-A6BA-3197F0E3FAFD.png

Edited by Professor
Added the Overdrive Fluid Specification from the Maintenance Manual (see edit history)
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Here is a description of the overdrive lubrication from the maintenance manual.  The overdrive shares fluid with the main transmission; some overdrives have a side fill plug and some do not.  In the case of a single fill plug, the overdrive can be filled from the top plug and the excess fluid will drain into the main transmission and out the transmission fill plug.  I will check this tomorrow, but I expect as soon as I add fluid to the overdrive fill plug, it will immediately run out the main transmission fill hole.  Never hurts to be safe.  🙂

 

Joe

 

966BAAFF-CE68-460D-B0BA-9166667CF972.png

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1 hour ago, Professor said:

Today’s update:

 

Connected and adjusted the clutch linkage and the overdrive cable, installed and adjusted the emergency brake linkage, connected the driveshaft, filled the transmission with mineral oil.  Interestingly, the overdrive has what looks to be a fill plug on it, but the maintenance manual does not indicate that the overdrive should be filled separately.  I assume that fluid moves freely between the transmission and the overdrive unit, but I will verify this before I button things up.  The fill plug (if it is a fill plug) for the overdrive is not accessible once the floor panels are on, so I need to get this figured out tonight so I can install the floor panels and interior tomorrow.

 

If you know whether or not the overdrive unit shares fluid with the transmission, please let me know.  I will continue looking tonight.

 

After filling the transmission and making sure everything was buttoned up properly, I tested all the gears and the clutch with the engine off.  The transmission shifted smoothly.  After running the electric fuel pump for ten seconds or so, I pumped the gas pedal and fired up the engine.  It started right up and idled smoothly… not bad after sitting since November. 

 

The rear wheels are off the ground so they can turn freely, so I tested reverse, first, second, and third gear with the overdrive disengaged and again with the overdrive engaged, everything works fine and there are no odd sounds from the transmission, clutch, or throw out bearing.

 

Once I figure out the overdrive fluid question, I will install the flooring and interior tomorrow, and with any luck, should be able to go on a test drive.  I have some cleaning and touch up painting  to do on the flooring and flooring area before I install the interior, so I may not finish everything tomorrow, but I should finish by Sunday barring any unforeseen issues.

 

Joe

9035C2A7-1E71-4264-A6BA-3197F0E3FAFD.png

It looks to me like back in 36 they expected you to go change the gear oil in your car as often as the temperature changed.  I can't imagine anyone doing this.  I'm sure today's gear oils are 100 times better than what was used them.

 

AS to the transmission fill levels, the way I read it, it looks as if the overdrive just fills slower with thick gear oil.

So, they added a second hole to some units , to ensure it gets filled. The units with two fill holes are connected internally, and the lower hole is the proper level to fill to.

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Eric,

 

GL1 fluid is appropriate for our transmissions since it does not contain sulfides or other high pressure additives that can wear / damage soft parts (bronze, brass, copper, etc.) in our transmissions.  As you note, modern gear oils, including GL4 and GL5 and much better performing oils… it’s just that we cannot use them without possibly damaging our transmissions.

 

I will stick with GL1 (mineral oil) and change it when it needs it.  I bought 5 gallons of GL1 from NAPA so I will have enough for the rest of my life, I think.  🙂 

 

Time for me to head out and start the propane heater in the garage so I can work once I have my coffee.  It is 25 F here this morning; a bit to cold to work comfortably in the garage.

 

Joe

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Cold! We are at 2F as I write this. Still it is so cold I am doing some work on making a stencil for the gauge and speedometer plates to repaint them. This will take a while and I am still in the drawing stage in my cad program!

 

Yellow metals require careful selection of the correct oils to prevent corrosion. In your case it is not likely the mileage but time will set when the lube is changed in the transmission.

Pierre

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4 hours ago, Professor said:

Eric,

 

GL1 fluid is appropriate for our transmissions since it does not contain sulfides or other high pressure additives that can wear / damage soft parts (bronze, brass, copper, etc.) in our transmissions.  As you note, modern gear oils, including GL4 and GL5 and much better performing oils… it’s just that we cannot use them without possibly damaging our transmissions.

 

I will stick with GL1 (mineral oil) and change it when it needs it.  I bought 5 gallons of GL1 from NAPA so I will have enough for the rest of my life, I think.  🙂 

 

Time for me to head out and start the propane heater in the garage so I can work once I have my coffee.  It is 25 F here this morning; a bit to cold to work comfortably in the garage.

 

Joe

Joe,   Please take some time to look into gear oils.  Just like motor oils, they have come a long way since 1936.  This is half the reasons why car engines perform, and last so long today.   I believe you will fine, the (bronze, brass, copper, etc.) gear oil damage thing, is mostly  internet BS, than anything else.   That said, there was a product on the market,,, maybe 20 years ago, that did have issues.  The benefits of modern gear oils, far out way any risks if you ask me. GL4 seems to convey none use of active sulphur compounds, which was the problem. To the best that I can tell no one advertises this in there gear oils today.  Here is an interesting bit of info. I found...

 

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gl4-and-gl5-fluid-is-this-a-myth.38625/

 

ERIC

 

 

Edited by VW4X4
gramer (see edit history)
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Yellow metal corrosion is not entirely internet BS. We see it on a couple of our rolling machines that have brass bearing blocks and the bearings are cooled by a full synthetic Ester oil package. Not polyester. Mind you we are running at 500F unlike in a car where 300F is considered hot. What we see is a dark green slime and corrosion in those areas. The amount of corrosion is not huge but it is always there when we do maintenance.

 

I personally doubt modern GL would still have that issue as the transmissions I have been into continue to have brass components.

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Alas… but not without ONE leftover part that I will be darned if I can figure out where it went.  Anyone have an idea what in the world this is?  It looks like a cable guide, and if so, I think it attaches to the inside of the frame near the emergency brake pivot mount (driver’s side).  It is covered with oil, and was in a ziplock bag by itself.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

AC36F77F-9CD5-4E8C-ADFE-D86D63695C24.jpeg

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FFD9D366-A5A9-4C5B-98AE-FDBF16020371.jpeg

2EB67EE4-949C-465D-BCF8-1034D9BBE3A2.jpeg

Edited by Professor (see edit history)
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The transmission shifts perfectly.  The only thing I notice that is different from the transmission I took out is that the overdrive shifts in more smoothly than it did on my original transmission.  When I lift the accelerator momentarily to shift into overdrive, the shift is barely perceptible on this transmission.  On my original transmission, there was a noticeable light “thunk” when I shifted into overdrive.  This may be associated with the overdrive cable not being adjusted properly on my original transmission.  I adjusted it significantly on this transmission.  I had to adjust the overdrive cable to be longer so that the overdrive would hit its internal stop, but I never completed this adjustment on my original transmission.  Who knows… I am spitballing it here.  🙂 

 

Joe

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2 hours ago, Professor said:

Alas… but not without ONE leftover part that I will be darned if I can figure out where it went.  Anyone have an idea what in the world this is?  It looks like a cable guide, and if so, I think it attaches to the inside of the frame near the emergency brake pivot mount (driver’s side).  It is covered with oil, and was in a ziplock bag by itself.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

AC36F77F-9CD5-4E8C-ADFE-D86D63695C24.jpeg

 

016E2A6C-0E4C-4697-A256-B906206056EB.jpeg

FFD9D366-A5A9-4C5B-98AE-FDBF16020371.jpeg

 

Good question.  I've never seen anything like this on ether of my cars.  With the Conv. taller frame, I'm guessing the E-brake was routed slightly differently and may have needed this...

 

ERIC

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Thanks Eric,

 

I will take a look and see what else I can find.  This said, I do routine maintenance so frequently that whether I use GL1 or GL5 transmission oil, I should be fine.  At some point, I am going to rebuild my original transmission, and I will post some images of what it looks like.  I ran GL4 synthetic (royal purple) in it.  If there is anything funky going on, it should be obvious. 

 

Joe

 

 

19 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

Joe,   Please take some time to look into gear oils.  Just like motor oils, they have come a long way since 1936.  This is half the reasons why car engines perform, and last so long today.   I believe you will fine, the (bronze, brass, copper, etc.) gear oil damage thing, is mostly  internet BS, than anything else.   That said, there was a product on the market,,, maybe 20 years ago, that did have issues.  The benefits of modern gear oils, far out way any risks if you ask me. GL4 seems to convey none use of active sulphur compounds, which was the problem. To the best that I can tell no one advertises this in there gear oils today.  Here is an interesting bit of info. I found...

 

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gl4-and-gl5-fluid-is-this-a-myth.38625/

 

ERIC

 

 

 

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With the help of a forum member, the “additional” part was located.  It belongs on the original transmission and mounts underneath the left rear shift rail retainer.  You can see it in the images I posted.  Apparently, the part is designed to capture oil that is thrown against the top cover and channel it back to the overdrive.  I am on my way outside right now to go install it before I forget where it belonged.  🙂

 

A huge thanks to Craig K for figuring this out.  My heart skipped a beat when I thought for a moment that I would need to remove the carpet, floor boards and top cover in order to install this part.  Thank goodness it was from the transmission I removed and not the one I installed.  🙂

 

Joe

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2 hours ago, Professor said:

With the help of a forum member, the “additional” part was located.  It belongs on the original transmission and mounts underneath the left rear shift rail retainer.  You can see it in the images I posted.  Apparently, the part is designed to capture oil that is thrown against the top cover and channel it back to the overdrive.  I am on my way outside right now to go install it before I forget where it belonged.  🙂

 

A huge thanks to Craig K for figuring this out.  My heart skipped a beat when I thought for a moment that I would need to remove the carpet, floor boards and top cover in order to install this part.  Thank goodness it was from the transmission I removed and not the one I installed.  🙂

 

Joe

      This thing goes on the inside of the transmission?

This guy Craig K obviously knows these transmissions well.  Being very limited production,that's amazing someone even knew about this.  This form is just proven itself again.

ERIC

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Until I get the proper emblem for the rack, I found this emblem and installed it.  I know it is not proper, but for now, it is better than looking at the holes where the emblem should be.

 

I filled the two “correct” emblem holes with JB Weld and once (and if) I find the correct emblem, I will knock out the JB weld and install the proper emblem.

 

Here is a couple of images:

 

 

C62BFCBF-F115-421B-A77B-1309CE8AF91F.jpeg

F4430808-BE10-47F9-98EF-A4C423D58DD3.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Professor said:

Until I get the proper emblem for the rack, I found this emblem and installed it.  I know it is not proper, but for now, it is better than looking at the holes where the emblem should be.

 

I filled the two “correct” emblem holes with JB Weld and once (and if) I find the correct emblem, I will knock out the JB weld and install the proper emblem.

 

Here is a couple of images:

 

 

C62BFCBF-F115-421B-A77B-1309CE8AF91F.jpeg

F4430808-BE10-47F9-98EF-A4C423D58DD3.jpeg

That looks great....   Where did you get that?  99% of the entire population in the world would not know its the wrong symbol.  If I was judging this car, I would only question the fact that this looks familiar, like something from a much newer car.  

   I've had to cut corners on my car like this.  Don't tell anyone. 

ERIC

Edited by VW4X4
grammer (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, VW4X4 said:

That looks great....   Where did you get that?  99% of the entire population in the world would not know its the wrong symbol.  If I was judging this car, I would only question the fact that this looks familiar, like something from a much newer car.  

   I've had to cut corners on my car like this.  Don't tell anyone. 

ERIC

Looks like the item that is on the rear splash apron on a 1929 Chrysler 75. You can see it in this photo....

1929 Chrysler coupe.jpg

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My front grille emblem looks the same except not round. So I would say not really an outlier in my opinion and 99.99% would not know that it is wrong. The really nice one is on a car nearby, while the other is mine, which is  the same but weather beaten. My spare grille in the shed, the emblem is missing. I am just happy to have found the grille!

Pierre

03BBED92-F467-41F0-9547-59B8200FEBCB.jpeg

6C1C8649-18CD-414A-9F09-617B4E9FEF11.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Piaras said:

My front grille emblem looks the same except not round. So I would say not really an outlier in my opinion and 99.99% would not know that it is wrong. The really nice one is on a car nearby, while the other is mine, which is  the same but weather beaten. My spare grille in the shed, the emblem is missing. I am just happy to have found the grille!

Pierre

03BBED92-F467-41F0-9547-59B8200FEBCB.jpeg

6C1C8649-18CD-414A-9F09-617B4E9FEF11.jpeg

Looks like this car has the wrong head lights.  I've noted that the chrome rim is small like a Dodge or Plymouth.  I was just working on my headlights and wishing for a miracle.  The color of this car is almost identical to mine...

 

ERIC 

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My car and the other one were built at the Windsor Plant in Ontario Canada. It has been documented that Chrysler and Ford built the Canadian market cars with a hodgepodge of trims from the parts bin. This is why Mercury cars in Canada are so different. Chrysler used a lot of Plymouth parts on the Chrysler models over the years.

 

https://www.wheels.ca/news/canada-only-cars-part-2

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Hi Eric,

 

I found this cloisonne emblem on eBay; it was the only older oval-shaped Chrysler emblem I could find.  It is the right height, but not the correct length... but as you and others have said, few people are going to notice that it is wrong.  I don't like using incorrect parts, but I like incorrect parts better than missing parts.  🙂 

 

Joe

 

14 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

That looks great....   Where did you get that?  99% of the entire population in the world would not know its the wrong symbol.  If I was judging this car, I would only question the fact that this looks familiar, like something from a much newer car.  

   I've had to cut corners on my car like this.  Don't tell anyone. 

ERIC

 

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2 hours ago, Piaras said:

My car and the other one were built at the Windsor Plant in Ontario Canada. It has been documented that Chrysler and Ford built the Canadian market cars with a hodgepodge of trims from the parts bin. This is why Mercury cars in Canada are so different. Chrysler used a lot of Plymouth parts on the Chrysler models over the years.

 

https://www.wheels.ca/news/canada-only-cars-part-2

I've seen 36 C7 airstreams with flat front windshields.  These were in foreign countries. So, I'm guessing Chrysler did this a lot.

 

ERIc

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Joe and Eric,

 

One thing I will say for you both (and many unsung members in the Chrysler clubs);  You are the type of conservators that this hobby needs.  Exacting research to get the right answers instead of "slap happy" restorers who get the cars on the road not really caring about what is right and exact.  When you guys get these cars finished, they will be the works of art that Walter Chrysler's designers put into these beautiful cars.  Chrysler was WAY more intricate in his designs that the others.  

 

My "lowly" Plymouth P2 was heads and tails above the Ford or GM for the same year.  When I first disassembled the drive line to replace the clutch, I was in awe of all the intricacies of the clutch and brake linkages.  We took the transmission apart to replace the synchro hub and inside, it looked NOTHING like a GM or Ford.  Missing the check ball almost spelled disaster as it would go into two gears, locking the transmission.  My rebuilder "lost or forgot" the ball and reassembled it without it.  

 

Again, research and a fellow member of the Plymouth owners club identified the issue.  I just happened to have a ball bearing that was the same size as what was needed. Voila, the problem was solved.

 

You fellows Airstreams will be around for so many more generations (if we can get gasoline in the future?) to come.  I am so impressed with your dillegence and quest for the proper answers and solutions to the miriad of questions that opening up a puzzle from the mid thirties presented to you.  

 

Gone are the days of going into a garage and asking the old timers questions about problems with your cars.  They are gone but with the internet and club members, there are answers out there.  

 

Bravo to you Joe and Eric for keeping these gorgeous machines alive and functioning.  We cannot wait to see the Airstream after it leaves the paint shop.  But for now, you have a wonderful driver.  

 

Randy

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16 minutes ago, Professor said:

All,

 

If you look at @Piaras's grill, you can see how nicely polished it is.  I believe his grill is the same as mine, but mine is bare aluminum with no shine.  Anyone know how to bring the finish back on these?

 

Joe

Aluminum?   

        Everyone I've seen was chrome plated pot metal.  There was someone years ago, that had made a few hundred aftermarket grills.  God knows why because the part only fits C7 and C8 one model year cars.    Maybe it was made out of Aluminum and you have one?  Can you post some close up pics?  

 

    Aluminum (if its in fact bare metal) can be polish just like most metals. Straighten dents, sand out scratches, until very fine sanding, then polish with "never dull"... Great product. 

 

ERIC

 

 

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When I bought and placed the spare grille into the shed, it seemed to be too heavy to be Aluminum. I thought it is made from Zinc, but I could be wrong. I will have to check it. As for the finish, it is chrome plated and then painted black all over and after that the front surfaces are cleaned of the paint. Aluminum will not stay polished as it is highly reactive to the environment. I do know the finish is not Nickel as it color is not the same as Chrome.

Pierre

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