Some pics from California

[nzcarnerd]

These were posted on the California History facebook page. I can only assume they are from the same dealership - there is no info with them.

 

The only car I think I recognise is the car on the left in the workshop which might be a circa 1922 Chevrolet FB.

[Guest]

That is a nice showroom. I wonder where it was?

Maybe if someone knew who White or Humphries were?

Edited January 11, 2020 by GregLaR (see edit history)

[Grandpa]

The cars pictured in the shop appear to have 1920 California license plates.

[Grandpa]

The pictures, below, likely identify the dealership and the unknown sedan in the showroom as a Standard Eight (made in Butler, Pennsylvania).  The trade magazine article is from April 1920.

 

[Guest]

Magnum PI has got nothing on you Grandpa! 😄

[mike6024]

[mike6024]

[mike6024]

Nan Ness Auto Row (pictures)

 

https://ohp.parks.ca.gov/pages/1054/files/van ness auto row.pdf

 

[Grandpa]

The pictured is the same building that housed the dealership circa 1920.  Note that in the second vintage picture of the showroom, the outside corner of the building has an angled design.

 

[Grandpa]

Pictured is the home of Herbert Fowler Humphries (B: August 1892) located in Westwood Park, 683 Miramar Ave., San Francisco, CA.  Note that the house is little changed from the vintage Baldwin & Howell ad (above) posted by Mike6024.  The 1917 Westwood Park development was a segregated neighborhood for white families only.  This 2,000 sq. ft. house is estimated to be worth about $1,700,000 (USD) today.

 

[58L-Y8]

Did Standard manufacture their own V-type eight cylinder engine or outsource it from a propriety engine maker?

[nzcarnerd]

12 hours ago, mike6024 said:

 

The picture of the car here shows us that the middle of three in the workshop is a Standard - note the distinctive head lamp set up.

[Grandpa]

Pictured is a vintage picture of a Standard 8 sedan; could be the same car shown in the Baldwin & Howell ad.

 

[mike6024]

So they had smaller lights below the main headlights.

 

[Grandpa]

Pictured is a Standard 8 touring car; could be the same car in the Camp Curry picture (above).  Perhaps Herbert F. Humphries is driving with his wife and grandma in the back seat.  Note that in the image of the sedan in a park (prior post, above) that the driver is about the right age for Herbert Humphries wife and there is an older woman in the back seat.

 

[nzcarnerd]

Found my book of US car serial numbers. For 1920 the Standard was the Model I and numbers went from I1600 to I3604.

 

They seem to have had a brief heyday in the late teens/ early '20s but went out of business about 1923 - as I think several other makes did. Mitchell is one that comes to mind. Must have been something about the post WW1 financial climate that made business difficult.

[Grandpa]

Another picture of a Standard 8 touring car.

 

[Grandpa]

The other automobile sold by White-Humphries Company was the Commonwealth.  There is a Commonwealth touring car shown in the dealer's shop area.

 

[nzcarnerd]

It is good that progress is being made on this. Now we just need to identify the other car in the workshop.

 

Or is it another Commonwealth?

[Guest]

The park lamps below the headlamps is rather prophetic for a car this early.

[Grandpa]

I believe that the car shown on the right side of the dealership shop photo in a new Commonwealth.  All three cars in the shop have the same license plate number.  In 1920, the California dealer plates have a single letter on the left side followed by a dash and then numbers.  Non-dealer plates use only numbers.  An automobile dealer would be issued license plates with the same number; the dealer would request the number of plates needed.  In later years, dealer license plates would only be used on the rear of the car. 

[Guest]

mike,

             Your link to the Van Ness Auto Row shows some magnificent dealerships! Thanks for the share.

 

[nzcarnerd]

1 hour ago, GregLaR said:

The park lamps below the headlamps is rather prophetic for a car this early.

 

 

Of course the most well-known exponent of the 'park lamps under the head lamps' was Packard with their Twin Six, beginning in 1915.

 

[nzcarnerd]

Just now, nzcarnerd said:

 

 

Of course the most well-known exponent of the 'park lamps under the head lamps' was Packard with their Twin Six, beginning in 1915.

 

 

 Checking further I see the last of the big sixes also had them - pic from a 1916 movie. 

 

[Grandpa]

The 1918 - 1919 Packard was the last year for the parking lights located under the headlights.

 

[Guest]

What was the purpose of the cowl lamps if the car already had park lamps beneath the headlamps?

[Grandpa]

I guess that Packard was using-up excess stock of the older design of the parking lights under the headlights for the 1918 - 1919 models.  The styling department of Packard must have wanted the cowl lights, despite the unnecessary duplication of the parking lights mounted as part of the headlights.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Grandpa said:

I guess that Packard was using-up excess stock of the older design of the parking lights under the headlights for the 1918 - 1919 models.  The styling department of Packard must have wanted the cowl lights, despite the unnecessary duplication of the parking lights mounted as part of the headlights.

Thanks Grandpa. This is interesting. So I wonder if the two sets of parking lights worked independent of each other (which would require an additional switch I suppose) or if they both illuminated together?

[Standard Eight]

On 1/11/2020 at 4:43 PM, GregLaR said:

That is a nice showroom. I wonder where it was?

Maybe if someone knew who White or Humphries were?

White and Humphries were the largest Standard Eight distributors in California.  They even attempted (and built) to build a custom speedster based on the Standard Eight. - Bob

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by vwlfan (see edit history)

[Standard Eight]

On 1/12/2020 at 2:18 PM, 58L-Y8 said:

Did Standard manufacture their own V-type eight cylinder engine or outsource it from a propriety engine maker?

Standard used the Hershell Spillman V8 engine.  As part of Standard's goal to produce all parts for their cars in-house ,they acquired both the design and manufacturing rights from HS for the HS V8 and built these motors in the former Pittsburgh Model Engine plant, in Pittsburgh. Other than Peerless, which had acquired their own rights to use the HS V8 engine design, other manufactures which used the HS V8 in their cars sourced their engines from the Standard engine factory in Pittsburgh.  - Bob

Edited January 22, 2020 by vwlfan (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Bob

Thank you for answering my question.   I seemed to recall the Standard V8 was credited to Hershell-Spillman but did not know that Standard acquired the manufacturing rights to do so themselves.  Was the Peerless V8 essentially the same or modified in some ways?

[Standard Eight]

53 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Bob

Thank you for answering my question.   I seemed to recall the Standard V8 was credited to Hershell-Spillman but did not know that Standard acquired the manufacturing rights to do so themselves.  Was the Peerless V8 essentially the same or modified in some ways?

From my research on the HS V8 and the Standard Eight automobile it appears that , while built by different companies (Peerless and Standard Steel Car), the 1915/1916 HS V8s built by Peerless and Standard were very close to being almost identical.  But beginning with the 1917 production year the two engine designs began to deviate from each other as both companies implemented their own improvements to the engine design. - Bob

[Standard Eight]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:56 PM, nzcarnerd said:

 

 Checking further I see the last of the big sixes also had them - pic from a 1916 movie. 

 

The Standard Eight did not use the dual front headlight design until the 1917 production year. The first 10 or so developmental cars build in 1915-1916 had single style front headlights

[58L-Y8]

24 minutes ago, vwlfan said:

From my research on the HS V8 and the Standard Eight automobile it appears that , while built by different companies (Peerless and Standard Steel Car), the 1915/1916 HS V8s built by Peerless and Standard were very close to being almost identical.  But beginning with the 1917 production year the two engine designs began to deviate from each other as both companies implemented their own improvements to the engine design. - Bob

Thank you for enlarging on the subject.   It would make sense that the separate companies would begin to make improvements to the design as they saw fit.  Did Hershell-Spillman continue to build and supply the V8 in its original form to other car makers in parallel with Peerless and Standard making their versions?

[Standard Eight]

6 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Thank you for enlarging on the subject.   It would make sense that the separate companies would begin to make improvements to the design as they saw fit.  Did Hershell-Spillman continue to build and supply the V8 in its original form to other car makers in parallel with Peerless and Standard making their versions?

Actually it appears that other than design and prototype engine versions HS did not manufacture any of the production V8 engines at their facilities  ( HS did produce all of their 4 and 6 cylinder engines). Peerless built HS V8 variants for themselves and Standard Steel manufactured and supplied their HS V8 variant for themselves and all other auto makers who might have used the HS V8. - Bob

[58L-Y8]

Thanks for the enlightenment, sounds as if H-S essentially developed the V8 then outsourced its manufacture to others.  Wonder if they had a royalty contract with Standard to receive some dollar amount for every engine sold to others who used it?

[Standard Eight]

11 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Thanks for the enlightenment, sounds as if H-S essentially developed the V8 then outsourced its manufacture to others.  Wonder if they had a royalty contract with Standard to receive some dollar amount for every engine sold to others who used it?

I don’t believe there was any royalty arrangement to HS. All the rights to the HS V8 were fully vested to Standard Steel as part of the purchase.  Thus Standard Steel was the only producer of the HS V8 for all other brand uses ( Peerless excludes) with all monies for sales going to Standard Steel Car Co - Bob

[58L-Y8]

Did H-S sell the rights to a very fine designed V8 in your experience?

What other carmakers sourced the V8 from Standard? 

[Standard Eight]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

Did H-S sell the rights to a very fine designed V8 in your experience?

What other carmakers sourced the V8 from Standard? 

Some other makes I have encountered which used the Standard Steel Car produced HS V8 include  (and I am sure there are others):

 

Abbott-Detroit
Anderson
Apperson
Common Sense Tractor
Daniels (I have seen Daniels listed as using their own V8 design also)
Douglas
Drummond
Murray
Rock Falls
Ross

 

Bob

Edited January 22, 2020 by vwlfan (see edit history)