Riviera63 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I recently had my bucket seats out of my car to do some cosmetic cleanup and painting. I was paging through the body manual to look something up and noticed a diagram and explanation of how to remove the seat back from the bottom. I already knew how to separate the 2 halves. I was surprised to see by viewing the diagram that on each side where the 2 halves hinge together they are each supposed to have a washer and a retainer. When I took my seats apart the only piece I had on my seats was the chrome cap retainer on the outboard side. I was missing the 4 washers and the inboard retainers. Can anyone describe to me or supply a picture of what type of washers should be there and what the retainer looks like on the inboard side? Thanks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 Here is the page from the body manual showing what I was describing. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 All I can tell you is that it is a thin piece of plastic about 1 1/4" in diameter. It's very flexible also. Just helps keep the metal from rubbing the upholstery. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 hours ago, telriv said: All I can tell you is that it is a thin piece of plastic about 1 1/4" in diameter. It's very flexible also. Just helps keep the metal from rubbing the upholstery. Tom T. Thanks Tom. Would they be similar to the washers that go behind interior door handles and window cranks? Any idea what the inboard hinge pin retainer looks like? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Bill, The plastic behind the door & widow cranks is MUCH too stiff & WON'T provide the protection. Those washers are VERY flexible. I will have to dig some out & measure them. Same with the hinge pin retainer. Will get back probably tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 10 hours ago, telriv said: Bill, The plastic behind the door & widow cranks is MUCH too stiff & WON'T provide the protection. Those washers are VERY flexible. I will have to dig some out & measure them. Same with the hinge pin retainer. Will get back probably tomorrow. Tom, I would appreciate that. Do you by chance have any extras that you would be willing to sell? I would need 4 washers and the 2 inboard hinge pin retainers. Thanks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Bill, In reality you could actually make the washers out of some gasket making material. I measured the thickness at about .060" which is about 1/16th. There is NO force or tension against them it's ONLY for protecting the seat material. I just went & measured mine & they are approx. 1 1/2" in diameter. I will take a pic of the retainers, there are 3 diff. types I know of, & they can be bought at a hardware store. I will go to my sisters later to have her show me how to attach a pic. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, telriv said: Bill, In reality you could actually make the washers out of some gasket making material. I measured the thickness at about .060" which is about 1/16th. There is NO force or tension against them it's ONLY for protecting the seat material. I just went & measured mine & they are approx. 1 1/2" in diameter. I will take a pic of the retainers, there are 3 diff. types I know of, & they can be bought at a hardware store. I will go to my sisters later to have her show me how to attach a pic. Tom T. Tom, Could you also include one of the washers in the picture also please? Thanks. I appreciate the help. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 they are 1 1/2" round with a hole in the middle to fit over the pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 27 minutes ago, telriv said: they are 1 1/2" round with a hole in the middle to fit over the pin. Tom, I had that part figured out. I was just looking for other things like color, type of material, etc. Thanks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 (edited) Go to the website for Mr. G's Enterprises and scroll down through the PDF pages. You'll find listings that show all of which Tom has pictured above. Edited June 6, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Bill, The washer was a pretty thin piece of white very flexible plastic. I've seen ALL three retainers pictured. The MOST common being the one closet to the chrome knob with the next being the end one. Again, ALL 3 available at the hardware store. I know Restoration Specialties has black washers, but they are not as flexible as the originals. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 If you can't find anything suitable at your local hardware store - Ace, Nuts and Bolts, etc. - not Lowe's or Home Depot, look at page 94 on the Mr. G's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 45 minutes ago, telriv said: Thanks for the pictures Tom. Thanks for the retainer source Ed. I have the chrome caps which were on the outboard side. I did some research and found that the type that is directly above the chrome cap was used on the Camaro and Firebird. The C shaped retainer that is 2 above the chrome cap was used on full-sized Chevys. I know this is being super picky but, does anyone know which type was used for the inboard side on the Rivs? I did find the hinge washers being supplied by some of the various repro parts vendors. I bought a set on e-bay. Picture attached. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Bill, I don't know how you can say that with authority. When these cars were made WHATEVER was in the box was used. MANY of these parts are produced by various manufacturers & MANY times are different. Do you think the line is going to stop because the WRONG fastener was in the bin??? Of course not likely. Just like front fender bolts can have different head markings from one side to the other. I don't claim to be an upholstery expert, but I've taken apart enough of them in the early days that this is what I've found. If your SO concerned about correctness why are you purchasing black plastic washers??? ALL the ones I have taken apart in the past have been a WHITE plastic. There seems to be NO deviation on them. Depending on the color of the seats black will stick out like a sore thumb. Whereas white will blend in with most any color. Just more of my thoughts. On another note, for the most part MOST will NEVER see or notice them unless they are pointed out. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, telriv said: Bill, I don't know how you can say that with authority. When these cars were made WHATEVER was in the box was used. MANY of these parts are produced by various manufacturers & MANY times are different. Do you think the line is going to stop because the WRONG fastener was in the bin??? Of course not likely. Just like front fender bolts can have different head markings from one side to the other. I don't claim to be an upholstery expert, but I've taken apart enough of them in the early days that this is what I've found. If your SO concerned about correctness why are you purchasing black plastic washers??? ALL the ones I have taken apart in the past have been a WHITE plastic. There seems to be NO deviation on them. Depending on the color of the seats black will stick out like a sore thumb. Whereas white will blend in with most any color. Just more of my thoughts. On another note, for the most part MOST will NEVER see or notice them unless they are pointed out. Tom T. Tom, I was not saying definitive or with authority. I was just reporting what I found being sold there and that is why I asked if a certain one was used on the Rivs. You just answered that question and now I know that any of the ones pictured will work. I will probably opt for the C shaped retainer as it seems it will be the easiest to remove. As far as the washers go I looked at many different sources and the ones I had pictured above seemed to be the style shown and sold for many GM makes and other Manufacturers as well. There I was using the reasoning that if they used these on other GM makes they most likely were used on the Buicks as well. That is why I asked for a picture and/or description so that I knew what they looked like. Now I know they are white plastic. White is perfect for me as my seats are white. The search goes on. I know that most people will never see or notice many of the things we do to our cars.That's OK, as I know what I have done and if I am going to do something I want to do it as closely to what was done originally as possible. That's just me. I appreciate all of your input and help in getting this sorted out. I learned some new things that were helpful and I'm sure this will help others as well. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Bill, I'm glad I was of help to yourself & possibly others as well. I reply to these posts because I have been there & done that. It also is a great feeling to be able to help/point others in the right direction. For me it's kinda FUN!!! SOMETIMES in the process I can make a few $$$ along the way to help supplement a fixed income of SS which is barely enough to cover property taxes on the house. I have found a knish, as small as an audience as it may be, to help keep the "Nail" alive & strong. These 1st. gen Rivs are just TOO COOL. One of the reasons I bought mine new in '64. I don't mean to come off as condescending & apologize if I came off as such. HAVING FUN is the main objective. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 54 minutes ago, telriv said: Bill, I'm glad I was of help to yourself & possibly others as well. I reply to these posts because I have been there & done that. It also is a great feeling to be able to help/point others in the right direction. For me it's kinda FUN!!! SOMETIMES in the process I can make a few $$$ along the way to help supplement a fixed income of SS which is barely enough to cover property taxes on the house. I have found a knish, as small as an audience as it may be, to help keep the "Nail" alive & strong. These 1st. gen Rivs are just TOO COOL. One of the reasons I bought mine new in '64. I don't mean to come off as condescending & apologize if I came off as such. HAVING FUN is the main objective. Tom T. Tom, I am relatively new to the Buick Riviera after spending many years with Pontiacs. I have learned a lot since I first got my Riv and continue to learn everyday, much of it from this forum. People like you that have lived with these cars for all of these years are an invaluable resource that everyone should take advantage of. It is a great thing that you are so willing to share what you know. Not all people are like that. I have great respect for the knowledge and the wisdom that many of the people on this forum and in the various clubs have attained. When I had my Pontiacs I was fortunate to find someone that had a great body of knowledge that he was willing to share with me. Speaking of supplemental income. Do you have 4 of these washers that you would be willing to sell? If you have 4 of the C shaped retainer rings I would buy these as well. The guy that owns the Ace Hardware here has enough money. I have a go to guy for my parts and so far he has come up empty. I am also looking for a nice driver's side outboard curved chrome piece. Mine is pretty good but, has some scratches in the brushed area and a ding at the bottom. Let me know. Thanks. Bill P.S. Yes! Fun is the name of the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Bill, Pontiac is my second favorite. I had a '68 FireBird that was at one time a daily driver. It was black (repainted-''68 you couldn't get black) fold down rear seat, TH400, 4.10's out back. It had a Ram Air V block, rods & pistons, Ram Air IV cam & intake, crossover blocked, stock 1.65 rockers, etc. I used the stock '68 heads to run in stock class. It was NOT lightened in any way. Best with slicks was a 10.81ET@125MPH. Not bad for the early 70's. Surprised MANY with that car. Even on the street. NO ONE believed I was able to it to 7K RPM's with the hydraulic lifters. I'll look to see if I may have some of those White plastic washers, but I don't think so. I can get the 2 C-Clips though. I'll get back to you within a couple days. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Bill, i meant to say 4 C-Clips. And sorry, NO, I don't have that piece your looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fasteners-fastener-accessories/washers-spacers/fender-washers/grip-fast-reg-1-4-x-1-1-2-nylon-washer-20-count/p-1444451978321-c-8943.htm?tid=477792168857150085&ipos=5 Drill out the hole to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 There you go Bill. KongaMann comes through. ALL you have to do is enlarge the I.D. But, I will still look. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 56 minutes ago, KongaMan said: https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fasteners-fastener-accessories/washers-spacers/fender-washers/grip-fast-reg-1-4-x-1-1-2-nylon-washer-20-count/p-1444451978321-c-8943.htm?tid=477792168857150085&ipos=5 Drill out the hole to fit. KongaMan, Thanks for that heads up. Menards is one of my favorite places to shop. I will get there this afternoon. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 BTW, if you're going to drill out the hole, I'd suggest using a brad point bit rather than conventional bit. The flat face of the brad point will tend to cut the thin nylon cleanly, while a conventional bit with a pointed tip would be prone to tearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, telriv said: Bill, i meant to say 4 C-Clips. And sorry, NO, I don't have that piece your looking for. Tom, I have a question. Were there retainers on the outboard side PLUS the chrome cap or did the chrome cap act as the retainer? That Firebird sounds like it was a lot of fun. My uncle had a 1969 Firebird convertible with a 400 4-speed that he bought when he got back from Vietnam. That was a nice car. I fell in love with Pontiacs when I was in high school (which was a long time ago) and GTO's long before they were fashionable. My dream car was 1 65 GTO convertible. I had a 69 GTO when I was in college. One of the most reliable cars I ever owned. The last ones being a 63 Grand Prix, a 1963 Tempest Custom convertible with the 4 cylinder and lastly a 1963 Tempest Lemans convertible with the 326 HO. I sold that car with the intentions of finally getting my 65 GTO. We had a couple of bummer trips looking at GTOs and I just happened to see the Arctic White Riv we ended up buying on e-bay. I fell in love with it and just couldn't get it out of my mind. The clincher was that my wife's grandma had an Arctic White 63 Riviera that her dad originally had. Grandma would take her out driving in the Riv when she had her temporary license. She was excited about getting the Riv. I have found that it is always good to have the woman of the house invested in some way in the old car habit. We bought the Riv and it has been a fun and interesting ride. It took a couple of years to get rid of all my Pontiac memorabilia and signs and am now fully stocked with Buick items in my workshop. I have attached a picture of Grandma Radcliffe next to her 63 Riv. I display this picture when we go to car shows. We paid homage to Grandma Radcliffe and had 1963 Wisconsin license plates made up with the same month and numbers as hers. In the background you can see my brother-in-laws 57 Olds (that dad gave him) and my father-in-laws 62 Lincoln. He was not a car guy but, he always had cool cars. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, KongaMan said: BTW, if you're going to drill out the hole, I'd suggest using a brad point bit rather than conventional bit. The flat face of the brad point will tend to cut the thin nylon cleanly, while a conventional bit with a pointed tip would be prone to tearing it. Thanks for that tip. I will do that. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 The chrome cay acted as the retainer Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 40 minutes ago, telriv said: The chrome cay acted as the retainer Bill. Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted June 8, 2018 Author Share Posted June 8, 2018 Seat project done. Turned out great. Thanks to KongaMan and Tom for your help. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Glad you've found everything that was needed Bill. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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