FLUID DRIVE HARNESS DIAGRAM NEEDED

[Steelbreeze]

We're in the final stages of installing the aftermarket wiring harness but other than having the complete wiring diagram for the car, we need a more isolated diagram for the fluid drive wiring and components. I saw Long Island wiring sells a harness for this area but not sure if we need to purchase that since we are not using an original 6 volt harness for the rest of the car. Any helpful hints will be appreciated. Please post the diagram if anyone has this info. We are not sure other than the trans solenoids if all of the components are on the car. ie: ignition interrupt switch, etc. Thanx for the help. Hope to be driving her soon.

[Spinneyhill]

Can you tell us the make and year of vehicle.

 

Fluid drive refers to the clutch. You mean the gearbox? I assume you mean either the overdrive or later four speed?

Edited April 7, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Here is one for a 51 Chrysler, hope it helps. They were pretty standard in the postwar period. Just the location of some components changed, not the function or wiring schematic.

 

To enlarge the diagram, put the cursor on it, right click, left click Open In New Tab. Then go to the new tab and left click to enlarge.

 

Best idea might be to print it off.

 

Coil and distributor are to the lower left in the diagram. Find the coil and highlight the wires from coil to carb, and then to the trans controls.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

The wiring is fairly simple once you understand it. There are 2 wires that come off the coil (both sides) to a small box with 4 posts, that contains a resistor and a circuit breaker. Then 2 wires from there, to 2 switches on the carburetor. One actuated at full throttle, the other at closed throttle. Then a couple of wires to the transmission controls. Go by the diagram and do one wire at a time and you shouldn't have any trouble.

 

This is too obvious, but all this has to be 6 volts. I don't know if the controls will stand 12 volts and I wouldn't chance it, they are pretty hard to replace.

[Rusty_OToole]

I understand you are converting to 12V. You must understand, you will need to have a mixed 6v/12v system unless you replace every electrical component with 12v equivalents. The light bulbs are fairly easy except maybe the instrument lights, but trans controls, coil, wiper motor, horns, heater blower, radio etc not so easy.

[Steelbreeze]

9 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Can you tell us the make and year of vehicle.

 

Fluid drive refers to the clutch. You mean the gearbox? I assume you mean either the overdrive or later four speed?

Sorry, 47 Chrysler Windsor.

[c49er]

You will need the 1946-48 Chrysler/ DeSoto M-5 "Hydraulically Operated" transmission diagram. It has a 5 terminal relay box on the drivers side fender panel.

1949-53 cars use M-6 transmission with a different wiring circuit using  the resister/circuit breaker box on the air cleaner bracket.

[Rusty_OToole]

Do a search for Imperial Fluid Drive. The Imperial club reproduces a lot of original Chrysler service literature on their site.

[Spinneyhill]

Here are a couple of diagrams from MoToR Manual 1947. The 1950 edition has the same diagrams with captions saying 1946-48 C & DeS.

 

[Steelbreeze]

Thanx, Our car is the 47 Chrysler fluid drive. We need to know what is involved other than supplying power to solinoids. These actually are the diagrams we are using. I think we have it figured out but have to hook a micro switch to the accelerator. Then we should bet in business

Edited April 15, 2017 by Steelbreeze (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

You have to study the diagrams to figure out how the trans works. First off it is a conventional gearshift, like a regular 3 speed. But the gears are shifted by a hydraulic piston. The hydraulic pressure comes from a pump at the back of the trans, and is controlled by a solenoid valve. The valve is controlled by a system of switches. There is a governor that prevents shifting until the trans reaches a certain speed. There are 2 valves on the carburetor, one allows shifting when the throttle is closed (normal shift) the other when the throttle is wide open (kickdown shift). There is a 1-2 hydraulic shift. Then there is a manual shift for low range- high range - reverse. So you have a choice of Low range (1-2 speed) High range (1-2 speed) and Reverse (1 speed). It may take a while but you will figure it out. I did, and I don't even have an engineering degree ha ha.

[Spinneyhill]

3 hours ago, Steelbreeze said:

Thanx, Our car is the 47 Chrysler fluid drive. We need to know what is involved other than supplying power to solinoids. These actually are the diagrams we are using. I think we have it figured out but have to hook a micro switch to the accelerator. Then we should bet in business

 

Do you have the text that goes with the diagrams? I can scan it if you like.

[Guest rb1949]

This is a simple one for the M6.

 

[Guest Lazaro]

Hi. I have a 48` Desoto custom semi-automatic with fluid drive in reparation, it hasn't run in a couple decades, now it started and it drives, the electrical part of the transmission is there, but still disconnected, solenoids work, relay, we haven't tested it yet. The original carb didn't work, has missing parts, so it has a Valiant's one instead, without the wired switch thing.  So, there is the question: Is there a way to use this different carb, and still have the transmission running, or I'd have to replace the whole transmission?.  Thanks.

[c49er]

Why not just get the correct "EV-1 or EV-2"  Carter Ball and Ball carburetor?

It will have the correct electrical kick down and anti stall components for your M-5 hydraulically operated Simplimatic  transmission.

[Rusty_OToole]

It might be possible to install 2 micro switches on the throttle linkage somewhere. One actuated at full throttle, the other when the throttle is closes. But it would be easier to buy the right carburetor.

[Steelbreeze]

Yes I did get the correct carb. The micro switch was our first option until the carburetor became available. Now I'm just looking for the correct interrupter switch. The one that came on mine from them rebuilding the trans doesn't seem to be correct. Mine has 2 prongs and should only have 1

[Steelbreeze]

On 8/30/2017 at 8:37 PM, Lazaro said:

Hi. I have a 48` Desoto custom semi-automatic with fluid drive in reparation, it hasn't run in a couple decades, now it started and it drives, the electrical part of the transmission is there, but still disconnected, solenoids work, relay, we haven't tested it yet. The original carb didn't work, has missing parts, so it has a Valiant's one instead, without the wired switch thing.  So, there is the question: Is there a way to use this different carb, and still have the transmission running, or I'd have to replace the whole transmission?.  Thanks.

Would be easier and cheaper to get the correct carb than to change transmissions. Besides having the correct functionality. As you see I was in the same predicament

Edited September 1, 2017 by Steelbreeze
Wrong word (see edit history)

[c49er]

4 hours ago, Steelbreeze said:

Yes I did get the correct carb. The micro switch was our first option until the carburetor became available. Now I'm just looking for the correct interrupter switch. The one that came on mine from them rebuilding the trans doesn't seem to be correct. Mine has 2 prongs and should only have 1

Some late 48 cars used the 2 terminal Anti-stall solenoid on top of the carter carbs. It's not a interrupter  switch.

Just use a ground wire on one of the terminals as shown. 

The Kick down or interupter switch is down on the side of the carb and uses a spade wire terminal as shown...

[Steelbreeze]

I am in need of the transmission interrupter switch. For some reason the one that is currently installed has 2 prongs on the top instead of only one. The transmission and engine were fully rebuilt before I acquired the car and this is what was on it. And I can't afford the close to two hundred bucks some people want for theirs. I'll just have to wait for a break or for someone wanting to trade out for another part I may have. 

[steven & li]

my husband has a 1949 s13 custom coupe with tippy toe fluid transmission in original condition. its been in shop being rewired (and other safety/front suspension things) for almost year. the person who took the wiring out of the car to replace it left the shop. The head mechanic named Tim told us he is a little stumped by wiring near the big bohemith radio area (even tho it doesn't work and will never). Now we gave Tim the original Desoto manual that has the wiring diagrams but he said its not the best. He would like to talk to someone for 15 minutes just to understand a few things in that wiring area of the car. can someone help us with that? my email is hottrotsfarm@yahoo.com (my cell 256 698 8867) and my name is Li if you are interested lending an ear for that little time. i just need your name and phone and i'll forward it to tim (head mechanic) for him to call you. Also from reading the forums on tippy toe transmission and all, it seems there mite be a few tricks to ensure that all is wired correct and a little different than other cars. if you could impart your knowledge to him we would be deeply grateful. I want my hubby happy back in his anniversary rpesent i bought him...have blessed day.

[Rusty_OToole]

There has been a lot of discussion on the care and servicing of these transmissions, and how best to operate them. There were a couple of long threads from 2008 that covered the subject in depth. If you do a search for Fluid Drive in the Chrysler forum you will find much food for thought, and the answers to most of your questions.

 

If you have any questions I would be glad to help, but frankly I am getting tired of typing out the same information for the 1000th time for people who can't be bothered to search the archives. Go there first,  it will answer your questions, if something is not clear come back and ask here.

[Itchy Acres Garage]

Hi , I have a weird one ;

  I opened the top of my 51 windsor fluid drive ‘s Carter ball and ball  ,to clean it out with carb cleaner because the float was sticking .lots of good historical glop 70,yr old ,out of float chamber .

cleaned the antistall switch plunger with a 3m pad  ,put it back ,put in the little spring , cleaned up the float mechanism ,reassembled and ......no spark,  no spark?

i checked the distributor,coil,coil leads and wires , all looked ok 

did my amateur reassembly of the carb booger up the antistall and short me out? Did I put the little ball in the wrong place ?Mystery 

Thought to  try to install my unadulterated desoto Carter and see if that fixes it but I’ll loose the choke :desoto has a sisson and Chrysler has a hot air bimetallic spring one  

[Rusty_OToole]

I don't know what you did to the carburetor. One of us should have a look at it. You are closer than we are. Try testing the switch with a test light or multi meter and find out if it is working right.  You could also try disconnecting the trans control wires from the coil and see if the car starts and runs. Put on your thinking cap and diagnose the problem step by step. Don't go tearing everything apart and throwing random parts around until you know exactly what is wrong. Right now you probably only have one problem, go ripping everything apart and you won't know what the hell is wrong. Good thinking that it probably has something to do with the carb if that is the last thing you touched.

[Spinneyhill]

If you want people who know about (this) carb to read your question, you should start your own topic with a suitable title. It has nothing to do with a wiring harness for a transmission.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)