ulrace Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 My 1916 touring car is on the road and drives well up to 35-40 mph. After that it wanders some. When i repacked front wheel bearings i noticed enough play after adjustment that the wheels will move an inch or so even when adjusted as closely as possible. Anyone know of a source for wheel bearings or a solution to this problem? thanks; any tips or info appreciated. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Are you sure it is wheel bearings? Sounds more like kingpins and tie rod ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I agree with Layden B - I have a 1919 Max 25 tourer in the United Kingdom and had wheel bearings replaced because I could see the cup which they sit in was damaged on both sides (see attached pic) and this had in turn damaged the bearings so in your case I believe you should be able to see if the bearing is worn or damaged and if it is then you will have to replace - I had to have new non standard bearings to fit into a modified specially made cup as I could not get my hands on exact bearings and paid about £600 for the two front ones - having said this I don't think a worn bearing would create as much wheel movement as you describe so suspect it may well be king pin - pump as much heavy grease into the king pin grease nipple as you can and see if that makes any difference- best wishes - Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrace Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 Quote Thanks for the tips; hadn't tried grease in king pins as there is only a port to get oil in. I will try that and also recheck tie rod ends. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pre1939chrysler Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I think everyone is correct in narrowing down the problem. I know I'll get slack for this but I think the problem is behind the steering wheel . Look up speed limits in 1916 for cars. And how many good roads were there ? I can go 45 to 55 mph in my 29,but why? I'd rather enjoy the scenery then make time. I had a wobble in my front end and changed king pins and tires. A little drift could be a steering box,steering wheel or loose linkage. When I get that old I hope I can drift a little too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 On 8/14/2016 at 8:17 AM, icerolyuk said: I agree with Layden B - I have a 1919 Max 25 tourer in the United Kingdom and had wheel bearings replaced because I could see the cup which they sit in was damaged on both sides (see attached pic) and this had in turn damaged the bearings so in your case I believe you should be able to see if the bearing is worn or damaged and if it is then you will have to replace - I had to have new non standard bearings to fit into a modified specially made cup as I could not get my hands on exact bearings and paid about £600 for the two front ones - having said this I don't think a worn bearing would create as much wheel movement as you describe so suspect it may well be king pin - pump as much heavy grease into the king pin grease nipple as you can and see if that makes any difference- best wishes - Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Peter, I guess my post got lost????????? What I tried to ask was did you stay with ball bearings or did you convert to Timken style roller bearings? If the latter could you share the part numbers and what it took to do the conversion, Please? Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 On 16 August 2016 at 5:01 PM, hddennis said: Peter, I guess my post got lost????????? What I tried to ask was did you stay with ball bearings or did you convert to Timken style roller bearings? If the latter could you share the part numbers and what it took to do the conversion, Please? Howard Dennis On 16 August 2016 at 5:01 PM, hddennis said: Peter, I guess my post got lost????????? What I tried to ask was did you stay with ball bearings or did you convert to Timken style roller bearings? If the latter could you share the part numbers and what it took to do the conversion, Please? Howard Dennis Hi Howard yes converted to roller bearings - I'll have a chat with the mechanic as we actually sent the wheels away to an engineering company to manufacture all the bits needed to make them fit and he has all the info I'll get back to you but may take some time regards peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Thanks Peter, no hurry I'd just like the information for the future as I'm running old original ball bearings and know that failure IS highly likely somewhere down the road. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Ok Howard I think my mechanic is away but I'll get back to you as soon as he replies cheers for now peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 On 20 August 2016 at 11:00 AM, icerolyuk said: Ok Howard I think my mechanic is away but I'll get back to you as soon as he replies cheers for now peter Howard The engineering company that did the front wheel bearings has just emailed me to say the details have been written down and put in the post to me today so I should have the details for you either tomorrow or the day after. Also I just saw this advert today of a Max for sale by auction in USA http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/maxwell/25/1870813.html Kind regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Thanks Peter, I just picked up a spare set of hubs and spindles so maybe I can convert those and be ready when the current set fails. Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Ok Howard that's good news - I'll still post the detail when I have it just in case anyone else needs the information regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, icerolyuk said: Ok Howard that's good news - I'll still post the detail when I have it just in case anyone else needs the information regards Peter Peter, I think you misunderstood my post. I still need the information to convert the parts I just found. Thanks, Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Aha ok - yes my brain ain't too good today cheers for now p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrace Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 Thanks guys for the info. Drove Max for an hour or so today taking people rides. Does have some shake in front end and also wobble in wood wheels. Taking front end down to check bearings again as play still there and its not in kingpins or tie rod ends. Have some in steering box but not much and can find no adjustment for gear play on the box .I have a manual for cars with production numbers after 447204 which is a much later model that shows a worm gear adjustment but also suggests removing pitman arm and steering shaft, rotating 1/4 turn and reassembling to engage fresher section of gear in straight ahead position. What an unusual thing! May try it for gear box play. My car is 1916. Does anyone know of steering box adjustment? Thanks bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 On 5 September 2016 at 3:25 PM, hddennis said: Thanks Peter, I just picked up a spare set of hubs and spindles so maybe I can convert those and be ready when the current set fails. Howard Dennis Hi Howard I'm out and about in town (London) all day and my partner just texted that the postman just delivered a letter from the engineering company so I will get to see it and scan for you when I get back home tonight cheers peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 On 5 September 2016 at 4:43 PM, hddennis said: Peter, I think you misunderstood my post. I still need the information to convert the parts I just found. Thanks, Howard Dennis Howard Attached bill of sale which lists the bearing part numbers and they just said "modified the hub to fit bearings" which is not much information but hopefully the bearing numbers are useful - I do remember they had problems balancing one of the wheels after fitting the bearings and they had to mess about a lot before they got it fitted with no wheel wobble - very expensive but very necessary work - wish you best of luck with yours regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 4 hours ago, icerolyuk said: Howard Attached bill of sale which lists the bearing part numbers and they just said "modified the hub to fit bearings" which is not much information but hopefully the bearing numbers are useful - I do remember they had problems balancing one of the wheels after fitting the bearings and they had to mess about a lot before they got it fitted with no wheel wobble - very expensive but very necessary work - wish you best of luck with yours regards Peter Thanks Peter, this is a big help. I really appreciate it. Could you check your hubs against the photos I've just posted? Notice how my hubs narrow to a smaller size just below the bottom of the hubcap? If my memory is correct this is where I ran into trouble when I tried planning this modernization on paper before. I'm curious if your later Maxwell has the same hub narrowing? Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerolyuk Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 On 5 September 2016 at 4:43 PM, hddennis said: Peter, I think you misunderstood my post. I still need the information to convert the parts I just found. Thanks, Howard Dennis On 6 September 2016 at 0:28 AM, ulrace said: Thanks guys for the info. Drove Max for an hour or so today taking people rides. Does have some shake in front end and also wobble in wood wheels. Taking front end down to check bearings again as play still there and its not in kingpins or tie rod ends. Have some in steering box but not much and can find no adjustment for gear play on the box .I have a manual for cars with production numbers after 447204 which is a much later model that shows a worm gear adjustment but also suggests removing pitman arm and steering shaft, rotating 1/4 turn and reassembling to engage fresher section of gear in straight ahead position. What an unusual thing! May try it for gear box play. My car is 1916. Does anyone know of steering box adjustment? Thanks bob 5 hours ago, hddennis said: Thanks Peter, this is a big help. I really appreciate it. Could you check your hubs against the photos I've just posted? Notice how my hubs narrow to a smaller size just below the bottom of the hubcap? If my memory is correct this is where I ran into trouble when I tried planning this modernization on paper before. I'm curious if your later Maxwell has the same hub narrowing? Howard Dennis Howard Attached bill of sale which lists the bearing part numbers and they just said "modified the hub to fit bearings" which is not much information but hopefully the bearing numbers are useful - I do remember they had problems balancing one of the wheels after fitting the bearings and they had to mess about a lot before they got it fitted with no wheel wobble - very expensive but very necessary work - wish you best of luck with yours regards Peter For ulrace.... Bob the steering box adjustment I really am not sure - the only manual I could find of that era is the 1917 owners manual which was published November 1916 which is at oldcarbrochures.com and does not have chassis numbers listed - my own car is early 1920 but with a late 1919 engine and I have the 1920 brochure which is good for mine. Hope me you get this answered regards Peter For hddennis... Howard I will have to take a look but am now travelling down to the south coast for a week - when we discovered the bearing problem on both front wheels it was decided to ship the wheels up without dissembling the hub from the wheel so as not to disturb the position and therefore the balance of the hub within the wheel i.e. and as far as I'm aware the engineering company did the work with the hubs in place but I'll check when I get back next week regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrace Posted December 2, 2016 Author Share Posted December 2, 2016 Update on wheel bearings. The inner ball bearings on my car were worn .008 on each ball. Replaced with new 9/16 ball bearings and took over half the play out. The remaining wear is on the race in the back of the wheel. The spindle shows no wear but the inner race is pitted and scored. I will try to replace those over the winter. Bearings were extremely inexpensive . I got 30 of them $10 and change. Took 22 to replace all. Incidentely the 1/4 turn on the pitmen arm took all play out of steering box. Still has full turning radius.Very easy to do and amazing result. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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