trimacar Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hard to tell from picture, but that looks like low quality batting, made from "linters". Linters are the very short fibers left on a cotton seed, after long fibers are removed in the ginning process. You want batting made of regular cotton with longer fibers. Unless you have another use for it, you'll end up with a ton left over from a roll . Where are yo located? I could send you enough to do what you want....or if you want a roll, I'll let you know where I get some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I'm glad I asked Dave. No one in the family does quilting so a full roll would be wasteful. The only place close to home that has cotton batting is Joanne fabrics and it looks to light and fluffy. The pads front to back measure around 8 feet so assuming I used 1 layer of full pad width that's around 5.5 yards. If it's wide enough to cut down the middle only 3 yards. It would be great if you can sell it to me. I'm in Waterford, CT. Please let me know the total and preferred method of payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just email me your address, roll width is enough to do 4 pads if you cut carefully! I'll send you three+yards.... David.coco@comcast.net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 If you cannot return the "batting" you have you might be able to sell it to a local Funeral Home. We/they use it for positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thanks Tinindian. I wouldn't have thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 14 hours ago, MikeC5 said: Thanks Tinindian. I wouldn't have thought of that. I'm not sure I would have WANTED to think of that! Ah, the secrets of business being revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 So I'm doing an initial test fitting of the cotton batting pad material and I'm not quite sure if I should try and taper the pad so it gets thinner at the bottom edge of pad or leave it full thickness? I suspect it needs to be tapered up top in order to avoid a visible ridges on the top panel. I'm guessing from David's earlier photos of the Dodge top that it does need some tapering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I did my first pass at tapering the cotton batting and have temporarily folder up the cotton wrap and the outer bowdrill as in these pics. I''m unsure if I should taper more of the upper side. The 3rd photo shows the pad on 2nd bow from front and 4th photo is same with my finger squashing it down. Is the gap here between top of squashed pad and bow surface too large? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I'm not sure what I'm looking at, is there no side seam on pad? Bottom of pad should be top material, top of pad, sewn on edge with top material folded over bowdrill. Slight feathering of cotton on edges... Bowdrill on bows should be fastened or glued on top, so that edge of material and fasteners aren't visible. It appears from picture tacks and staples are visible on front of bow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Hi Dave, I’m using a less expensive top material that has a white cotton inner liner. I’m planning to have the inner liner of bowdrill go on separately before top material. So I’m just using bowdrill for pads and have no side seam. (I just used a single piece of bowdrill for the pad outer wrap). I secured the bowdrill to each bow, then installled the jute straps, then the cotton wrapping was glued to the straps, then the cotton batting (also glued). I then tapered the cotton batting at uppper and lower edge of pad, then folded the bottom cotton wrap piece over the batting, then upper cotton wrap, then folded lower bowdrill flap up on top of cotton wrap and finally folded upper bowdrill flap over. No glue on these folded over pieces. As for the bow coverings, I erred in using staples in some areas where I originally thought they would not be exposed. I plan to add a strip of bowdrill with tacks to cover these areas. I can’t use glue with the bowdrill since it absorbs it and shows through. A lesson learned... Edited February 4, 2018 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Can someone tell me what kind of back window I need for my 1918 DB Touring? I've seen it both ways. I have one back rectangle window. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 This is what was originally on a 1922 Dodge, six diamonds, the experts can say whether it's correct for a 1918. I'd have to dig up dimensions, my memory tells me 12 inches high and 4 inches wide, but then again, I barely remember what day it is.... Now that I look at it closely, guess this was one of the original "split windows"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Those windows look like soft plastic - I can't imagine that was what they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The plastic (or, in the period, what they called isenglass) windows, in the cathedral style as shown, was what Dodge Brothers used for quite a few years in the teens and twenties. What you see is absolutely correct for those cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Hi Dave, I don't know if you saw my reply from Sunday on my pads question. I realize that using top material for the pad wrapping does add strength to the whole pad assembly and that using bowdrill exclusively instead for the wrap gives up some strength. I have tried to compensate for this by the separate straps (one in middle and two diagonal) which have are made from seat belt material wrapped with bowdrill. Edited February 9, 2018 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Seat belt straps should be plenty strong, that's for sure! I make my straps out of top material, folded twice so that one ends up with three layers, then sewn together. That's strong too. Yes, it's a little more expensive to use the correct top material for pads and straps, but in the overall cost of restoring a car it's small dollars. All the correct materials for a top restoration can be bought for under $1000. I admire you for doing this yourself, any reservations I have are because I'm somewhat of a purist, and I like to see things done as they were originally done at the factory. There's a reason they were done that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I hear you Dave. If this turns out reasonably well and I gain enough confidence, I plan to eventually re-do it with the 'good stuff'. I was afraid to plunk down that much on materials without ever having sewn anything prior. I was concerned that it wouldn't be strong enough for those straps so I looked for something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Was there only one type rear window for a 1918 Touring? I have the rectangle window, but it looks like I need to figure on cathedral. I noticed several different style cathedral windows, different in numbers of windows. If I must have cathedral windows, Trimacar, how could I go about getting the dimensions from you? That would also mean I have a rectangular window for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Hi Dave, before I sew up these pads I wanted to ask if it looks like I have too much cotton in them. Does it look overstuffed? I used the full thickness of cotton batting you gave me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 The full thickness of the batting is fine. It will compress some when you close it up, and a little more when you put the top on. Take your fingers and feather the edges, pulling off that sharp edge on each side . This will make the pad a little smoother. I can't tell from the pictures, but your outside edge might be a smidgeon too far down the bow. On a Dodge top, the side line runs from just under the front bow by about 1/2 inch, to just below the tack hole that you see through the metal on the two rear bows. If you get much lower than this, side curtains will be hitting the top when doors open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) Thanks Dave. I'll post up another couple shots with the bowdrill wrapped and ready for sewing. Edited March 2, 2018 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 The pads are sewn up. The right side looks smoother. I just couldn't get the wrinkles out of the left side. I hope they won't be obvious under the top material... I also threw in a couple of photos of the temporary top rests I made. I turned them down on a lathe and then heat/bend. Eventually I'll find some vintage ones and replace these. Finding the correct Dodge ones is a bit of a holy grail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 MikeC5, give me a photo of what you need for the top rests - I think I have an extra pair..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Hi Willy, I have this photo from a '25 touring (unfortunately without scale). The Dodge parts list says the top rests are part numbers 1420 (RH) and 1421 (LH), which may appear on the casting part of the assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I'll check. Did you ever get your rear window? I have one, and it doesn't go to my 1918 DB. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 Yes, I did get a rear window but thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 MikeC5, The extra pair I have are not the same as your photo - not even sure they match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Thanks anyway Willie. I've got a lot of other work to do before I worry about the top rests anyway. I got a pair in a box of parts that came with the car but they seem a bit too small to (lengthwise) to grab all 4 top sockets (and that is without the roof fabric getting in the way) so I'm going to wait until I get the top on, then fold it down and measure what's really needed. The real Dodge ones seem to be as rare as can be so I'll probably just make do with a matching pair that are functional but not 'correct'. My car has had a lot of rust repair and won't be winning any trophies so I'm not concerned about that level of authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Well I'm plunging ahead after a summer/fall respite. I have the rear window installed in the rear curtain and have secured the inner bowdrill lining (this is a 2 layer top). I'm at the point where I need to make up a double welt to go around the inside to cover the staples. The 2nd photo shows the bowdrill fabric folder up to show the wooden window frame; 3rd photo shows the bowdrill stapled to the wood on interior facing side of window frame. I'm thinking of using a double welt covered with same fabric to hide the staples (unless there are suggestions of a better way). My question is about the dimensioning of double welt. If you buy 8/32 double welt, does this mean each of the two cords is 1/8" or the overall width of the two side by side is 1/8"? I can't seem to find anything that spells out the convention (and I need to get the correct double welt foot for the sewing machine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) great job. I have to do a 1923 Moon this summer and this was great. Edited January 28, 2019 by jan arnett (2) wrong date (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 What type of sewing machine are you using to do the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I'm using a Singer 111W155. It's a beast of 1957 vintage but works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jan arnett (2) Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 One great job which I will be using it in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 This is my first time ever doing something like this. It may not come out perfect but I will learn from it. I made it a little bit harder by not spending the money on the more expensive top material that has the black grain on outside and tan color on inside (so inside of car is not like a cave). Instead I bought a less expensive top material and am using a separate inside layer of tan bowdrill fabric. I thought maybe a could use spray contact cement to glue it to the top material but the glue soaks through the bowdrill and leaves uneven staining (on test strips). David Coco says some cars were done like this back in the day (but not DBs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Well, don't remember what I said, but most cars that had an inner lining had one that was like a headliner, under the bows and hanging down to hide the bows. This was only on the most expensive of the early open cars. Most other toppings were laminated, either two or three ply, with the bottom layer being a fabric and the top layer or coating being a flexible, water proof covering. I'd disagree with using a cheap fabric. Let's say you have the choice between a $25 a yard topping, or a $70 a yard topping. 12 yards or so for a touring car, so the difference in cost is $420, a minimal cost difference in the overall car cost. I'm glad you're learning how to do the top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I'm trying to get back at this during the coming winter. I could use some help figuring out what is normally done around the edges of the 'wings'. The photo shows what appear to be a separate reinforcing piece that get s sewn to the folder over edge of wing. The sketch is what I think is going on here (section through the bottom edge of wing). It looks like something similar is going on at the left/right edges of the top. I would appreciate any tips on how these reinforced areas are constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 You have too many folds in your sketch. Get the top side panel to the correct line on side and back, then sew a separate reinforcing piece, matching that contour, at edge and 1.5-2 inches in from edge. Binding then covers the raw edge. This reinforcing Pierce is made slightly larger than sew lines then trimmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Thanks David. Do you normally make a binding from top material or buy something ready-made like this? https://www.albrightssupply.com/Convertible-Top-Binding-Black-Stayfast-1-1-4-p/rbind.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Hi David, I'm trying to make sure I understand how to bind off the wing. I've sketched up what I understand to be a double edge binding around the wing material and reinforcing piece. But in the photos, I don't see anything resembling the edge of the binding material showing on the outside of the top. I would much appreciate help with this detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) I've been making some progress on the rear curtain. I had to do some research and practice on binding edges. It's not so difficult on straight sections or large radius curves but getting it right on tight radii outside curves (like the forward tip of side flaps) is tricky as the material really wants to bunch up. I also found a contact cement that sprays a more fine mist of adhesive that, when applied carefully, does not soak through the bowdrill (tan color) inner liner material, (which causes stains on the displayed side). Edited December 22, 2019 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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