harry yarnell Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Yesterday, I had a weird experience with my '88 Reatta. Was heading down I-95 for a dinner date in Baltimore at rush hour When the beep of the CRT let me know there was low brake pressure. Both brake dash lamps (red and amber) were lit. I'm in bumper to bumper traffic on Boston st, with a 1/2 mile to go. There's no place to pull off. The brakes work fine. My anxiety goes sky high. I make it to the restaurant and ponder my next move over dinner. Come out and start up and the lamps glow for the usual 20 seconds and go out. No messages. I drive the 35 miles back home ; my eyes glued to the two dark lamps. No further issues. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Harry, I had a similar problem with my brakes recently. I think in my case it was heat related because I was going so slow but I don't know that for sure. You can read about my experience with it here: Temporary Brake Problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 Interesting Ronnie; similar experience. 95° temps, A/C on, stop and go traffic. Now my engine temp was normal around 200° I've got a 180 stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Same here. It was over 95* outside but my engine was cool. I have 160* thermostat and fan controls that keep the engine temp between 170*-190*. However, driving at slow speed for extended periods really caused the temp to go up under the hood. When I opened the hood it was like opening the door on a gas grill. I'm thinking the pump overheated from me having to ride the brakes so much going 7-10 MPH on that 11 mile loop and possibly started cavitating some. Don't know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 I'm discounting boiling brake fluid. I had good brakes. ...but I don't have any answer other than a WAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 We share this system with an alphabet of other vehicles from Alfa to VW's and the brake warning light is always a bad sign, but sometimes it's just the light and it's a stuck relay or a loose or dirty connection. For peace of mind, check your wire cable and connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Could be the pump got hot and froze momentarily. This is why mine is reprogrammed for the fans to be all in at 188F (but with AC, the low fan should be on even with stock settings.) I find that running the engine cooler makes everything under the hood last longer & the A/C works better. Is the heat shield on the exhaust crossover in place ? That is right below the pump. If so might consider adding a second shield or air vent (Fieros of the period had an air pump to cool the alternator and distributer, my 93 GTP has a vent to the alternator.). BTW even if you lose the Teeves assist completely, you still have "stand on 'em" front brakes as a backup. Edited July 8, 2016 by padgett (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Guest of you all here said: And also the "pump to set" rear brakes (although pumping till lockup would be very bad) I have disconnected the electrical connector to the pump and driven my car to know what to expect in the event of pump failure. As Padgett said, there are no rear brakes and you really have to stand on the pedal to get the front brakes to work but you can stop. I think it might be a good idea for any Reatta owner to do this in a safe place so you know what you are in for in the event of a pump failure. If my pump had went out 50 miles from home I'm confident that I could have made it home safely by keeping as much distance as possible from other cars and driving slowly. I'm not sure if I would have done that since I have towing on my insurance policy but I still feel better about it since I now know what to expect if the brake pump fails. Edited July 8, 2016 by Ronnie (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) I edited my last post after realizing you were talking about the "Parking" brake. I have tried that pump to set brake you are referring to and for stopping purposes it is almost useless. At least on my car. It will hardly slow my car enough to tell it is applied. It is made for parking but I never use it. Don't count on it in an emergency situation. It is better to get familiar with stopping the car without power assist. Edited July 8, 2016 by Ronnie (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 I don't share your concern on 30 year old fan motors. Either they work, or they don't...and they don't run all the time; unless you wire them to do that...like someone on this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoytsur Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Are you certain it is heat? I live in Sarasota, Florida, which is like an oven. We have the super hot humid weather non-stop for 6 or 7 months but my 1990 daily driver has none of the problems described ... Teves brakes included. Last year I did change my radiator in hopes the engine, which always ran a little too hot for my taste [about 12:10 if the Temp Gauge were a clock], would run cooler. It now runs right at 12:00 on the dial all the time ... in bumper to bumper grueling conditions for 15 minutes or more it may slip over to 12:03 until I get under way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted July 9, 2016 Author Share Posted July 9, 2016 No, I think heat is only a conjecture at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Why it is nice to have two fans, if one fails the other will work. Did you know that both are programmed to turn off over 50 mph ? (Ram effect is enough then). OTOH at low speeds you need at least one to keep the AC working properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDirk Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 I too have had this happen on the good 88 a couple of times. Subsequent diagnostics revealed no hardware problems and the system returned to normal operation on it's own within one or two ignition cycles. I cannot come up with a good commonality to explain it away. In the first instance I was driving in an area of town with four way stops almost every block. After about 10 stops (well, St. Louis stops) in a row, the red and amber lights came on and the CRT low pressure warning was displayed. Brakes continued to work and felt normal. More recently I had two ignition cycles back to back where it happened and began to suspect the accumulator. Then it went away just as suddenly as it appeared. This was on a VERY hot day here and a thermal problem is as plausible an explanation as any that are likely. I would note that at no point did it feel as though the brakes were failing, but I did run tests later and everything checked out. Fluid was flushed about a year ago and is about due again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 6 hours ago, Guest of you all here said: I wonder- if the accumulator does have something to do with this... full of fluid, nitrogen under huge pressure- could it act like a "Wet Bulb" thermometer (dew point), actually becoming super hot with heat and humidity, and the under hood temperatures, hot fluid- make the gas expand, enough to force fluid from the system pressure switch area- and create a faux "low pressure" warning- but without an actual effect in brake performance? You're probably right on the switch as the location and heat as the cause, but the physics supposition of "Wet Bulb" would be a real stretch without having at least one other problem. The switch is a switch and eventually all switches go bad, some fail complete, others get scratchy and don't make contact like they did when new. Crimp connectors and spade lug terminals also have their own special quirks and the wiring harness is all crimp and spade. Heat and climate affect these wire connections, they are metal, heat expands, cold contracts, metal fatigues, rapid temp change aggravates and micro arcing in the process dirties the contact point. Just unplugging and re plugging things scratches a fresh connect and solves a lot of problems that aren't hard failures. Sometimes you need sand paper or a small file to scratch them up a bit, other times you need to take a pliers and snug them up a bit and sometimes a little brake fluid seeps past the internal seal and you need to replace the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Quote Would need to instrument the brake pressure. However I believe the "low pressure" warning comes on long before you lose power assist. Could be many things but if comes on (and low pressure will trip the red which will turn on the yellow) but instrumenting or seeing if the pump is running when the light is on is the only way to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) I made this last night. Right now I can only test at what pressures the pressure switch kicks the pump on and off. With this hooked up and the key in the ON position, the pump cycles continually. Initially the pump starts running at zero PSI and tops out at somewhere between 2500 and 2800 psi. when it shuts off. It takes several seconds for the pressure to bleed down to 2000psi. then the pump kicks back on and repeats the cycle. It didn't occur to me last night to watch the indicator lamps on the dash to determine at what pressure the lamps cycle on and off. Thanks for the tip Padgett. To conduct the trouble shooting methods outlined in the FSM while the Accumulator is in place, I need to fabricate an adapter to connect the gauge to the pump body instead of the Accumulator port. In the '88 FSM it shows a connection using a banjo bolt fitting to connect. I don't know about the '89 (**) but the '90's don't use that connection. It is a tapered nut holding a steel tube in place. Hmmm... Back to the drawing board. (* I looked at my '89 and it too has the steel tubing as opposed to the rubber line with the banjo bolts at either end. I'm assuming that only the '88 MY had the flexible rubber line instead of the steel tubing.*) For whatever reason, the photos posted in revers order of their original selection. You can start at the bottom of the pics and work your way up. I think they will make more sense that way. John F. Edited July 10, 2016 by Machiner 55 Noted reverse order of photos. Also noted '88 MY. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 I've had 'issues' with a '91 Allante, with a similar braking system by Bosch. I rigged a small panel with a lamp and switch. The lamp was wired across the pump so I could see when (or if) the pump was running. The switch was wired to energize the pump (eliminating downstream problems). I may do the same with the Reatta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I was looking to the Lotus site for the side by side pic of the WABCO and ATE accumulators when I found this link for WABCO's direct from England at the BREXIT pound exchange rate, even with shipping and import tax added it's a darn good price. LR Part: STC2784 - $106.60 - Rapid US Delivery Adwww.lrdirect.com/STC2784 This ad is based on your current search terms. Visit Google’s Why This Ad page to learn more or opt out. 4.6 rating for lrdirect.com All known Land Rovr Parts listed And if you're wondering how well it will fit in the space available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 So, what are you saying here. That these WABCO units are a direct replacement / fit for our Reattas? You've purchased one and tested it out and it works flawlessly? What... what's that son? Speak up I say. I'm deaf in one eye and can't hear out the other! John F. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Machiner 55 said: So, what are you saying here. That these WABCO units are a direct replacement / fit for our Reattas? You've purchased one and tested it out and it works flawlessly? What... what's that son? Speak up I say. I'm deaf in one eye and can't hear out the other! John F. What I'm sayen here son, what I'm a sayen is that so long as you're not blind in both ears that you can see that usen the real McCoy will be easer than usen the compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 8 minutes ago, Digger914 said: What I'm sayen here son, what I'm a sayen is that so long as you're not blind in both ears that you can see that usen the real McCoy will be easer than usen the compatible. I don't find the thread you referred to, Reply to Brake pressure accumulator. very useful. The accumulator that was installed by butchering the cross brace doesn't appear to be a Wabco STC 2784 (below). The photos you posted (second photo) in your previous post don't seem to be one either. I see no reason to promote the sale of the Wabco by providing a link to a vendor unless it has been proven to work on a Buick Reatta. What is the real story? Has anyone actually used a Wabco STC 2784 successfully on a Reatta? It should be made clear if the Wabco is going to work on a Reatta or not. Otherwise someone will be stuck with an accumulator that won't work. Wabco STC 2784 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDirk Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Crikey, looks as though another British invasion may be in order. I'd be a right jolly old chap purchasing an accumulator at $106. That's the dog's bollocks, and I'm not winding you up guv'ner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Ronnie said: I don't find the thread you referred to, Reply to Brake pressure accumulator. very useful. The accumulator that was installed by butchering the cross brace doesn't appear to be a Wabco STC 2784 (below). The pic I posted, (two accumulators side by side) were the STC-- made by WABCO on the left and the Delco 255-- made by ATE that it replaced on the right. The link posting went to the install of a WABCO compatible that Erikthered612 bought and installed without realizing the posting he bought the STC-- from said it was a compatible This guy went online, found a better priced accumulator and made it fit. It might not be pretty, but it is a serviceable accumulator and unless the bladder blows, he shouldn't ever need to buy another one. If you read the whole string you will see that spinning wheels was out of the Hydak and I suggested the more expensive and available today WABCO. Now with the pound down you can buy a WABCO shipped direct from England for less than you can get one from here in the states, Don't know how long the supply will last, don't know how long the pound will be down, but if you need an accumulator today, buying a Wabco sold as an STC-- from a rover part supplier shipped direct from England has a pretty good price today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 10:43 PM, Digger914 said: All righty then. Post #30 answers my query a bit better the reply in post #27. Thank you. John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger914 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 My bad on post #27, couldn't resist answering a foghorn leghorn with a foghorn leghorn, always liked that cartoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now