I Need to Pick Your Brain! 1965 Mustang

[Guest RevHerUp]

I am brand-new both to this forum and car collecting.  As such, I wanted to ask all you highly knowledgeable people for your advice.  I'm not asking you all to make the decision.  I will do that.  But I would really appreciate your advice and thoughts so my decision will be an educated one!!  Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this and any replies you leave!  

I just bought a 1965 Mustang Coup that needs a frame-up restoration.  I was told, and it appears to be, 100% original.  Yes, even the glass!  It is a 289 engine 2 bl carb with an automatic transmission with matching numbers.  It is a CA black plate and still has this original front plate on it.  It even came with the original little placard that the Ford dealership gave to the first owner which has their names and information on it.  The car appears to have never been restored at any point.  The body is mostly straight.  Most of the paint is gone.  I call the color of the car "metal".  LOL.  There's some body rust, but not too bad.  All the outside window chrome pieces are there and intact.  The interior is 100% original.  So, due to it's potential, I bought the car with the intention of restoring the car to its factory, original condition and showing it.  But now I am having second thoughts.

(1.) I can't get over thinking the car won't be very fun to drive as a 225 hp with an automatic tranny.  Not a lot of muscle going on with that!  
(2.) I've found green mold inside the seats, the dash and the carpet that stinks.  I originally just stuck my head inside before I bought it.  I never got in.  A big mistake.  Even the metal seat frames are all completely rusted over which I don't think can be sand blasted off (I have no idea).  So reupholstering the seats and saying they are the original seats seems to be out the window.  All of the interior must go in the garbage except the headliner.  I think the dash too.  I discovered that a part of the right side of the driver's gauge is broken off which I hadn't noticed.  That can't be fixed!  So that has to go too damn it.  Even the seat belts have green mold growing on them and must go.  There's also green mold inside the driver's door. (3.) The seller told me the 2bl carburetor for the V8 old Mustangs is rare.  That it was the economic version.  So that added to me thinking of restoring the car to 100% factory original.  I do know that V8s in general usually have 4bl carburetors, but from what I see online, there are a lot of these V8 2bls for sale out there so it doesn't seem rare to me.  

So is this car worth saving it to 100% original now?  

I do absolutely LOVE old Mustangs!  So I don't have a problem keeping the car.  I am thinking now of using different colors than the factory ones. Turning it into a GT (both interior and exterior) with a HiPo engine (I know the current V8 can be rebuilt into one) with a Paxton supercharger attached to it as a tribute version of a sorts.  So that would mean changing to a manual transmission as well.  Lots of chrome.  Bigger brakes probably.  And other performance enhancers.  A fun hotrod to drive and look at!

Spending the money to do so is fine with me.  But I am worried that by not keeping it all 100% original, I will substantially lower the price of the car if I ever sell it (I don't want to ruin a classic car either).  Most people want to buy classic cars that are all original.  I don't want to spend $30,000 to restore it and then have it be worth $18,000 because I modified it.  That would be really dumb of me.  

"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, 
And sorry I could not travel both 
And be one traveler, long I stood 
And looked down one as far as I could 
To where it bent in the undergrowth; 
Then took the other, as just as fair..."
 

[19tom40]

Here is my 2 cents. A car is original only once. When you change something, it is not original. but unrestored. When you restore a car, it means returning it to the same condition that it was when it left the factory. The quality of the work has more affect on the price than the modifications made, unless the modifications are not main-stream. Modifications like Coddington made, will affect the value. If you have the signature, the value will be greater, if you don't have the signature, you must find someone that will appreciate the mods as much as you did. Quality reproductions of items that did not stand the test of time, have become as acceptable as the original parts.

 

I believe that the stock engine will give you enough performance so that the car will be enjoyable to drive.

 

I don't follow Mustang values, but I believe that quality reproduction parts will not affect the value. The mold is easy to kill with a bleach solution and would not return if the car was kept in a dry storage.

 

You will have to keep the car many years in order to completely recoup the restoration or mod costs. I have had my 40 Mercury over 40 years, and doubt that I could recover what it has cost me for restoration and repairs, but I have had a great time driving it and showing it. I have made many friends over the years, that I would not have met without the car.

 

It is your car and you will need to enjoy it when it is finished. You will spend more money that you think you will, just to get it driveable and to look presentable.

 

You should post your question on one of the Mustang Forums, to get opinions from people that are interested in restoring and modifying these cars.

 

I wish you many years of enjoyment with your Mustang.

[carbking]

I was looking at new Mustangs in 1965. The two-barrel 289 was NOT rare at the time. Would guess more than 50 percent were built that way. And performance on a car as light as the Mustang with the two-barrel was brisk in 1965; a good friend bought one. You will find the dogmatic transmission hurts performance more than the two-barrel engine.

 

Have fun.

 

Jon.

 

 

[Guest RevHerUp]

I see.  So the 2bls are not rare after all.  Maybe they are rare to see nowadays restored all original?  Anyways I don't think it's going to change the value of the car which ever way I choose to go.  That's information I needed to know so thank you Jon and 19atom40.

 

You both are saying that it would be exciting to drive stick so perhaps I have nothing to worry about.

 

And 19atom40 - I found that vintage mustang site so thanks!

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Guest RevHerUp]

<sigh>. That should say "stock" not "stick".  Dang autocorrect!

[Matt Harwood]

Mustangs are fun, inexpensive cars with awesome parts availability and support. I can hardly think of a better place to start than a vintage Mustang if you're just getting into the hobby. A great many early Mustangs have been modified and the Mustang hobby doesn't seem to frown on such things like other clubs, so I'm always of the opinion that you should build the car the way you want. These are not so rare and highly prized that you're taking something unique out of circulation and the right modifications probably won't even hurt at resale time.

 

I'm going to politely disagree with 19tom40 and say that I think this particular car is beyond "survivor" type preservation and if you want to fix it up, you should. I'm always happy to see the hobby pushing back in the other direction towards saving good, untouched, original cars, but deteriorated old cars and good original cars are not the same thing. If there's no paint left, if the interior is shot, if it has rust that needs fixing, then it's time to restore it, not necessarily preserve it as-is. Yes, cars are only original once, but Ford wasn't selling rusty, no-paint cars in 1965, so you're not really "preserving" anything at this point.

 

I should note that early Mustangs cannot be "matching numbers." Ford didn't start putting VINs on engine blocks until sometime in 1968, and even then it was haphazard. There's no such thing as a "matching numbers" 1965 Mustang (even a Shelby). So don't worry about that being important to the car's value.

 

The 289 is a great-running motor and even with a 2-barrel carburetor, it's plenty entertaining to drive. We're jaded today when new Mustangs have 500+, but it wasn't that long ago that 200 was pretty stout. My wife's 1966 Mustang GT convertible is a lot of fun to drive and plenty quick, and after all, how much time are you really going to spend with your foot on the floor using all that horsepower (that cost so much money to create)? Remember that 98% of the time, you're going to be cruising gently at part throttle, using perhaps 40 horsepower. Don't get hung up on numbers and performance. Think about how you'll really be using the car. Most guys who want big horsepower merely want to point at it at shows and say, "500 horsepower." They don't actually use it.

 

At this point, you probably are going to spend at least $30,000 to restore the car and it'll be worth $18,000 when you're done. You can do the restoration for less, but a Mustang coupe of any kind is never going to bring big money. I have what is arguably the nicest Mustang coupe I've ever seen, and it's an A-code with factory A/C, console, and power steering, and I can't get offers at $25,000, so that's the market. You probably WILL be upside-down on it. Welcome to the wonderful world of old cars.

 

Join the Mustang club and you'll get an idea of what's out there. Put the car back together the way you want--if you want a 4-barrel carburetor, it's a cheap, quick, and easy upgrade that won't raise any eyebrows. If you want to paint it red and it was originally green, do it! Most of all, just have fun with it, whatever fun means to you.

[alsancle]

The problem is that this particular car as built is at the low rung of the desirability ladder when it comes to resell.  The only lower Mustang would be the coupe with a 6 banger.  The amount of money to restore it is exactly the same as what it would cost to restore the same car in convertible or fast back version with a hotter factory engine and a 4 speed.   One of those cars would bring 2 to 3 times the money of the coupe.   If you are going to spend the money, blood, sweat tears and time to restore a car,  wait and choose one that has more upside so that in the end you won't lose 75% of your money.  You will never make money, but won't get killed as badly.

 

I do agree with Matt, that with the Mustang you can take liberties and nobody really cares.  I think his 18k resell price is for a really well done restoration, which usually means professional, which means more than 30k worth of work.