My "New" 65 Rivi GS Restoration Project

[Guest fuzz]

I've been advised to start a thread by introducing myself to the membership.  I bought a matching number GS restoration PROJECT car this summer and just started on it about 6 weeks ago.  So far I've made good progress, however the fun is about to begin!  I lifted the body and had it, the frame, and as many parts as possible media blasted.  I brought the frame into my shop, painted it with KBS satin black rust seal.  Thanks to some advise here from Ed I found the correct springs and rebuilt the suspension with components from Rare Parts and Cars Inc.  As most of you know the bushings cost about 20% of the total cost of a heavily optioned car in 1965.  OUCH...

 

On to the body next.  It's pretty solid but does need floor pans and trunk pans as it must have sit outside for quite a while with windshield and rear window seals shot.  The frame is excellent, as are most of the body panels, but it does need work around the windows and floors.  The good news is I found a 65 parts car with an exceptional body.  If I wasn't hell bent on keeping it all original I'd drop the good body on the good frame but that isn't going to happen.  I'll take my time, do some cutting and welding and will be glad I did in the end.  

 

Attached are a few pix from where I started to where it is now.  More updates to follow, thanks for those that have already helped!

 

Tim

[alini]

Welcome, looking forward to your progress.  I remember when I started my project almost 3.5 years ago.  Just remember to enjoy the work, if it gets frustrating, take a break

[Guest fuzz]

I've been watching yours, I like the counter on there.  Although I think that could be depressing.  Love the woodgrain you put on the dash!

[alini]

I never refer to the counter on my webpage   I worry more about the hours on my personal tracker.   Currently at 672.5 hours.   I lost alot of days because the temps here in Vegas.  The garage is a no go zone for three months at a time

[Paul K.]

Great project!

 

Sad to see any rust free 65 be cannibalized but I guess its for the greater good.

[Guest fuzz]

yeah, I know.  I've struggled with that too.  

[lrlforfun]

OK Fuzz: I would NEVER part a rust free 65 Riv...especially with your skill set. Floors and trunk pans perhaps don't grow on trees, never the less they are available.   Mitch

[RivNut]

Good body + good frame = the only way to go. 

[Seafoam65]

            Fuzz....I'm still trying to track down my Dad's white 65 Riviera. I see from your avatar that your parts car is white. Is

it an extremely low number vin with an early build date in August or September with base saddle interior and crank windows?

thanks, Winston

[Guest fuzz]

no, the parts car is seafoam green.  What you saw is the GS after it was blasted.  that's bare metal

[Guest fuzz]

so are you saying I'm better off putting the non-GS body on the GS frame?  Aren't I killing the value of it?  I can't transfer the VIN and Body tags can I?

[RivNut]

There's no indicator of the GS option in the VIN or on the data plate.  Only if you're concerned with having a numbers matching car would you run into a problem.  The VIN and the stamped engine serial number "match."

[Seafoam65]

so are you saying I'm better off putting the non-GS body on the GS frame?  Aren't I killing the value of it?  I can't transfer the VIN and Body tags can I?

       For the car to legitimately  be a GS you will need to have a car with a vin number that matches your GS engine. You are going to have to repair the car with sheet metal from your parts car. If your GS has extensive rust, what I would do if I were you is cut the

cowl section off the body of your GS and weld it to the body of your parts car, leaving all the tags undisturbed. To be legit your car will

need to have it's original numbers matching frame used as well. Repairing it this way would make much more sense than transferring floors and quarter panels and rockers. 

[alini]

Resale values are such an opinionated topic.  You will only get what someone is willing to pay.  You could do numbers matching, museum piece restoration....if no one wants the price you want...you wont sell the car. How many times have we seen cars go to auction (all makes and models) that sell for such low numbers because no one was willing to pay for it.  But the next car, same make and model but different color or eng combo sells for twice what the previous car sold for.

 

You can ask $109K for you car, because thats what you think its worth....doesnt mean you will get it   Build your car the way you need to and enjoy the process.  If you are doing it for resale value alone, you're wasting your time

[Guest fuzz]

I do want to keep it numbers matching, and don't want to do anything illegal or deceiving, there in lies the dilemma..

[alini]

There is nothing illegal about numbers not matching.  Now if you do not have numbers match and advertise it as such, that's dishonest.

[Guest fuzz]

I agree. My point is I have a numbers matching car now.  I'm getting advise to take the body from my parts car and use it, at which point it will no longer be numbers matching.

[Mozzie]

There was a case in Australia a while back where a car was purchased as an original Ford Falcon GT. The owner later found that someone had welded a new VIN into the firewall. The previous owner was taken to court and sued for the value of the car. Different situation being that the car in question was a limited numbers specific model rather than an option but it does tell you that such a practice can turn around to bite you later on.

If the rest of the body is good I'd be tempted to fix the floor with aftermarket repair panels and pay for it by reselling your other car as a restorable vehicle. Plenty of people replace floors in cars. But each to there own - no one wants to have to go through that process and have the concerns of workmanship and non standard welds so it's an understandable predicament.

[Seafoam65]

                      If you swap  your GS cowl onto your parts car body and use your GS frame your car will be legitimate, legal,

and not devalued. The cowl with it's undisturbed tags, along with your original frame keeps you legal. Everything behind the cowl is just

sheetmetal parts that are legal to be replaced. Many rare rusty cars are restored by changing out everything but the cowl and the frame......very common in the GTO hobby on GTO Judges.

[Guest fuzz]

Thanks for the response Winston, much appreciated!

[Seafoam65]

                      I'll share an interesting story regarding this topic......about twenty years ago, a member of my Pontiac club bought

 an original Super Duty Pontiac Ventura race car that was raced by Royal Pontiac in Detroit. Being a Michigan car, it was rusted like

it had come from the deck of the Titanic, but still had it's original drivetrain. The body  was pretty much gone from the cowl back, and the frame was rusty but repairable. The new owner decided to solve the rust the easy way.....He bought a rust free Texas Ventura

and swapped the body and cowl tags and restored it to the as raced appearance of the original race car, and when he got done, it was

gorgeous, and he began showing it, presenting it as the original Royal sponsored factory race car. He probably would have gotten away with the deception except the moron did not destroy the original car......he had it hauled off to a buddy's salvage yard where it was left to sit without being crushed. About a year later, a Pontiac collector who also happened to be a police detective by profession was walking the yard looking for parts when he stumbled across the carcass of the old race car, complete with faded Royal Pontiac

lettering on the sides. The cop started inquiring about buying the whole car for a parts car and the yard owner agreed to his generous price offer for a parts car with no title. After doing a title search from the frame vin, the cop appeared at the door of the owner of the

tag swapped car and gave him the option of either buying the rusty carcass from him for an extremely high price and  restoring the car using the original cowl and frame   , going to jail, or finding a buyer that would buy both cars then do the restoration legally. He chose the third option and wound up taking a bath on the car to keep from going to jail. The cop made a handsome profit on selling the original rusty car to the new owner.

[lrlforfun]

OK Winston: Several things here. One, that police officer could have ruined his career because blackmail (extortion) is illegal. Next...

 

I know I might preachin' to deaf ears but this matching numbers game really sucks the life out of the hobby for me. I'm hoping by voicing my opinion that I can wake up a group of people who I consider a silent majority and consider the matching numbers mythology meaningless like I do.

 

Again, a 65 Riv is still a 65 Riv. I believe it's value (how supply and demand are determined), like any old car is by condition and "personality".

 

Mitch

[RivNut]

I have a question or two.  What would happen to a car that was hit really hard in that part of the cowl, but wasn't damaged enough to be totaled.  Would the shop doing the work cut a cowl piece from another car and weld it in to make the fix?  Or because it happened to be in the area where the VIN was attached would the entire car be scrapped.?

 

Ed