Guest Corvanti Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 that's about as high as my fuel pump would get when it was running sporadically. i'd go with a new pump!!! i'm throwing a E041 code every few weeks - going to do Padgett's magnet repair in the ROJ tutorials when i get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 so you changed the pump and have around 42-45 psi now I have the pump and plan on changing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Corvanti Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 so you changed the pump and have around 42-45 psi now I have the pump and plan on changing it.yep, 42-45psi now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 The fuel pressure regulator on the LN3 is supposed to keep the pressure on the rail at 3.0 bar (43.5 psi) max. The pressure should approach that number with the engine idling. The 36 psi measurement seems on the low side.One quick check on the fuel pressure regulator: Pull the little vacuum hose and check for any sign of fuel in it. If any amount of dampness is detected, the FPR needs replacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 regulator is golden no signs of fuel contamination guess I gotta replace myself a pump crappy deal is I just filled the tank yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 89 Maui Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I had to empty my fuel tank, disconnected the fuel line off of the fuel rail and connected a clear hose and let the fuel pump feed into my 3 gal gas can then emptied into my daily driver. Emptied the fuel tank of 11-12 gal in 20 minutes. Even with a weak fuel pump it beats suctioning the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogold99 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I think if you pull the vacuum line off the regulator it will go to full pressure. Also, I had a brand new regulator quickly go bad (stuck open) on me. Put the old Bosch one back in, and its still going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I pulled the fill hose off the tank and used my super siphon it's a 1/2" hose with a copper fitting on one end with a marble inside took all of about 10 minutes to drain 9 gallons. I tested the regulator by swapping it with a brand new one and it didn't change a thing so I swapped it back . Got the pump out and I got the wrong strainer with it so it'll be back together tomorrow plus it gives me an excuse to finally do the rear brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I pulled the fill hose off the tank and used my super siphon it's a 1/2" hose with a copper fitting on one end with a marble inside I just saw one of these at HomeDepot and thought about picking one up just to have on hand seeing as it was under $9.00 (plus tax). Good to know it works with gasoline.John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 yeah works pretty slick and sure gets whatever your draining out quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 So I changed the pump over the weekend. Drove it to town today and it quit me again. no start just cranks till it cooled off for like 10 minutes then it started back up and I managed to get it to my work without issue. Threw the fuel pressure gauge on it again and 36 psi. WTF!!!!! so I pulled the vaccum line off the regulator and she jumped right up to 42-43 psi. So do I have a bad regulator? Tried to drive it home tonight after letting it sit for several hours made it about 10 miles from home and it started acting up it would die the SES light would flash and the speedo would drop off to zero even the the car was still doing probably 50-55 mph. I am stuck guys what is wrong with this thing the only code I am getting is a 41, the crank sensor, cam sensor, ICM (magnovox style), coil pack, fuel pump, filter, plugs, wires, ect are all new on this car don't have 200 miles on them. could my ICM be failing due to heat? Could my ECM be on the fritz? I stuck please help!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The fuel pressure regulator is responding correctly, are you sure that pressure gauge is reading accurately? Maybe it's off by a few lbs? 36 psi won't cause your engine to die and not restart, so you've got something else going on besides 36 psi and code 41.The three items that usually cause thermal related engine stalling and sometimes need a cool down before allowing restart are the ICM, CPS, and MAF. Don't know what all you've done with the MAF, but you can unplug it and see if it will allow engine to restart then. Won't run down the road that way, but should start and idle. Can also tap it with a screwdriver handle or something while it is connected and engine is idling, and see if engine stumbles. That's another sign of a bad MAF.New to me bit of info that you mention is the fact the spedo goes to 0 when car is moving. That number in a Reatta is calculated from a signal from the tranny speed sensor, received and processed by the BCM, then sent on to the ECM which then passes it on to the IPC. The fact it doesn't read correctly could be an ECM failure, or other issue, but again shouldn't by itself stall the engine. Does your PA have an electronic dash by any chance, and if so, are any other gauges reading incorrectly?Do you have a scan tool that can allow you to monitor the ECM data while the engine is running?When's the last time you replaced the O2 sensor? Should set a code but could give similar symptoms if completely open or shorted and ECM doesn't drop out of closed loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 the dash has analog guages but is likely entirely electronically control, the guages all seem to read correctly with the exception of the voltage guage it seems to read high I have checked the alternator and voltage and it's running right at 14.2 so there doesn't seem to be a problem there. I agee the problem seems to be some sort of a thermal failure, cause after the car sits for a a while 10 to a half hour it will start and run again I will try to MAF tests out It just sucks cuz I hate getting stranded all the time with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Most of advice givers on this forum are really down on recommending shotgunning parts at a problem, but we have the benefit of a fantastic built in diagnostic system in our cars.While the speedo behavior is interesting, I don't think that the ECM is the root of the problem. When they fail, the either remain bad and usually codes and multiple problems show up. When I've had one give intermittant problems, they weren't related to temperature, rather to vibration. I'd hit a bump and things would go wonky, and a rap on the ECM or another bump, and things would be normal again. So I think your issue is with the unholy trinity. (ICM, CPS, MAF)I would recommend you do the tap test on the MAF first. Run the car long enough to warm up and go into closed loop. Then tap lightly on the MAF listening for any stumbling in the idle. If that doesn't yield results, then I think you need to be set to make two checks when the problem reoccurs.Carry a voltmeter with you that you can quickly attach to the fuel pump priming connector (and ground) under the hood and you can place it so you can read it from the driver's seat. When it stalls and you get off the road to a safe spot, pop out and connect the voltmeter, and disconnect the MAF sensor. Then crank away, and see if it starts, and if the voltmeter reads 12+ volts for more than 2 or 3 seconds.If it starts, then shut it off, reconnect the MAF and try to restart it again. May get lucky and prove the MAF is the culprit or it still just remains a suspect.If the voltmeter does not show the 12 volts as long as you're cranking, then the problem is definitely with the ICM or CPS. You have replaced both, but with the lack of quality control and using the lowest bidder to make brand name parts, you can't be assured a new part is a good part.Hope this gives you a way forward you can work with. Wouldn't hurt to have your fuel pressure gauge along for the ride too, but I'm betting it will still show 36 psi. Edited April 29, 2014 by Mc_Reatta (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 ... If the voltmeter does not show the 12 volts as long as you're cranking, then the problem is definitely with the ICM or CPS. You have replaced both, but with the lack of quality control and using the lowest bidder to make brand name parts, you can't be assured a new part is a good part.If I may, I would like to add to that... Disconnect the oil pressure sensor. It's easy to get to on a Reatta. I assume it is on your car. Attempt to crank the engine. If the voltmeter shows 12 volts on the green test connector with the oil pressure sensor disconnected it will prove the CPS is working. Assuming the engine will still not start and you have an assistant with you to crank the engine... immediately check for spark from the spark plugs before things have time to cool down. If you have 12 volts at the green connector with the oil pressure sensor disconnected and no spark, the ICM or associated wiring is almost sure to be the problem with the engine dieing and not starting until it cools down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 thanks MC i'll give the tap test a try. I was looking at symptoms of a bad MAF and a rough idle was one of them. I do have that even tho all the parts are new. As far as the fuel pump priming connector where is this located? which wire will I need to hook my lead on? thanks. Any other thoughts on the 36 psi? I guess it could be the tester It is the parts stores that I use so i guess it could be wrong or off. no way of knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 This will show you: Fuel Pump Prime (Test) Connector Location Connect the black lead of your meter to ground and the red lead to the green test connector. Set the meter to read 12 volts DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Good catch on the oil pressure switch Ronnie. May want to have a glove handy so you can disconnect things on a hot engine, According to the FSM, while the fuel pressure should be 40 psi min with key on engine off, while idling it only needs to be 31 psi. So 36 psi should be plenty to have engine start and idle. Pressure should increase on its own when throttle is pushed and engine vacuum drops causing the pressure regulator to open as yours seems to do. So I don't think fuel supply is the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 so let me get this correct even if I am reitterating it. I disconnect the Oil pressure sender then with the red lead of my multi meter hooked to the priming connector while i crank if i get 12 volts my CPS is not the problem. If i do this but don't have spark when it dies it's likely my ICM. However if I have spark then I should unplug my MAF and if it starts then my MAF is likely the culprit. Thanks it gives me a few places to check. let me know if that all sounds right. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Good catch on the oil pressure switch Ronnie. May want to have a glove handy so you can disconnect things on a hot engine, According to the FSM, while the fuel pressure should be 40 psi min with key on engine off, while idling it only needs to be 31 psi. So 36 psi should be plenty to have engine start and idle. Pressure should increase on its own when throttle is pushed and engine vacuum drops causing the pressure regulator to open as yours seems to do. So I don't think fuel supply is the problem here.great so I shotgunned a fuel pump at it for no reason then. luckily it was cheap with my discount guess i'll toss the old one in a box and keep it around just in case. (it was supposedly recently replaced by the PO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 This will show you: Fuel Pump Prime (Test) Connector Location Connect the black lead of your meter to ground and the red lead to the green test connector. Set the meter to read 12 volts DC.So it appears to be near the radiator burb bottle, which is on the passengers side of my car front of the motor area, I am guessing it's a loose connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Sorry that last post is wrong I looked at the picture more closely that is the washer bottle in the pic and the upper radiator hose which is on the drivers side of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 89 Maui Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Look around the air cleaner box/plenum for the green electrial connector that is not connected to anything. That is the connector to measure for 12 volts/DC for the fuel pump. It sounds odd but Buick made this connector solely for monitoring the fuel pump voltage.Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Sorry that last post is wrong I looked at the picture more closely that is the washer bottle in the pic and the upper radiator hose which is on the drivers side of the car.You got it. That's a strange camera angle at first glance. Just look for that green plastic connector cover hanging lose in the area.I'd unplug the MAF along with the oil sensor too. Why waste the cranking. Attach the black volt meter probe to a ground point (engine block, body metal spot etc) If you don't have an assistant around, you need to figure out how to attach the meter probes and place the meter somewhere while you in the car cranking away. Some type of small alligator clamps or something would come in handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machiner 55 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 If you have a RadioShack nearby you can get extra long test leads.John F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 A six foot length of wire with a male spade connector on one end as shown in the photo is what I use. The connector will plug right into the green connector making it easy to put the meter where you can see it from inside the car. A 12 length of wire with alligator clips on each end comes in handy too.The long wire can also be used to power the fuel pump via the green connector if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 So without the car acting up I won't be able to test any of Thea things correct except the tap test that is. I just want the dang ol gal to quick stranding me when I go to town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Just wire up some lights temporarily for whatever you want to monitor. You could hang two or three on a panel where it could be seen while driving. Wait for a light to flicker of go out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 So without the car acting up I won't be able to test any of Thea things correct except the tap test that is. I just want the dang ol gal to quick stranding me when I go to town.Yes, intermittent problems are no fun. In order to confirm the part is bad, it has to be not working. Can't see the problem if it decides it will work. Kind'a need to turn you back on it and sneak up quiet like and catch it in the act.John's light idea could be used for the fuel pump power connector if that would be better for you than hooking up a voltmeter. Won't work for the MAF though as that's not just an on / off signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 yeah i don't want a bunch of lights and wires running everywhere. I will probably just drive it and get it to act up. with the wife around and have her help me test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 A noid light and an inline spark tester would be handy to have when it shuts down also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Ok so I drove it the 10 miles to work and home today and let it rum in the driveway till it died after trying the tap test on the MAF which is cracked btw. and it died finally so I quickly threw the volt meter on it and disconnected the oil pressure switch as directed. I also disconnected the MAF and cranked away I would get any where from 10.5--11.5 volts when cranking and 12.5-13 when it would try to start. it kinda jumped all over the place disconnecting the maf made it try and start but it wouldn't stay running. thoughts. I am really sick of changing CPS's on the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) If you had 10-12 volts on the green connector while cranking with the oil pressure switch disconnected the CPS had to be working. did you check for spark at the plugs? What you described would make me want to change the MAF next. Edited May 1, 2014 by Ronnie (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The fact the voltage was there as you cranked indicates the ICM and CPS are fine. Fact that MAF is cracked and it seemed to try to run when it was disconnected leads my to think it is the MAF in part if not all of your problem. I'd get another either new or used. If you get a used one, clean the tip with carb cleaner or alcohol carefully before mounting, and don't lose the O-ring seal in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 ok thanks after letting it cool for a while I tried to start it to no avail with the maf disconnected plugged it back in and it fired right back up and ran. I agree that the maf seems to be a likely candidate since I've replaced the other part 2 parts repeatedly with the same results. I'll let you know what I find out with a used maf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 So I changed the maf first with a used one which ran worse on the car so I returned it and went an bought a new one car smoothed out and ran pretty good so I decided id try out got about 30 miles from home and she quit again same as before irrational speedo then no speedo then it dies. Well I got it to my destination and let it sit for a good 3 hours then tried to drive it home well it started out by dying then it would run but chug every time the speedo would try to work when the speedo would come back on id loose all throttle until it zero'd out again. Got about 1/2 mile from home and something came apart on the frontof the motor I'm guessing the balancer since there chunks of rubber that aren't from the belt idk. Also when it quit and I would crank it had a really bad eggy catalytic smell. So my thoughts are vss? It would explain the speed and also why the tranny wouldn't shift when the speedo was zero'd. O2 sensor or plugged cat maybe both? Bad balancer causing faulty CPS signals when it got hot cuz it moved around more. Thoughts advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 It would be helpful if you would add the model of your car, (and any other relative information), to your signature line. It will make it easier for us to answer your questions without having to figure out what you've got every time you post.Click "Settings" in the menu at the top of this page and scroll down to "Edit Signature" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Seems the MAF was part of the problem but may have been overtaken by the harmonic balancer coming apart. If that's the case, it probably took out the CPS again. So that would put you back to square one. Need to confirm the HB is bad, and then replace it and the CPS and the wires too if hey were compromised.The speedometer input to the IPC goes from the VSS to the BCM to the ECM so any of those could cause it to go wrong, but only the ECM would cause the engine to quit running if it went south. So I'm beginning to wonder if the ECM is also contributing to this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest landtortise Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Sorry I feel dumb but what is the IPC and BCM. The car does quit running but I'm guessing that May be due the the HB/CPS if that is my problem the car still ran when the speedo would zero it was when it would come back on the car would surge or I'd loose throttle response till either the car died, I shut it off, or the speedo would zero again. I still had tach reading tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 IPC is the instrument panel cluster.Need to look at the HB and CPS and replace again if they went south. Then we can try to figure out the speedo. May just be a bad connection somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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