questions about 1950 Dodge (Meadowbrook /w fluid-drive)

[Guest Mike00]

Hello everyone, I'm new here. I am considering buying a 1950 Dodge Meadowbrook. This will not be for a show car, or a hot rod, just for a basic everyday (maybe not winter) driver. I plan on keeping this car pretty much original, with the only mod i have in mind being a dual-master brake cylinder. Lots of people tell me im nuts for this, hopefully you guys wont. Anyway, I'm interested in this car because I think it's a beautiful body style, this particular one is solid, and he's only asking $2,000.

anyway, i know these cars were pretty durable as well as decent handling, nice suspension, and that the flat 230 was an extremely reliable engine. I since this has been sitting for awhile (plate says 2004) it will need some work.

he says it runs, but from what ive read, these old flats, if not maintained (like most cars) usually need a valve adjustment, if any valves are burnt, a guy i work with now has told me he has some pretty sophisticated valve grinding setup

i'm not new to working on cars, ive done lots of work mainly on 70's and 80's cars. this is a little different (not like some of the cool 20's and 30's rides some people here have but still different from 70's-80's)

ill check out the carb and the distributor, and the valves and try and find a bushing or bearing (whatever it is) for the water pump, and so on (things on any car). but there are usually some characteristic things to look for on certain cars, and when it comes to these (late 40's early 50's meadowbrook, coronet, wayfarer) i have no idea what to look for. i mean things that should be fixed before they get worse, things that kill drive-ability but may be an easy fix, things that i should look for and possibly consider a different vehicle (or demand a good price reduction) and so on.

where do these "Fluid-Drive" transmissions rate between being dependable and troublesome?

my understanding (although i've read some conflicting info) is that "fluid-drive" is three gears with a clutch as well as a fluid coupler so you don't need to clutch between gears if you let off the gas.

where "gyro-matic" has the same fluid coupler, and clutch, but has a high and low range, each of which automatically shift between two gears. (where high can be used if slow acceleration from a stop is ok)

i understand that the front brakes on these are dual cylinder drums, do they perform notably better than single cylinder drums?

would i be able to get the shoes re-lined at the same place a guy i used to work for in the trucking business sends his shoes off to to get re-lined?

sorry to start off hammering away with questions, im just trying to figure out a lot in a short period of time here, this car is over 100 miles away, and i want to go check it out up close soon, but before i go a want to know some things i should be looking for. thanks for taking the time to read this post, i appreciate it, and i appreciate that this site exists. There's nothing like the old cars!

Edited October 14, 2013 by Mike00 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

If its been parked for ten years I would figure a complete brake job including at least cylinder kits.

Nothing wrong with the fluid drive set ups once you learn to drive them.

Price id fair if it does indeed run.

[Guest Mike00]

thank you for your reply Jack. I definitely plan on doing the brakes all the way around, including the parking brake, which brings another question, i read that the parking brake is on the transmission, can it be used (if necessary) as an emergency brake?

as far as running, it was on the road till around 2004, the guy that has it now has putted around in it around his property, but hasn't got it up to any speed.

a couple things that have got me thinking a bit.

do 230's have valve seats that are replaceable if necessary?, guides?

if not what are the chances, say worst case scenario, there's a burnt exhaust valve or two, in this case, what are the chances that the seat would be beyond repair?

[JACK M]

That parking brake would not stop the car very well, but around the yard maybe.

I cant tell you about valve seats, but these motors are pretty tough. I would try a compression test first thing. I see stories on here of stuck valves often after long storage, but not burnt valves very often.

[Rusty_OToole]

2 things to keep in mind: 6 volt, positive ground. Left hand threads on the left side wheels.(not a hard and fast rule, some cars have had their hubs swapped over the years)

Fluid Drive was one of the first efforts at an automatic transmission. It is very rugged and reliable. Simple and easy to maintain.

It has some characteristics of a manual trans and some of an automatic. It needs a special driving technique. This has been covered a hundred times in the Chrysler and Dodge sections. Do a search for Fluid Drive, there were a couple of long threads in 2008 that cover the whole business, operation and upkeep.

The Fluid Drive unit itself was a primitive torque converter. It was used with 2 different transmissions, a manual shift 3 speed and a manual 4 speed that shifted itself.

Your Dodge may have had either trans. If you look at the right side of the trans, and it looks like a manual trans with 3 electrical gizmos it is the self shifting M6. If it looks like a plain 3 speed that is what it is.

You can also tell with a look under the hood. The M6 model has 2 electric switches built into the carburetor and 2 wires coming off it. The manual shift model has a plain 1 barrel carb.

In any case the trans is simple, reliable, and easy to fix. The special driving technique is also simple and easy to learn.

The 230 came from the factory with hardened valve seats. Valves and seats are not much of a worry. If worn, they can be replaced or ground like any other car. For some reason those motors have a habit of breaking pistons when they get a lot of miles on them. Get the engine running and see how it sounds. Do a compression test and go from there.

If the engine needs work they are very simple to work on. All parts are available cheap. Same engine was used in cars, trucks, military vehicles,tractors and farm machinery, industrial engines and marine engines from 1938 to 1960. Thousands are still in use.

There is a company called Vintage Power Wagons that has all the engine parts, same engine was used in Power Wagon 4WD from WW2 to the sixties. Last time I looked they had NOS pistons @ $75 a set of 6. How good do you want it?

Brakes, spark plugs, fan belts etc can be had from your nearest NAPA store in fact most old time parts stores can get stuff. All they need is a good part number, the parts are in the warehouse.

Parking brake on the trans was made to be used as an emergency brake. Since it is completely independent of the wheel brakes, it continues to work even if you have a major brake failure. Like a good backup system should.

Often they get worn, out of adjustment and soaked in oil from the trans after many years. Will stop the car easily if in good condition.

Brakes are state of the art for their time. Much better built than those of their main rivals. They can be tricky to rebuild and set up but very effective when working right. Unlike the loose leaf brakes featured by other makers, they must be set up and adjusted correctly when you do a brake job so the shoes make full contact with the drums. This is the "major adjustment". Once that is done all you have to do is a simple "minor adjustment" once a year or less, to take up wear.

[Guest Mike00]

Thanks again for the replys.

I'm feeling a lot better about this, now that I know parts are readily available and pretty cheap. (Vintage Power Wagons' site is great)

I hope the thing about "habit of breaking pistons" applies mostly to people who over-rev and/or over-build the top end on these motors.

or were there certain years where they were a little weak? if its real common throughout, vintage power wagons does indeed sell oem piston sets for $75 but also sell heavy-duty pistons for $155. since it's an issue at all, i would go with the heavy dutys for an extra $80 if i rebuild it, but should i as a precaution?

if the engine is in decent (not like new but okay) shape, is it likely that this will happen (piston breaking?)

I don't really plan on taking this motor much past 3000, maybe 3500rpm.

good to know that the brakes are decent when set up properly, my initial thoughts were to convert to a dual master which sounds like it would be pretty difficult and expensive to do a quality job on. good to know that once adjusted properly, I'll have an emergency brake.

Thanks for the input so far, i think ill have fun making this car right again.

[Guest Mike00]

Thanks Jack, Thanks Rusty

is there anything about this type of car, that is really problematic? (or could be really problematic)

anything that comes to mind that i should really look for when i go to check it out? when i drive it?

i really like this car and i'm probably going to buy it, i know it will take some work and upkeep, i just hope there are no really bad surprises.

[JACK M]

Hey Mike00, do I know you from another forum and some Saturday nights near Portland?

If not then you use the same name as a friend of mine.

As for your Dodge, these are indeed very well built cars and are easy to work on compared to what they are making today.

[Taylormade]

Like any old car you have to keep on top of things, but these old Mopars are very solid, dependable cars that are generally easy to work on. Check for front floor rot as the cowl vents often leak over the years and water collects under the front rubber mat and tends to promote rust in these areas. Get a shop manual - I have one if you're interested. It is very complete and well illustrated and will take you through any repairs you may need to make. I've had a 48 Plymouth and a 50 Dodge Wayfarer, and both were excellent cars. They aren't great on the freeway as 60 is about the top end for most, but you can install an overdrive if highway driving is your forte. On back roads they drive great, with a smooth ride and super cushy seats. The only thing that always seems to be a pain is getting the rear brake drums off if you need to work on the brakes. Plenty of posts here on how to do it, but that is one pain in the neck in my opinion.

[Guest Mike00]

thank you, I will definitely need to get a manual, just too many details on a car i'm too unfamiliar with (as of now)

thank you for pointing out the floor pans, when i last talked to the current owner, he did tell me that the front floor was rough and should be redone. I see floor pans at about $50 each for this car at rockauto, maybe cheaper elsewhere. since the floor must have been taking on water, most likely from what you said about the cowl vents leaking, since the floorpans are rotted, are there other areas likely affected? (where water could fall from there and sit)

also, how hard is the fix for the leaking cowl vents?

Jack, I don't believe we have met. I have never been to Portland.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Mike00
added info (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Just happens to be the same name, rather uncommon.

Hes a good guy too. LOL

You should make a deal on Taylormades manual.

There has been some conversation on the forum recently about buying the cheapest floor pans.

[Rusty_OToole]

Chrysler corporation was known for their engineering back then, as GM was known for styling and Ford for performance.

Every part of a Chrysler built car looks like it cost more money than the same part on competitive makes. I don't know of any specific weak points other than those already mentioned. If you can stand the somewhat doggy performance (at least by today's standards) and the looks don't scare you there is not much wrong.

Most annoyances come from being over built. Brakes for example, are more complicated and harder to work on than the cheap loose leaf affairs found on other makes. They also stop better, last longer and are more reliable IF they are assembled and adjusted by the book.

But most things are very simple and easy to service especially compared to late model cars.

[Joe Cocuzza]

Replace the cowl vent gasket - should stop the leaking.

Check the trunk and especially the spare tire well - where the spare tire sits. These had a tendency to rot out, too.

As stated before check the floors and, also, because you said they are rotted out, check the body mounting brackets on the frame.

If these are shot you will need to have either replacements made or find good used ones.

One other spot these liked to rot out was the outer lip of the trunk pan - this is about 1" wide and it runs along the top of the rear bumper splash/stone deflector.

You can see it if the trunk lid is closed or opened.

[Guest Mike00]

Thank you all once again for your replies.

these vehicles of this era seem to be engineered quite well indeed.

I will most definitely check the body mount area closely, as well as the trunk pan before buying this car.

im assuming to get the front brakes right i should get another drum of the same size (dodge or other) and cut the face off (so i can see how the shoes contact the drum) then set it. - would this be a good way to go about it?

@ Jack - i searched, but i couldn't find any threads about cheap floor pans. could you post a link?

@ Taylormade - is this an electronic or hardcopy manual? if hardcopy, how much would you want for it?

by the way, i like these (thought id share)

for the average consumer -

for the mechanically curious -

Edited October 21, 2013 by Mike00 (see edit history)

[Taylormade]

I sent you a PM on the Shop Manual.

[JACK M]

http://forums.aaca.org/f143/36-dodge-repro-body-parts-358949.html

[Guest Mike00]

okay so now i have my eyes on a different car i might buy, its a 1950 coronet! (big change up)

are the "gyromatic" transmissions as reliable as the three speeds?