Build Card Data question

[stakeside]

I have some questions on my build card for my 1930 Dodge model DA-120 truck?

1) what is the order number? Is the sequence for that year only?

2) Model noted as B-120. Why no reference to DA-120 model?

[30DodgePanel]

I have some questions on my build card for my 1930 Dodge model DA-120 truck?

1) what is the order number? Is the sequence for that year only?

2) Model noted as B-120. Why no reference to DA-120 model?

I've been wondering the same thing since I seen the info you have shared in the past, starting with your toe plate.

My guess is that the B indicates something to do with the chassis or the body designation. Very curious to know the answers to your questions as well..

[Guest 1930]

Dodge Graham earlier on had a policy of not shoving more vehicles down a dealers throats than they could handle, they had a certain level of ethics/sales practice. ( unlike today )

This policy I am sure diminished rapidly during the mid twenties but to what degree ( assuming I am correct ) I do not know.

Similar to today though there were different levels of dealers within network, some dealers were allowed bigger discounts across the board. ( meaning parts, freight, possibly larger vehicle discounts ect ) A dealer that sold a certain high level of vehicles would receive bonus point in the way of these discounts ect, not flooding dealers with more stock than they could handle promoted good will across the board. Factory even offered assistance to dealers that for one reason or another could not move their stock in the way of setting up special storage areas at discounted rates or transferring vehicles from one dealer to another.

By the time your vehicle was manufactured I am sure that alot of the niceties were no longer avail but I have nothing specific to say what was still in place at this particular moment in time.

Regardless I believe that still this late vehicles were ordered from dealers from the factories and the order number which I cannot read would have been the tracking number for that specific vehicle made by the dealer. I am sure that there was always extreme pressure from Dodge Main to push vehicles.

After Chrysler takeover it would appear ( from what I have concluded ) that factories were really trying to get away from custom jobs but they were still available. Everything had to be tracked for warranty, sales ect purposes.

I see what looks like a 7 as the last digit, maybe if you could magnify the first digit you will see an S showing that the truck build card that was only to be manufactured/made up/printed at Detroit was designated for the Stockton CA plant.

I would have to look into the B designation, not sure what that is all about at this point.

[Guest 1930]

I cannot read the card as is, I would like to know who the dealer was, looks like a J S something or J E.

I would like to know what the remarks states, I see Fisk tires, ( same manuf. used by auto ) cab No ....is that S 115, indicating a Stockton build as well I would assume. I see the key code but cannot make out the preceding letters. Cannot read the wheels or much else with your scan. Thanks for any info

Edited May 11, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

I cannot read the card as is, I would like to know who the dealer was, looks like a J S something or J E.

I would like to know what the remarks states, I see Fisk tires, ( same manuf. used by auto ) cab No ....is that S 115, indicating a Stockton build as well I would assume. I see the key code but cannot make out the preceding letters. Cannot read the wheels or much else with your scan. Thanks for any info

Thanks for information provided.

I have a Tread in the Dodge Truck Section. Here is a summary of my discoveries:

1) Model shown as B-120 on card and I have Owners Booklet for a E-DA model. I remember seeing a reference to "B" code truck in an article in the Dodge Brothers Club book on Dodge trucks. Maybe these are the same models.

2) Card list shows wood spoke 21" rims and 5.25x21 Fisk tires. The truck was found in wrecking yard with 20" iron spoke rims

3) Was surprised to find it was built as a screenside. Truck found with flatbed and a rough cab.

4) What is "Order Number" noted as " S2007"?

5) I believe the rear axle ratio noted as 5.1 to 1. Is this the standard ratio of the DA 6 truck?

I guess a lot of things can happen to a truck after it leaves the dealership in San Francisco. Maybe the wood spokes are replaced with the iron spokes at the dealer for instance..

I have the dealer as J E French Dodge of San Francisco.

[Guest 1930]

I could be wrong but the more I think about it the more I seem to think the B was a body model # designating that particular make-up of body being designated for a specific vocation. This stands true for the mid to later twenties Dodge/Graham trucks. B preceding the chassis model # for instance ( in 1926 ) designated that particular body model as a model specifically set up/geared for launderers, cleaners and dryer special.

By the time your truck was built this may have all changed and more study would have to be put into this to solidify anything.

Do you have a different opinion or possible viewpoint? Please post what you are referencing in line 1 above.

Edited May 12, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Thanks for information provided.

I have a Tread in the Dodge Truck Section. Here is a summary of my discoveries:

1) Model shown as B-120 on card and I have Owners Booklet for a E-DA model. I remember seeing a reference to "B" code truck in an article in the Dodge Brothers Club book on Dodge trucks. Maybe these are the same models.

2) Card list shows wood spoke 21" rims and 5.25x21 Fisk tires. The truck was found in wrecking yard with 20" iron spoke rims

3) Was surprised to find it was built as a screenside. Truck found with flatbed and a rough cab.

4) What is "Order Number" noted as " S2007"?

5) I believe the rear axle ratio noted as 5.1 to 1. Is this the standard ratio of the DA 6 truck?

I guess a lot of things can happen to a truck after it leaves the dealership in San Francisco. Maybe the wood spokes are replaced with the iron spokes at the dealer for instance..

I have the dealer as J E French Dodge of San Francisco.

It is doubtfull that dealer changed wheel combination, most likely done at a later date because of pure neccesity ( wood wheels gone bad ) or for the extra hauling capability the iron wheel would have given.

Screensides were a poor idea from the start, I am not surprised that these were eradicated somewhere along the line

I will try and remember to check the rear axle ratio and confirm that

I think I have one of their buisness cards, I will try and remember to look

[stakeside]

I could be wrong but the more I think about it the more I seem to think the B was a body model # designating that particular make-up of body being designated for a specific vocation. This stands true for the mid to later twenties Dodge/Graham trucks. B preceding the chassis model # for instance ( in 1926 ) designated that particular body model as a model specifically set up/geared for launderers, cleaners and dryer special.

By the time your truck was built this may have all changed and more study would have to be put into this to solidify anything.

Do you have a different opinion or possible viewpoint? Please post what you are referencing in line 1 above.

My reference is to a publication of the "Dodge Brothers Club News" article dated Feb/Mar 01 titled "when things got confusing" by J Bittence. The page is 23.

The article gives a code 1-B for the DA-120 and DA-124. The article also states the code of DA-1-B may also be used.

"Very Interesting "

[Guest DodgeKCL]

It may be a 'spelling' mistake by whom ever wrote up the ticket. My '35 KCL's body designation is 'B-1-0'. I'm not sure if the B relates to the year or not. But the 1 seems to mean a basic flat faced cowl and chassis. The 0 means no body OR possibly IT means flat faced cowl and chassis and the 1 is just the 1st body type in the set for the year 'B'? The next body type in '35 was B-2-0 meaning windshield cowl and chassis. Dodge supplied the windsheild and A post and about 6" of the roof above the windshield. These got made into depot hacks/station wagons. The next body type was B-2-2 meaning cab and chassis. This had the front doors and seats as well as about 5' of the roof. Today a cube van is made from a B-2-2 if Dodge were still using this designation system. The next type was a B-2-3 designating a panel van. Know today as a 'humpback'. The last type was B-2-4 and that was a canopy and possibly a screenside. The 1st letter B changed over the years but the system was still in use in '39 when all the above designations were proceeded by the letter M,as in M-1-0 etc., even though the truck model was TC/TD.

Edited May 12, 2013 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[stakeside]

It may be a 'spelling' mistake by whom ever wrote up the ticket. My '35 KCL's body designation is 'B-1-0'. I'm not sure if the B relates to the year or not. But the 1 seems to mean a basic flat faced cowl and chassis. The 0 means no body OR possibly IT means flat faced cowl and chassis and the 1 is just the 1st body type in the set for the year 'B'? The next body type in '35 was B-2-0 meaning windshield cowl and chassis. Dodge supplied the windsheild and A post and about 6" of the roof above the windshield. These got made into depot hacks/station wagons. The next body type was B-2-2 meaning cab and chassis. This had the front doors and seats as well as about 5' of the roof. Today a cube van is made from a B-2-2 if Dodge were still using this designation system. The next type was a B-2-3 designating a panel van. Know today as a 'humpback'. The last type was B-2-4 and that was a canopy and possibly a screenside. The 1st letter B changed over the years but the system was still in use in '39 when all the above designations were proceeded by the letter M even though the truck model was TC/TD.

My card does say "SCREEN" in the remarks portion. Believe this to mean SCREENSIDE. I do know it is a 3/4 ton, 120" WB, with the DA 6.

Not sure the code for later trucks apply here. I refer back to my previous thread and the article in the "Dodge Club News" mentioned.

[30DodgePanel]

My reference is to a publication of the "Dodge Brothers Club News" article dated Feb/Mar 01 titled "when things got confusing" by J Bittence. The page is 23.

The article gives a code 1-B for the DA-120 and DA-124. The article also states the code of DA-1-B may also be used.

"Very Interesting "

I hope I'm not off base here but I wonder if we could revisit the engineering code topic.

We've all seen this photo showing the engineering code and wheel bases.

Can anyone explain how to describe the coding for the engineering codes ? I realize this has been discussed many times but I have yet to understand it.

Edited May 13, 2013 by 30DodgePanel
spelling error (see edit history)

[Guest DodgeKCL]

If you take a school bus for instance,the model code is 883,which appears to have no particular meaning per se. The engineering code appears to set the body style as a '1' which would be a flat faced cowl and chassis with the number 5 designating either the body Dodge put on,which I doubt, or fittings that were installed on the frame etc. so a school bus body could be installed by an outside custom body builder(more likely). The 140 is the wheelbase in inches,which appears to be the shorter of the group, and then they stretched them out. A thing I have found out over the years is we may be missing a complete line of vehicles in our history of the car industry. I'm not sure where,size wise, Dodge started calling their vehicles 'trucks' but a lot of what we are calling trucks and vans were called 'Commercial Cars'. And not just by Dodge. I have magazines from the 30s with graphs in them with a line for automobile sales and a line for 'Commercial Car' sales! Just about all the ads in these old mags call delivery trucks and vans Commercial Cars. I have an ad that I believe someone put on one of these sites,I know it didn't come from one of my mags. It shows an ad for a New York dealership that is having a sale on Commercial Cars. Everything from flat faced cowls and chassis to screensides. All are called Commercial Cars several times in the ad. I just wanted to put that out there for those who believe they have a 'truck'. You may have what the industry considered a car modified for commercial use.

Edited May 12, 2013 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

Here is a poor picture of the dealership that sold your truck as it stood in 1927 or so Sherman. Have you looked into whether the building still stands? Any info you can find would be interesting.

[Guest 1930]

If you take a school bus for instance,the model code is 883,which appears to have no particular meaning per se. The engineering code appears to set the body style as a '1' which would be a flat faced cowl and chassis with the number 5 designating either the body Dodge put on,which I doubt, or fittings that were installed on the frame etc. so a school bus body could be installed by an outside custom body builder(more likely). The 140 is the wheelbase in inches,which appears to be the shorter of the group, and then they stretched them out. A thing I have found out over the years is we may be missing a complete line of vehicles in our history of the car industry. I'm not sure where,size wise, Dodge started calling their vehicles 'trucks' but a lot of what we are calling trucks and vans were called 'Commercial Cars'. And not just by Dodge. I have magazines from the 30s with graphs in them with a line for automobile sales and a line for 'Commercial Car' sales! Just about all the ads in these old mags call delivery trucks and vans Commercial Cars. I have an ad that I believe someone put on one of these sites,I know it didn't come from one of my mags. It shows an ad for a New York dealership that is having a sale on Commercial Cars. Everything from flat faced cowls and chassis to screensides. All are called Commercial Cars several times in the ad. I just wanted to put that out there for those who believe they have a 'truck'. You may have what the industry considered a car modified for commercial use.

There must be somewhere a master listing of model codes, you can find them sporadically throughout Dodge/Graham literature but I have yet to see any comprehensive list of current model codes to date and prior. Still searching for that list though.

It was a way of the manufacturer keeping track of all avail. bodies/options as a different way of putting it.

I have alot of school bus literature up until about 31/32 and from the beginning Dodge did not make these bodies but were instead farmed out to various companies so you are correct.

Edited May 13, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Here is a poor picture of the dealership that sold your truck as it stood in 1927 or so Sherman. Have you looked into whether the building still stands? Any info you can find would be interesting.

I started a tread in the "General Discussion" area of this forum http://forums.aaca.org/f169/dodge-dealers-san-francisco-ca-350499.html. The building looks quite different than the one you sent. The address I had from 1937 SF Directory was on corner of Van Ness and Washington. Looks like that building exists today.

Do you have an address for the location in your picture? The dealership may have moved.

[30DodgePanel]

Sherman, are you sure ?,

according to Google maps the lower floor is very similar to the pic Jason posted. More floors have been added but it looks to be the same building SW corner of Van Ness and Washington "Academy of Arts" building in San Fran

Academy of Art University: Academy of Art University: The San Francisco Based Art School

Sherman

Maybe try and contact the County Assessor or someone that could help track the history of the building ? Worth a shot, you never know what goodies you'll stumble on..

Edited May 13, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Maybe this will help:

Pulled it from the San Fran county assessors website stating that this parcel was indeed JE French Auto Showroom 4 story building

http://ec2-50-17-237-182.compute-1.amazonaws.com/docs/DPRForms/0618001.pdf

WOW, ,, one hell of a read...

Edited May 13, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Here is a poor picture of the dealership that sold your truck as it stood in 1927 or so Sherman. Have you looked into whether the building still stands? Any info you can find would be interesting.

Could this be the one story building described on page 10 of this link ? Described as "910 Polk St JE French sold Dodge Brothers autos from this one story location from 1922-1936 . Building has been demolished"

http://ec2-50-17-237-182.compute-1.amazonaws.com/docs/DPRForms/0618001.pdf

[ply33]

Maybe this will help:

Pulled it from the San Fran county assessors website stating that this parcel was indeed JE French Auto Showroom 4 story building

http://ec2-50-17-237-182.compute-1.amazonaws.com/docs/DPRForms/0618001.pdf

WOW, ,, one hell of a read...

Amazing amount of work some bureaucrat put into that document! From the sound of it a Dodge sold by JE French in 1930 would have been sold out of the earlier location at 910 Polk Street.

[30DodgePanel]

Amazing amount of work some bureaucrat put into that document! From the sound of it a Dodge sold by JE French in 1930 would have been sold out of the earlier location at 910 Polk Street.

That is alot of work, one of the few times we can thank bureaucracy I suppose...(if thats even possible).

May be a stretch but the street light on the NW corner of Polk and O'farrell St looks like a match to the photo Jason provided too.

[Guest 1930]

I started a tread in the "General Discussion" area of this forum http://forums.aaca.org/f169/dodge-dealers-san-francisco-ca-350499.html. The building looks quite different than the one you sent. The address I had from 1937 SF Directory was on corner of Van Ness and Washington. Looks like that building exists today.

Do you have an address for the location in your picture? The dealership may have moved.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]192957[/ATTACH]

I am sure I have it but will need to find it. That picture was taken late 1926/early 27. It was found within a Graham truck booklet I have identifying major dealerships across the country.

Thanks for posting the add, I very rarely visit any other forum on this site and would not have seen it otherwise.

[Guest 1930]

Could this be the one story building described on page 10 of this link ? Described as "910 Polk St JE French sold Dodge Brothers autos from this one story location from 1922-1936 . Building has been demolished"

http://ec2-50-17-237-182.compute-1.amazonaws.com/docs/DPRForms/0618001.pdf

This sounds more like it, Polk Street rings a bell. Either way very good detective work

[Guest 1930]

Amazing amount of work some bureaucrat put into that document! From the sound of it a Dodge sold by JE French in 1930 would have been sold out of the earlier location at 910 Polk Street.

That document is riddled with in-accuracies but I do appreciate the effort that was put into it regardless

[Guest 1930]

That is alot of work, one of the few times we can thank bureaucracy I suppose...(if thats even possible).

May be a stretch but the street light on the NW corner of Polk and O'farrell St looks like a match to the photo Jason provided too.

I pretty sure its Polk street, I am trying to think of where I can confirm that though still.

[stakeside]

I pretty sure its Polk street, I am trying to think of where I can confirm that though still.

WOW! Lots of information to ponder here.

KUDOS to you all for your research.

[30DodgePanel]

Hello Guys,

This might be of some help to you all, it was scanned from a 1930 Pacific Automobile Show program that was held February 1st thru the 8th at the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco.

Hi Dave,

would love to see more of that program if you wouldn't mind please. Thanks for posting !

[30DodgePanel]

I understand Dave,..

I was just interested in the cover more than anything. Sounds like a very interesting piece of history.

[30DodgePanel]

2) Model noted as B-120. Why no reference to DA-120 model?

I was just told from the archives that the "B" signified 3/4 ton.

C would have been 1 ton,

D stood for 1 1/2 ton and so on...

[30DodgePanel]

Thank you Sir for taking the time, you never know when something like that will lend other clues and help others that need it. Great piece of automobile history- thanks for sharing.

[Guest 1930]

I was just told from the archives that the "B" signified 3/4 ton.

C would have been 1 ton,

D stood for 1 1/2 ton and so on...

They must have given you something in print I would assume, I would like to see where they came up with that. What literature that was printed within I mean.

[Guest 1930]

Hello Guys,

This might be of some help to you all, it was scanned from a 1930 Pacific Automobile Show program that was held February 1st thru the 8th at the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco.

There is the Polk Street address

[stakeside]

There is the Polk Street address

The program states as O'Farrell and Polk.

[30DodgePanel]

They must have given you something in print I would assume, I would like to see where they came up with that. What literature that was printed within I mean.

I doubt it... it sounded like Bruce just recalled from his decades of being around Dodge trucks (just from memory). Sounded pretty emphatic about it and very sure of himself and repeated it over and over "B was for 3/4 ton, C was for 1ton,,, YEP, YEP, I'm positive that's what it means".

I can try and find out if he can locate it in print somewhere for verification if needed but I don't want to wear out my welcome with him, he's been very helpful over the past year and I'd like to keep a good relationship with him.

[30DodgePanel]

Has anyone ever came across this address for J.E. French before ?

1920s Dodge Dealership-J.E. French Co.

The address on the building is 1040 but when you pull up the PDF file from the county assessors it's not showing a 1040 address listing. Sorry if I'm getting off base here Sherman but I was just curious. Could this be a portion of the 910 Polk building ?

Edited May 16, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[stakeside]

Has anyone ever came across this address for J.E. French before ?

1920s Dodge Dealership-J.E. French Co.

The address on the building is 1040 but when you pull up the PDF file from the county assessors it's not showing a 1040 address listing. Sorry if I'm getting off base here Sherman but I was just curious. Could this be a portion of the 910 Polk building ?

This is a portion of the SF Assessor's summary of dealers.

1915-1922: 1200 Van Ness Avenue. H. O. Harrison occupied the south half of this, the largest auto showroom in San Francisco when it was built, and received the first shipment of Dodge Brothers autos sold in San Francisco in early 1915. He expanded to occupy the entire building in 1921, only to lose the Dodge agency in 1922. This building has been completely altered.

1922-1936: 910 Polk Street. Dodge Brothers autos were sold here by the J. E. French Company. This one- story building covered a large area and was built for French’s occupancy. It has been demolished.

1937-1960: 1835-1849 Van Ness Avenue (the building being evaluated here). Dodge and Plymouth autos were sold here by the J. E. French Company. Integrity is good.

1961-1964+: 1699 Van Ness Avenue. First the J. E. French Company (briefly) and then Van Ness Dodge sold Dodge autos here. Integrity is high.

As one can see, 1835-1849 Van Ness is the only building still standing with good integrity where Dodge and Plymouth autos were sold before the 1960s. Not listed above is the ten-story office building at 540- 548 Market Street, where J. E. French was district manager (wholesale) for Dodge Brothers before he opened a retail showroom.

Not sure what is at 910 Polk presently.

There is no mention of 1040 building in the above summary.

Compare photos. The arch features are the same. Could be same building with different street address.

[countrytravler]

Bump