Pete K. Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Well, who would of thought that a TWO CENT cotter pin could ruin your whole day? Recently I got my 1925 Dodge Brothers touring car running. Rebuilt fuel system from stem to stern. This has the original carburetor, a Dodge Brothers, Detroit Lubricator, Stewart Carb, Series B-264. As I was in driver's seat while engine was running, I revved the engine slightly by stepping on the accelerator pedal, testing things out. All of a sudden, the engine roared and the accelerator pedal did not come back up. I immediately turned off the ignition switch, shutting her down. After inspecting all the linkages, I came across the problem. It was the little Cotter pin that secures the throttle linkage to the carburetor bell crank at top.(see photo's). I had not bent the "LEGS" of the pin ALL THE WAY AROUND to meet the head of the Cotter pin, thus, a "leg" caught on the idle adjustment clamp screw and kept the throttle almost wide open. With needle nose pliers, I re-shaped the Cotter pin, as in the pictures and now it's fine. If I put the pin in the other way, it wouldn't have caught. This was an INTERMITTENT problem that arose, Glad I was in my own yard when it happened.---Pete. Edited September 17, 2012 by Pete K. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Would a flat washer between the cotter key and the brass colored arm piece help the situation by keeping the cotter key flat through the hole? The washer would HAVE to be sure to clear the idle adjustment clamp screw though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete K. Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 No, I don't think so, I'm even betting there wasn't one there originally. The problem was that the partially splayed leg of the Cotter pin WAS level when it slipped on by the screw, then caught the screw when she was coming back to idle position, holding the accelerator open. Like I said before, IF only I had inserted the pin through the hole, the other way, the head of the pin would not reach the screw and all would be dandy. I do hope owners of these type cars using this set-up check this situation--it could be deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brian j Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have had a few incidences of accidental WOT over the years, and they seem to always catch you in a relaxed moment......and then sweat pops out of your forehead, and your heart races. And if you are a quick thinker like Pete you get'er shut down before it takes you on an unplanned jaunt. Having experienced it, i can appreciate his quick action. Way to go, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 What you guys call cotter pins, we Brits call split pins. We call a cotter pin what you know as the cotter. I have no idea how this anomaly came about but I thought it worth mentioning before continuing in your parlance. I had a similar situatuon which could have ended in disaster when I omitted to splay the legs on a cotter pin which retained a vital part of a cable brake mechanism. It was only by chance that I noticed my mistake. I had intended to finish the job properly but was distracted by someone and forgot about it. I have a memory problem anyway but this particular slip up made me wonder just how safe I am in charge of such things. Brian, you describe the symptoms perfectly.Anno Domini, I expect.Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm glad you had the presence of mind to quickly shut r' down Pete! I will take a look at that tomorrow. So you got it running then... Did you drive it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete K. Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Mike, Glad you posted here. Finally got this Dodge running since I found it last April 25th. I've been searching your older posts on your '25 Dodge and I noticed that you once asked why your engine only runs with the choke out. Well, NOW, I'm in the same boat. What the heck am I missing here? The only thing leading me to the problem is the carb, which I had to completely take apart to clean and put new gaskets in it. I thought I put it back the same way it came apart but now I'm doubting it. I can't find too much technical info about the set up of this carb anywhere, although I don't see the problem with my rebuild either! Did you ever rectify this problem we're both experiencing?? I haven't driven the car yet, no room to drive it without getting it out on the street & it's not registered yet.------ Getting back to my original thread, I happened to see the drawing of the carb in the '25 B.of I. and it shows the Cotter pin in question here going through the control rod the same way I had installed it! Could it be I'm the ONLY ONE in 87 years this impending disaster could have happened to? I guess we'll never know. Ray, don't feel too bad about that one "split pin'. You DID catch it in time. Sort of reminds me of an old movie that I saw 40 years ago, whereas a 10 cent cup of coffee brought down an entire commercial passenger plane,(the hard way). It was titled, "Fate Is The Hunter" Anyone remember this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Sorry, Pete I don't know the movie. What I do know is that my memory and concentration span have been adversley affected by carbon dioxide poisoning as a result of the previous owner of my house leaving the gas fire in a dangerous condition. Memory loss is one of the symptoms. It could have been much worse. At 57, my Doctor says I now have a short term memory and concentration span of a 75+ year old. It can be very frustrating at times.Your engine will only run on choke? have you ever had this with any other 'twenties car? If it's not the carb or timing the only thing I can think of is that without a thermostat, the engine would take a long time to warm up. I have a spare carb which I can stip down and investigate. Perhaps you have missed something but I can't think what. My car runs rich (even without the choke) until it has warmed up and then it's fine. Ray. Edited September 19, 2012 by R.White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayG Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Pete - I had the same problem when I recently rebuilt my carb. The problem is when you remove the choke lever there is no keyway to reference how to put it back on in the same position. This affects the air mixture. What I did was to remove the lever and start the car. Let it warm up then adjust the air by turning the shaft that the lever attaches to until it runs smooth. Then adjust the air mixture screw on the lever to about mid way in and put the lever back on the shaft with the adjusting screw just touching the base. This will leave you enough room to adjust the mixture later. It worked for me. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I agree with Jay that the problem is probably due to something in the choke (mixture control) set up. This can happen if the mixture pinion gear is meshed at a different location on the needle gear rack (than it originally was) or, if you removed the pinion shaft lever, it may be in a different position now. I would also check to make absolutely sure that the air valve floats without restriction. I did have to fiddle with the pivot arm position as I recall. I can take some closeup pictures of how I have mine set if you like Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I used the procedure here to set it up. Stewart Carburetors reference book from 1927 especially for Dodge restorers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete K. Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Ray, this carb is so much different than any other carb I've ever worked on. Mike, I'll check again on the air valve floating OK. It WAS when I re-built it. The air mixture screw was not turned down enough to half way as Jay said. Thank you ALL guys for steering me in the right direction! I do have an un-tampered with, orig. carb here in my parts collection to compare that rack & pinion deal. Otherwise, the engine runs fine, warms up to just under the horizontal center line on the Moto-Meter. My little stand-pipe filter I installed in the bottom of the vacuum tank seems to be working great, since I only did my best here to get the fuel tank cleaned out, betting there is still SOME residue of rust dust in the tank that I just couldn't get at or see. The fuel in my carb is as clean as when I put it in the tank. The original ignition coil is at least allowing the engine to start & run. Don't know how it will be under strain, (power). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Good to hear Pete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 What a smart idea, Pete. Installing the filter inside the vacuum tank is definitely on my agenda now! Good to hear the engine is running O.K. Jay and Mike, I see what you are getting at about no key way or any other fixed point for the lever on the shaft. My mechanics' instruction manual also says to do this and also that it is very important to have the spark lever retarded half way.Mention is also made of "casing head gasoline" being particularly volatile. As I have never heared of this before, could anyone explain what it meant please? Sounds a bit like our present day 'ethanol' petrol.Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Good question Ray. I've never heard that term before either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Quote..........[h=1]Casing head gas:[/h] It is defined as the gas that is associated and dissolved gas produced along with the crude oil from oil completions. The casing head gas is usually taken off at a gas/oil separator. If the well produces sufficient casing head gas, it may be economical to collect this gas for sale, instead of emitting it. Casing head gas varies widely in production rate, pressure, and composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Thanks for that, Jason. Isn't it funny how we have been using the net for information for years now but still forget to Google (if that's where the answer came from) things we don't know. I guess it's in our nature to want to discuss things amongst ourselves. One thing I doubt can be established (without experimentation), is if modern petrol has similar characteristics to casing head gas.The manual goes on to say that if very volatile fuel is used it is hard to obtain the proper carburettor adjustment. "The engine will not idle properly as gas vapour passes through vacuum line and enters manifold. This condition is most noticeable at idling speeds, as at low engine speeds the vacuum in the intake manifold is at it's highest. A very small hole drilled in the vacuum line nipple which is attached to the carburettor will sometimes remedy this trouble."Worth a try if all else fails? Edited September 19, 2012 by R.White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Yes it was google and its good to post any and all questions because many of us do not know the answer and it gives us the opportunity to learn something new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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