Painting my own car?

[Guest buckfarmer]

Has anyone tried painting there own car? I am thinking about doing my own, but am not sure what set of steps to follow (eg. sandblast, blocksand, filler, more block sanding, etc.) Any suggested procedures from start to finish would really be helpful.

I am planning to use an epoxy primer, but am wondering if I need to use glazing putty over the all metal filler I have used before I prime. Then I am not sure what to do next. Do I need to use a primer surfacer over the epoxy primer or can I sand and prep the epoxy for paint. Any thoughts would be really helpful.

Neil

[Buicknutty]

I have painted a few cars myself, most recently my '41 Buick Coupe. I would suggest buying a good book on the subject and give it a careful read.

There are a number of things to consider, the work space first, you will need a good garage to work in, clean and well lit, with lots of space around the car. A two car garage with your car in the middle works well, but the main thing is that you need to be able to get the doors open, and have space to move around it. A detacted one for sure, as paints are VERY smelly!

A good high capacity air compressor is a must, check the air output specs against the usage of the spray gun and any other air tools you may need. I've found that the HP rating on compressors is sometimes misleading, often they find ways to make the unit look bigger than it really is.

As to paint, try to use a single manufacturers complete paint system, ie. primer, high build, and finish coats. Epoxy primer is a good way to go, or you can use an etching primer for bare metal. I've used an epoxy primer, as it primes and seals, as I can't always get back to do the next stage for a week or so, and standard primers are porous.

For my latest project, I used prime, high build primer, colour prime, then base and clear coat. I used 5-6 coats of clear so that I could wet sand and buff out any imperfections, like minor runs or dust. Using a spray gun properly is a skill that takes some practice to master, use something other than your car to learn on!

Modern paints are more toxic than ever before, so personal protection is important, use proper breathing apparatus, gloves etc., plus ventilation is needed.

There's also neighbors to be concerned about, depends where you live, of course, but folks seem to much more evironmently concious these days. If you live outside of an urban area, with no close neighbors, no worries.

Hope I haven't scared you off, but if you can do this, you can give your car a fabulous paint job for a fraction of the price of the professional shops.

This is by no means complete list of requirements, as there are many prep steps, etc. that I haven't touched on.

Best of luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Keith

Edited March 18, 2012 by Buicknutty (see edit history)

[Guest buckfarmer]

Thanks Keith,

The shop is no problem, I am a Dairy farmer with a large 40' x 40' heated shop dedicated to the car (at least for a couple more months before I will have no choice but to let other projects back in). I have no nieghbours for miles, large 18 cfm air compressor, I will need to work out something for ventilation but believe I have everything I need here on the farm to put together ventilation with filtered air.I have all the safety equipment needed. Just hung up on the steps and products to use. A book is a really great idea that I hadn't thought of.

Neil

Edited March 18, 2012 by buckfarmer (see edit history)

[bobj49f2]

First and most important, a good respirator. You do not want to spray any time of paint, especially any two part paint without a good respirator. When I first started doing body work I worked in a small shop, no paint booth, we shot paint out in the shop. The first paint job my boss took of his respirator so I followed. This was a Saturday morning, by early evening I was coughing up blood and could only breath while standing in a hot steamy shower. It was not pleasant and a learned a lesson.

Basic steps for body work, at least the way I do it.

Dismantle parts, clean and blast if needed. Be very careful if you plan to blast sheet metal. The media can warp the sheet metal fairly easy if you don't keep moving. It's a combination of the little particles hammering the metal and the heat generated from the friction. Areas of sheet metal with bends or ridges or lips are the safest, the large open areas like doors and hoods and roofs will warp fairly easy.

Another very important thing to consider when blasting, just like when painting, good ventilation and a good respiration system. There are a lot of warnings about using regular play sand, search Silicosis. I feel as long as you don't do sand blasting on a regular basis and use good protection you don't have much to worry about. There are other medias, do a search for "blasting media". Very dry sand is the cheapest way to go. You can't have any moisture in any kind of media or it's going to clog the blasting system.

After you're done blasting you have to get the metal covered as soon as possible. I'd wipe the parts down with a wax and grease remover, I use lacquer thinner. Any kind of chemical is going to be nasty stuff so wear chemical proof gloves and a lot of clean rags. I throw chemical soaked rags on the floor, spread out, not in a pile and let them dry over night before disposing of them. Then apply a good quality epoxy primer, giving everything at least two coats. Don't worry about runs, primer sands easy once dried thoroughly.

For doing body work it's best to do your dent removal and metal patch welding first, then clean up th areas with a grinder, blow off and then apply another couple coats of epoxy primer over the repair areas. If you're happy with your repairs you should apply plastic filler over the epoxy primers. In the old days we'd do all the body work and then prime but the new epoxy primers have a better bite than just plain filler. Also, if the epoxy has be sitting for over 24 hours you'll have to break up the surface with a scuff pad, the type that look like stiff foam, like what you use to scrub dirty pans.

After you're sure your body work is as straight as possible apply another coat of epoxy primer, wait and then apply a few coats of high build primer and once dry spray a light coat of contrasting primer over the top. You can use cheap spray can primer for this. This is where the fun starts, take a sanding block, I like to use 180 grit paper for the first couple of times, and start block sanding. The contrasting primer will show you the high and low spots in the body. When you break through the epoxy primer, and you will, spray a couple of more coats and then follow with the high fill primer and the contrasting primer. You'll probably have to do this 3-4, or more, until you have a perfectly straight panel.

Don't try to check your work with your finger tips, you won't be able to detect the slight waves and dips in the panel. Use you whole hand, palm and fingers laid as flat as possible and run it back and forth. It also helps if you either place a clean rag between your hand and panel or wear a clean clothe glove.

Not the paint, apply one more coat of fill primer and sand with a fine sand paper, like 320 or 480. Ask your paint store what they recommend for their paint product. Go over the entire car and parts and make sure you have everything sanded with the finer sand paper.

You have to decide what kind of paint you're going to spray, I prefer a 2 part acrylic urethane, it's not cheap but it will last a long time. If you do get imperfections in the paint you have to wet sand and buff in a short period of time or it becomes very difficult. I personally would never paint a car in lacquer, it's the easiest paint to use but it doesn't last under the sun, it will craze, it's old technology. Talk to your paint store, they should be able to set you up with the right products for what you're doing and your budget.

Whether you paint the car in pieces or together is up to you. I like to have as much of the car together as possible when I paint them. Many people like painting individual pieces and then assemble them. I don't, I don't like to take a chance of scratching fenders and doors as I'm putting them together. I try to paint the mating surfaces first, let them dry and then bolt them together. You'll have over spray on the panels but you can knock down the over spray with either fine sandpaper or a scuff pad. I like the scuff pads. Some will tell you that you can lift the paint when spraying over the over spayed paint but I've never had a problem with that.

I've painted my fair share of cars and trucks, I painted a few old cars including my '49 Ford pickup and I followed the procedures I outlined above but I can see my '37 Special is going to give me challenges I never had to contend with before. Namely the front fenders and hood have a lot more hills and valleys to paint so when the time comes I think I'm going to paint the fenders off of the car, both front and back. I will probably edge the doors in and hang them before paint the entire car. Like with my old Ford truck, I am going to paint the car in sections. I'll paint the doors and trunk first, mask them off and then spray the rest of the body.

I hope I was able to help, you don't have to do it this way, other will probably disagree or at least add to my description. You just have to use common sense and do it the best way for you.

BTW, I also live on a dairy farm and have paint a few cars in the pole building. The pole building I painted in is a building we store our farm equipment in so it's not the cleanest place but I try to blow it out and wet down the floor before spraying the paint. The new 2 part paints dry pretty fast so dirt and bugs isn't as bad of a problem as it was 30 years ago with the slower drying paints.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

We painted ours outside! Spies Hecker flat base with clearcoat.

Be careful setting the ventilation system up. The fumes are extremely flammable. You need a special fan motor that doesn't generate sparks.

Cheers

Grant

[Buicknutty]

Neil;

Sounds like you're off to a good start by having a good a space to work in. What is the car you want to do? Good advice in the post following mine.

I found the local paint shop was quite good in dispensing advice about how to use their paints, as I had to learn all about the new paints. Much more complicated and way more expensive than it was when I first did this!

Keith

[bobj49f2]

One of the first cars I painted I did in my parent's garage when I was about 18. It was a two and half car garage and it was it was either late fall or early spring, the outside temperature was around 40-50°. I used a kerosene fired torpedo heater to warm the garage up, turned off the heater, sprayed the car, waited 5-10 minutes and opened the overhead door to vent the fumes. Closed the door and fired up the heater again. I did this at least four times. I look back and I'm amazed I didn't blow the garage, and myself, sky high.

In big pole building out in the middle of no where you don't really need a ventilation system if you have a breeze going. Just leave the doors open and the breeze will pull the fumes out. Just be careful, even if the building looks clear of vapors don't go in without a respirator on. Also, the compressor motor is a good source for ignition so you have to be concerned about that and figure out if the vapor will accumulate in the are surrounding the compressor. I painted a couple of cars, two pickups and last year I painted two colors on a TMR , that one is for Buckfarmer, in the pole building without a problem. The building is big enough and the air was going through.

The biggest danger I encountered was the other people on the farm. As I was spraying I'd hear a noise and some one would be rummaging around in the building, near where I was spraying the two part paint. I had to chase some one out a couple of time. They think if they don't breath a lot of the vapors in it won't hurt them. You have to remember that the hardeners used are basically Super Glue, you don't want that in your lungs.

[NTX5467]

One aspect which has not been mentioned is "dust control". It sounds like your work/spray area is pretty open and breezy, which might require a close-door situation while painting. Still, though, dust can become dislodged from many unsuspecting places and land in the still-soft paint.

If you've not done a full repaint or much body work, you might consider enrolling in a night class at your local college or high school for "auto body". A few of my friends have done that and learned how to do things they didn't know how to do previously, or learned to do them better. In one case, my friend went to the salvage yard and bought a used hood to learn to paint on. Also, there's a program called "Muscle Car" that's a part of the "Powerblock" series on weekend cable tv, that's also available online at PowerBlock TV. MANY good points about how to do body work on there!!!

Good luck!

NTX5467

[Guest buckfarmer]

Thanks everyone

This REALLY helps, I feel MUCH more comfortable with my plans now. I will be painting a 1930 model 64 roadster.

Bob, I also painted a TMR self propelled machine I made a couple years ago, just used tremclad though.

[bobj49f2]

I should have mentioned my qualifications in my first post on this subject. I've been working on cars since I was a little kid helping my father repair cars, he was a mechanic most of his life. I started doing amateur body work when I was a teenager, more than 30 years ago. I worked in the auto body field for 5-6 years and then changed to a totally different line of work that I still use the skills I learned working on cars, it's just not my main activity. I still do all my own body work and paint on my own vehicles. I would gage my skills as between an amateur and a professional. I have not been in the auto body business for 20 years so I am not up on the latest and greatest techniques and materials. I do try to keep up by talking to people in the auto body industry and visiting numerous discussions boards. I just wanted to get this out there so you can make a judgment as to whether to follow my suggestions or not. There are other opinions out there that will be better than mine. I try to offer suggestions and advice from the point of view of a DIYer, a person without the latest and greatest of tools and skills.

#1 rule in painting automobiles, prep work is 99.9% of a good paint job. Your body work has to be perfect to get a perfect paint job. Paint will not hide much and may also highlight imperfections. Also, if you don't use the proper materials under the paint it may show up later.

Painting a car is probably the hardest part of doing body work. I've painted cars in almost any kind of environment, paint booths and pole buildings. Dirt is always a concern from both the surrounding environment and the car itself. Painting a modern car can be a big challenge to a first timer, painting a car with all the curves, hills and valleys our old Buicks have can be a challenge for an experienced painter. Practice is a very good idea.

For the buildings I try my best to blow everything off and out of the building. I do it a few times. Wetting the floor door is a must because you're going to stir up dust while walking around the car and dragging the air hose. I have also found that it's best to paint in the late afternoon before night fall. Especially on a farm, bugs are always a big problem. They don't seem as active in the late afternoon as they are earlier in the day or later in the night. Nothing will tick you off like having a fly landing on fresh paint and then trying to walk away across the panel.

For the car I use a full blast of air to blow off the car and every seam and opening in the car. My theory for using the full blast of air is if whatever you have on the car, paint, primer, body work or masking tape can handle a full blast of air it should be able to handle the 30-40 pounds of air pressure from the paint gun. There is an amazing amount of dirt and dust that will accumulate in body seams and openings that will blow out when you least expect it. Also, hit the car with the air from different angles and to it a few times. An even more irritating thing is to have a piece of loose paint or tape fly off a car while painting. After you're sure you have everything blown off and out wipe the entire car down with grease and wax remover, make sure you use a product specifically for this, if you paint thinner or laquer thinner you can really mess up all the work you've done. After the grease and wax remover wife the car down with a tack rag, do it a couple of times.

The urethanes set up and dry pretty fast. I started painting cars using acrylic enamels. This type of paint we'd spray kind of on the dry side and they would dry slow enough that they'd settle down to a smooth finish but they tended to run pretty easy too. The last couple of cars I've sprayed I use acrylic urethanes. I found you have to spray them the way you want the paint to look when dry. You have to spray them to look wet because they'll dry the way they looked when you spray them.

One other piece of advice I have that I've found helps a lot when spraying paint. Don't worry just paint. I've found if I concentrate too much while painting, trying not to get runs, that's when I have the most runs. If you see a slight run leave it be, you'd be amazed how much the paint will settle and the run will disappear, or at least flow out to look a lot less worse than it did when it first appeared. Just make sure you allow the paint to dry between coats, "flash time". You want it almost dry but just a little tacky. Not wet enough to leave paint on your finger but tacky enough to feel a little tackiness. I test the paint on a piece of masking tape or paper.

[bobj49f2]

Buckfarmer, I used Valspar paint with hardener on the TMR, painted the frame red and the body yellow. It was a fun project, yeah right. My son is the farmer and I had him take it to someone to have it blasted and epoxy primed. I painted the frame first, masked it off and then painted the body. It was a lot of fun crawling around under and over the beast to get to all the areas. So far it's been almost a year and with constant daily usage the Valspar paint is holding up quite well. I am thinking of painting one of my trucks with it. It's cheap, just over $150 for all the paint materials. I'm sure when it comes time to paint my Buick I'll be dishing out well over $500-600 for the paint alone.

BTW, where are you located? Just curious.

[Matt Harwood]

Welcome To Autobodystore.com

Excellent helpful staff, a well-used message board of experts and amateurs alike, and materials that will help you get the job done right.

[Guest buckfarmer]

Thanks again for all the advice.

"When you break through the epoxy primer, and you will, spray a couple of more coats and then follow with the high fill primer and the contrasting primer"

Bob,

Just to be clear after sanding and breaking through the epoxy primer it is Ok to apply the epoxy over the high build primer in the areas where I did not break through while sanding?

Also I am located in British Columbia, Canada

[Grandpa]

I would like to add - - -

Let the finished primer sit for several weeks before painting the color coat, otherwise sanding marks may reappear in the color coat a few months after painting.

Grandpa

[bobj49f2]

Buckfarmer, you can apply the epoxy primer right over the top of your high fill primer. After you are happy with your body work you should seal the entire car with epoxy primer, trying to get if a run free coat. Rememer your top coat will only look as good as your last coat of primer. The other thing to remember is to ask your paint supplier how all this paint components work together. Some products aren't totally compatible and may raise the material under them.

Grandpa, with epoxy primer you don't have to wait to cover, in fact it's best to top coat as soon as it is thoroughly dried, read the can and it will tell you. If it's allow to dry more than 24 hours you'll have to scuff down and blow and tack it down again before painting.

Back when I first started working in a body shop we'd spray only lacquer based high fill primer. It would dry fast because the lacquer thinner was the main thinner and would evaporate very quickly. Many, most times, we'd do our body work, mix a thick primer to get a high build fast, wait an hour and block sand. We'd then paint right over the primed panel, or entire car. As far as I can remember we never had a problem with show through. Later, as products got better lacquer thinner based primers became to be looked down on and I doubt many pros use them any more. Most use the 2 part epoxy primer and then use the 2 part catalyzed high fill primers to block and then seal again with epoxy primer. In the last shop I worked in we'd epoxy prime and top coat within the same day. Never had a problem.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

Can't stress enough the importance of compatibility when it comes to your paints!

Cheers

Grant

[Guest buckfarmer]

Thanks again

This is all excellent stuff. I picked up some high fill primer yesterday ( a 2 part catalyzed type). I did not however ask about compatiblity. I will phone today and check.

What are some thoughts on single stage vs. two stage paints. I was planning to use a single stage system, but thought I might get some opinions here.

Neil

[bobj49f2]

I've only painted one car with a base coat/clear coat system. The car was my wife's and it had the base color and three different color stripes on the bottom. I painted all the colors in one day and cleared it the next day. If I used a one stage paint it would have taken four days to apply that many colors. This was my only personal experience spraying this type of paint but the one draw back I can think of is blending in repairs, it's kind of hard if you don't have experience. My neighbor had his Model A painted with a base coat/ clear coat paint. He had multiple colors applied including the red pin stripe and then the entire car was clear coated. Then the car was wet sanded and buffed so you can hardly feel the different levels of paint. It looks really nice but not original to a Model A. Base coat/clear coat paints are suppose to hold up better than most single stage paint.

With singe stage paint repairs are easier to blend but with our old vehicles there are so many seams and edges that it's not that hard to paint complete panels. I personally like the single stage if only spraying one color. I also figure that any paint now is 10 times better than any paint they used 50-70 years ago. I think you can use a paint that is too good in appearance on an old car. I personally don't like a fully restored car with a super shiny paint, to me it just doesn't look correct.

[Guest buckfarmer]

I've done a bit more reading and I have another question. Rust Convertors, should I be using one. My panels all are good on the outside, however the inside of most of the panels still has some scale that I couldn't remove with the sand blaster. I thought that the epoxy primer would seal the panels and I wouldn't have to worry about a little scale underneath because it would be completely sealed. Any thougts?

[bobj49f2]

There are many people pro and con on rust converters and rust encapsulators. Rust converters are suppose to convert the rust to another type of metal, I'm not sure what they call it. Encapsulators seal out the oxygen from the rust to prevent any further rust.

Both of these products state in their instruction that they only work on solid, non flaky or scaly rust. If you're going to use one of these products you have to remove the scale. If you can't get to it I suppose you could use the products but make sure you're able to coat all sides of the scale and hope it works.

I've used rust the converter Extend on the rear fenders of my '49 Ford F-2 fenders almost 20 years ago because the fenders were so pitted that I knew if I blasted them they would turn out like Swiss Cheese. It's been almost twenty years and the fenders still look good with no hint of rust coming through. I have also used POR-15 rust encapsulator and it's a good product but expensive and if you get it on your skin you'll be wearing it for about two weeks. There are other products like POR-15 that are less expensive and I've read they work just as good. The other brands can be painted directly over, POR-15 you can't, you have to use additional POR-15 products to make it work.

[Guest Grant Magrath]

POR 15 would be my choice, and since they're on the inside, no problems. POR prefers rusted metal as opposed to shiney clean stuff.

Cheers

Grant

[bobj49f2]

POR-15 does like rust or blasted metal, something with a "tooth", it won't stick to clean new metal or metal that have been cleaned with a sanding or grinding disc.