27 Buick 2dr sedan - got it running today

[rj27buick]

Bought a 1927 Buick 2dr sedan in decent shape needs restoration but solid and motor will run with some coaxing. Can anyone tell me what the value of this car might be restored I fell in love with body style but as I begin to do things light a downdraft carb mod I keep running into people who say I am killing the value by not keeping it original. The value to me is to be a driver I didn't think in the end it would be a priceless type car and i want to drive it not show it. One person said this body style is very rare (he also tried to sell me the Brooklyn bridge!!!). Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks

Edited January 28, 2012 by rj27buick
Got the car running today (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Look at the plate on the passenger side of the engine firewall, let us know the numbers for the model. Should read 27-XX. We can then proceed from there. Describe the car to us, interior, exterior, etc and provide some pics. The range for these mid 20s Buicks range from about $6,000 to $13,000 for a driver depending on condition etc. Fully restored cars can go for around $20,000 or more.

My cars run great on their original Marvel carbs and Steward Warner fuel vacuum pumps. They just have to be cleaned to work properly. And they are very simple to work on. Fun actually.

[rj27buick]

Interior is out - but I have the front seats and they are in good shape. All wood in frame is exposed and very solid - no rot anywhere. In on of the pics you can see the wood-web for the roof - very good condition. The body is solid but needs to be redone. Engine is clean and as I said I am considering downdraft conversion vs. rebuild of the Marvel only because of the threads that talk about improved performance.

[ROD W]

It looks like a model 20 two door coach (27-20) This is the standard model Buick on the 114" wheel base chassis. It was the third most popular Buick in 1927 with 33,190 being built for domestic sales and 870 for export. Looks like a very straight original car, sure you will have fun restoring this car. Marvel carby,s are a very simple carb to work on, but if you want to change it to a down draught it is simple to change it back to the original for selling. There are a number of other threads on this forum in regard to the conversion.

Rod

PS.there,s a 27 reference book for sale in the buy/sell section. always good to have

Edited January 12, 2012 by ROD W (see edit history)

[rj27buick]

Rod thanks for the info -

Yes the car is very straight and solid. The only rust is in the rear there was a nasty squirel nest under the back seat - held the moisture in and created a rust line in the back under the window. Other than that - very solid. With only 33,000 made I will keep the car as original as possible - but want to turn it into a daily driver - at least in the nice weather here in NY.

[Mark Shaw]

One more time....?

Marvel Carburetors

One of the most condemned and abused components in Buicks from the teens to the early thirties is the infamous Marvel Carburetor. Many Buick owners have plugged their exhaust heat systems and either replaced their original Marvel Carburetor with a Zenith, Carter BB1, or some other updraft carburetor. Some just gave up and flipped their intake manifold to install a more fuel efficient downdraft carburetor to improve both performance and mileage in their cars.

I still run original Marvel Carburetor in most of my Buicks. I use full choke from a cold start & usually need to keep the choke out 1/3 to 1/2 until the engine warms up. This seems to be normal for Buicks with or without working exhaust heat systems. Mileage & performance is not as good as downdraft carburetors, but I believe that keeping these old girls going with their original equipment is part of the pleasure in driving and maintaining these old cars.

The older they are the more simple they are... If you have Marvel carb issues, first give it a good cleaning and check the cork float. Replace it if needed and set the fuel level just below the top of the lower jet. Make sure the air spring (inside the big adjustment knob) has a bulge in the middle or verify that it is original. If it is a straight spring, it may be the wrong spring. Set the big knob even with the tang and open the bottom fuel screw about 1 1/2 turns to start. It should start and idle with these settings....

The most common cause of Marvel Carburetor problems seems to be the need to replace the 70-80 year old cork float. I know that many prewar Buick owners struggle to get their Marvel Carburetors to work properly with these old dried up cork floats. It would be rare for such old cork floats to work reliably, so they must be either be replaced or coated to prevent saturation.

The purpose of the float is not just to start and stop fuel flow to the engine; it also continuously maintains the correct fuel level at the jets. The jets are carefully sized to atomize fuel to supply the correct volume of fuel & air to the engine at all operating speeds. If the air control knob is not properly adjusted or the fuel level is too high or too low, the jets will either starve or flood the engine. Sound familiar?

I have several old books and manuals that troubleshoot and/or explain the various designs and theories of how all kinds carburetors work. I also have Harold Sharon’s book “Understanding Your Brass Car” that explains how any do-it-yourself amateur can replace the cork in an updraft carburetor to drastically improve performance. Harold explains in simple terms how you can use “Crazy Glue” & wine corks to make a replacement cork float to fit in almost any carburetor. He also states that coating the cork is not necessary. I expect that gasoline additives & ethanol in modern gasoline would probably dissolve any of the old recommended shellac coatings and gum up everything anyway. But, I know that model airplane dope or Crazy Glue can be used to seal cork floats.

Another potential problem with Marvel Carburetors is with the brass jets that sometimes develop small cracks. Plug one end of the jet with your finger and suck or blow to determine if there are cracks. These cracks can easily be soldered to solve the problem. Just run a drill bit with the same inside diameter through the jet after soldering to make sure excess solder does not restrict flow.

The ultimate alternative is to flip the intake manifold and bolt on a Rochester carburetor from a "Stovebolt Six" GM engine. There are several models of this carburetor with and without automatic choke. My son is considering doing this on his 29 Buick. If you keep all the original parts, this modification can easily be reversed if you or the next owner prefers to show the car.

__________________

Mark Shaw

BCA PWD Director

[rj27buick]

Mark - thanks I did see your writeup on another thread - but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. As I said I am new to this age and type of car - but having fun.

[rj27buick]

OK - decided to try the down draft solution. Removed the updraft shaft, the horizontal heat tube and of course with all of that the "Marvel-ous" carburetor. Flipped the intake manifold as the "pros" suggest - and low and behold I have am ready to purchase a carb and fuel pump! Still need to close-up the two exhaust ports left from this. Many have sugeested single barrel from a stove-bolt six - does anyone have a model number for this rochester carb? Thanks again to all those providing input - the owners manual would never have suggested this!

Edited January 15, 2012 by rj27buick (see edit history)

[Guest outlaw car man]

Mark - thanks I did see your writeup on another thread - but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. As I said I am new to this age and type of car - but having fun.

Bottom line you are having fun and this isn't like buying a house. I have the 33 Marvel, a different animal. I'd flip it, but keep the parts. I attempt to keep them running original as much as possible.

Stay on the group here, loads of good info.

You can't ask dummer questions then I HAAHA.

Sandy

OCM

[FLYER15015]

Sandy,

Oh yes I can (ask dummer questions). Check my threads.

You and Mark should be the "go to" guys for Marvel questions for rj27, but it seems like he's going the "flip" route. Stromberg 97's are going for upwards of $80.00 now, since the old Ford flatheads have come back in style.

Mike in Colorado

[rj27buick]

Ok now I will show my ignorance - just purchased a Rochester 1 barrel carb and a 6 volt fuel pump. Looks like the carb base is close enough that it should work fine on the intake manifold. Now for the dumb question - the carb has two connections fuel line ( that one I understand) but the second at the base next to the idler screw is for vacuum i think? For those of you that have gone down this road what should I do here? Plug it or connect vacuum line originally used to run the fuel pump? Or something else.

Sorry this is all new for me so this may be a real dumb question but that is why I joined this forum. Thanks in advance.

[FLYER15015]

rj27,

Don't know much about these "older" cars, but if your distributor has a vacuum advance, the lower port on the carb should be for that. Usually a 1/8" copper line.

Mike

[rj27buick]

It runs!

Thanks to all of the people above who gave advice. If flipped the manifold, installed a rochester 1 barrel, 6 volt pump and a regulator. Turned on the ignition, hit the starter button on the floor and wamo she purred like a kitten!

I really appreciate the help. Now I need to go back and make some of the temporary connections look more real.

I took video and will try to up load later.

Edited January 28, 2012 by rj27buick (see edit history)

[Dwight Romberger]

Congratulations RJ!

I am looking forward to the video.

Dwight

[rj27buick]

Thanks - the video my daughter took is too large. Need to down sample -

[humber349]

Well done RJ.

Your success will encourage owners like me who are still working towards the day the engine fires.

I am also planning on fitting a downdraught carb and 6 volt pump.

[rj27buick]

Thanks

While it isn't original the downdraft seems to work fine. I just finished installing a very simple setup for the linkage. So now the gas pedal controls the carb. Now that I have that I am going to hide the 6 volt fuel pump inside an old vacuum fuel pump (I have an extra one that the insides are rusted out) so it will appear as though the gas line still feeds through the old canister. Then on to clean out of the gas tank.