30# Canister of R-12

[bepnewt]

A guy wants to sell me a 30# canister of R-12, and another 30# canister that is about 2/3 empty.

When I pick up the full 30# canister, it sloshes around. The other one does, too, just not as much. I believe Freon should be a liquid under pressure.

[pause]

Ok, I just checked and freon is liquid under pressure at room temp.

Before I buy it, I just want to make sure that it should feel like there's water or some other liquid in there. Can you guys confirm, please?

That's my first inquiry. The second is "How do I check if it's really freon and not filled with something else?"

Thanks, folks.

-BEPNewt

[DAVES89]

Why do you want a30 pound container? Are you going into business?

I have 15 cans in my basement, which is enough for 5 full charges. Owned my cars for about 4 years each, still haven't put one can in.

[bepnewt]

Why do you want a30 pound container? Are you going into business?

I have 15 cans in my basement, which is enough for 5 full charges. Owned my cars for about 4 years each, still haven't put one can in.

My A/C currently is empty - the previous owner evacuated it. I believe the Rivs take 3.5lbs of R-12 ( as opposed to the other big Buicks at 4lbs ). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read that in the Chassis Service Manual.

The average sale price around here for a 12oz can of R-12 is between $15 and $25. I've been watching the prices for a while and no one is selling any lower. I'd need to get 4.6 cans, or 5 cans rounded up at a minimum total price of $75. If I can find 14oz cans at the same price, then I'd just need 4.

But, I'm getting about 40# for $100 from this guy. I'm sure I'll be able to trade what I don't use for my A/C to my mechanic for labor. I know that he wants some so it should work out in the end.

-BEPNewt

[JZRIV]

Typically an empty 30lb can weighs around 6 lbs give or take a pound. Using that you can determine about how much R12 you will be getting by weighing the containers and subtracting that amount.

You are correct, there could be anything in the container and/or even a different type of refrigerant recovered from something else. A simple test to see if at least it looks like refrigerant would be, with the container upright crack the valve open and see if a vapor comes out. When you shake the can, if feels like water but it will come out as vapor/gas if the valve is upright or a liquid if the can is inverted. Keep in mind this test alone doesn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. If you could borrow a refrigerant leak tester or "sniffer" at least you would knows it refrigerant at a minimum.

Access the integrity and character of the seller and assume the risk based on that. An option would be if you were able a competant HVAC service provider may have an analyzer to test for type of refrigerant.

The price alone is a red flag unless the seller just fell off the proverbial turnip truck or woke up from a 20 year coma.

Do the math - assuming best case $15 per 12oz. 40lb = 640oz divided by 12 is 53 x $15. Thats $800 worth of refrigerant......for $100. Try to figure out why he would he sell so cheap.

That would be the deal of a month if its legit and whether you need it or not isn't relavant for that price.

Edited November 10, 2011 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[bepnewt]

I had the same reservations you mentioned, Jason. It seemed too low, for sure.

I took it to the local auto A/C place and they put it on a tester. Both canisters tested out as R-12.

It seems like I scored. Now, I just need to leverage what I don't need for stuff I do!

My STV rebuild kit ( O-Rings and Diaphragm ) arrived yesterday so I'm going to try to find time to do it this weekend. I plan on following the instructions here:

STV

It looks like the process will be the same for mine. I don't plan on doing it ON the car, though. The A/C guys today double-warned me about the spring so I won't be careless when I disassemble it.

-BEPNewt

[steelman]

My dad is a retired refrigeration mechanic and had some R12 in his shop. When I walked into my mechanic's shop with a 30# drum, he asked me "What did you do, rob a bank?":D

[Jim Cannon]

R-12 is not selling for that much $$$ any more. You got a good deal but not crazy cheap. There is little demand for it any more, so supply and demand says the price is lower. Some people put single cans on eBay at very high prices because "someone told them it was $65/can" but they dont sell. You can buy all you want for a reasonable price. Your $3/lb was a deal for sure, but not that nusual. that's what I bought my last bulk can for.

[bepnewt]

R-12 is not selling for that much $$$ any more.

I think you nailed (yuk yuk) it, Jim. "Selling" is probably the key word. I've seen a lot for sale at big prices for the last 6 months, but that doesn't mean people are actually buying it, eh?

I've never seen it reasonable semi-locally (Tulsa, OKC, Stillwater, Fayettenam) since I've been looking. Even the other people selling large quantities are selling 20# for $300. I was already on the path of switching to 134a when I finally found this.

I'm just hoping that getting the actual mechanical parts all working isn't a huge money sink. I'm not going resto at all with this 'Riv so even if I get cold air with no control I'll be happy.

The chance of us making it to Monterey aren't high. Making it in the 'Riv are even lower, with that percent chance being ZERO if I don't have A/C and a working stereo. Kit, my wife, doesn't mind going if we can, but those are 2 lines already drawn in the sand. Luckily, her company is worth every penny it will take to get the car up to par!

-BEPNewt

[Guest Rob J]

Chances are if it's too cheap, its a hot canister.

[JZRIV]

A search of completed ebay auctions indicates its regularly selling for anywhere from $12-$20 for a 12 -14 oz can and an average of $11-$15 for anything over 20lb in a 30lb can and these folks are paying shipping on top of that.

I checked my local craigslist and am seeing "advertised" prices in same range.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. I'd sure like to find some for the prices you guys are seeing. Besides using it myself it'd be easy money flipping it.

Brian,

Having the A/C working will be worth it. As long as you have a competant shop who can accurately access the issues, and insure there are no leaks, the cost shouldn't be too bad. IMO even if it costs $1000 its worth it. You already saved a ton by finding the killer deal on the R12.

Having A/C on these old cars makes them so much more enjoyable to drive as well as increasing value. I always liked driving my 67 around with the windows up on a hot days watching others with cars 30+ years newer suffering with their windows down.