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Thanks...that's the show boat I referred to earlier in the thread. I drive it....wish I could drive it more.

My buddys have 67 and 68 notch's. Love that body style as well. Matter of fact he 68 notch was mine and I sold it to him. Slant 6 old lady car with 67K.

Wish I had it back.

To much else to do and to few nice days....gatta drive what I have.

They are nice cars aren't they? Always loved the 2nd gen bodies...Italian inspired lines......

Mop

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  • 1 month later...

Mop

have picked up another project

Found this girl 29U Ply tourer on ebay she is located in Bendigo Victoria about 2.5 hours from where I live - she had been in storage for 40 years and he just rolled it out and wanted to sell it - the good thing is she has come from a dry climate - dont have any numbers yet will have them on pickup - also I know the medallion on dash is missing (bummer!) - The bloke I bought it of said he thinks it came from Adeliade but lost a lot of information back in the Ash Wednesday fires (1983).

Anyway another 29U project

Wayne

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Hi fellas, is it too late to join in the fun? I have just joined and am still working out how to do this. I have myself a 1936 dodge roadster ute. I was given it a few years ago, in pieces and a few photos of it the day it was pulled apart to be stored under the old mates house. I have done some home work and found the info changes depending who you talk to. It too was built by tj richards and seems like a mixed bag, and would seem to be quite a rare beast. After being stashed away for a few years in my possession i have just started trying to put it all back together. Does anyone know where to find the chassis number and can any one help with the other numbers on the vehicle. It has a number on the A pillar( stamped in the wood, i think it may be the number tjr put there.). The numbers on the two tags on the firewall dont seem to match up to normal records either. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Edited by 36 roadster ute
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Lets see some pictures.

Can't help with numbers...mine has none! I looked all over but so far no luck.

Seems that the numbers must have been on tags that either rusted off or were pulled off by previous owners.

Nozzle are you still working on the ute?

Here's what I've been doing while I look for parts for my roadster....I'm getting closer to moving to paint. Once this car is back on the road I can finally start on my roadster!!!! :D

I'm hoping for a summer start.

Mop

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Great looking barracuda, looks like you are scraping the unerneath with a putty knife? Man what alot of work. That frame rail looks not so bad. I surely wouldnt cut it out of there just for that little rust, ruin all this factory welds, no waay.

B- Bodies are notorious for getting it all the way back, I have never owned and A-body that I can remember,,,, I take that back I have owned a couple of darts, great cars.

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Can only hope so.i can only find this pic at the moment, will post others when i find them

Looks like a '37 Dodge 1/2 ton pick-up grille and grille shell - Domestic anyway. The center vertical section is the same piece as a '36 Dodge car. The horizontal side bars are specific to the '37 Dodge pick-up.

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Great looking barracuda, looks like you are scraping the unerneath with a putty knife? Man what alot of work. That frame rail looks not so bad. I surely wouldnt cut it out of there just for that little rust, ruin all this factory welds, no waay.

B- Bodies are notorious for getting it all the way back, I have never owned and A-body that I can remember,,,, I take that back I have owned a couple of darts, great cars.

Yep...putty knife and a blow torch...man what a job. The frame is softer that it looks...I haven't shown what I found after the grinding.

I decided that I'm going to cap the bad areas rather than cutting them out. I will retain the initial structural integrity and reenforce the bad areas.

At least that's the plan.

Mop

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Thanks manuel, i took some pics today as best i could. Firstly, the numbers on the pillar are: 1830-1646, on the body tag the serial number is: 8824139. And the model number is: FE-1-10. The small tag below is: H-1-0-LR 1727. Any help with what all this means would be great.

I once measured the length of the doors on a roadster and the doors i have and they were the same. So i did wonder if it was originaly a roadster and cut down to fill the customer of the days order? Or was it an open touring body? Or was it a cowl and chassis unit with a sheet metal order? Its a weird one, hope the numbers tell the story.

The pics are of the tags on the firewall, grill and dash. That is a 36 dash isnt it? And the grill is a 36-37 commercial , right? If this is so then what year is the othe grill i have? Because it sure isnt a 38, and not quite the same as other 37's. So is it a 38 commercial? The hood that was on the vehicle this grill came from is exactly the same as the 36. Any thoughts?

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Thanks manuel, i took some pics today as best i could. Firstly, the numbers on the pillar are: 1830-1646, on the body tag the serial number is: 8824139. And the model number is: FE-1-10. The small tag below is: H-1-0-LR 1727. Any help with what all this means would be great.

I once measured the length of the doors on a roadster and the doors i have and they were the same. So i did wonder if it was originaly a roadster and cut down to fill the customer of the days order? Or was it an open touring body? Or was it a cowl and chassis unit with a sheet metal order? Its a weird one, hope the numbers tell the story.

The pics are of the tags on the firewall, grill and dash. That is a 36 dash isnt it? And the grill is a 36-37 commercial , right? If this is so then what year is the othe grill i have? Because it sure isnt a 38, and not quite the same as other 37's. So is it a 38 commercial? The hood that was on the vehicle this grill came from is exactly the same as the 36. Any thoughts?

Model FE-1 is a 1937 Fargo Truck, half ton, 116" wheelbase. Engineering code is T-39.

Serial numbers for export Fargo Truck FE-1, built in Detroit, started at 8824001 and ended 8824950. Total of 950 built.

8824139 - 139th 1937 FE-1 built in Detroit.

The numbers on the lower tag are for the body.

Bill

Toronto, ON

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I had a hunch it may be a Fargo when I saw the FE model no.

Fargos were a Chry export line of commercials & trucks that were sold in Canada and Oz and lots of other countries.

They had a slightly different grill and badges but that was about all.

Manuel in Oz

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Couple of notes on the DM 4. It is a Plymouth PB with a Dodge nose built at the Detroit Plymouth plant on Lynch Road. The engine, naturally, is a PB 4 cylinder. A total of 1,173 were built, all for export outside of North America, and of that 235 were chassis-cowl units.

Chassis serial numbers started at 9905001 and ended at 9906173. The beginning "9" has been a source of confusion as all Canadian Chrysler cars started with "9". However, export-only Dodge models (DE, DI and DM) as well as Evansville-built 1937 D5 models also start with "9".

The DM was the first "Plodge" - Plymouth-based Dodge.

For parts, the 1928-1933 Plymouth Master Parts Book will have the PB parts, but the 1914-1933 Dodge Master Parts book has the DM parts. Having both will help determine which parts are unique to the DM and which are shared with the PB.

Bill

Toronto, ON

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Hey thanks a lot fellas, finally i know what ive been hoarding all these years. I must admit i feel a little deflated to hear its a fargo! I have come across fargo's before and seen the similarities, but nearly every panel was different. The only parts that looked the same were the fenders, running boards and pickup cab. And they were always rustier than the ones i already had.

Is Australia the only country that had these open bodies? I have attached a pic of a tourer i have seen a few times in Brisbane. From the B pillar forward its exactly the same as mine. Which is why i thought some thing like this could have been the basis of what i have. The B pillar on mine even looks to have a champhor on the back edge that seems to match a possible rear door just like on the tourer in the pictures. Im yet to measure the length of the front doors on the tourer to see if they are the same as a roadster, so we'll see. post-83338-143138852832_thumb.jpg

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It is probably a TJR body. I believe they would build whatever the customer wanted. Local body builders made open cars long after other countries had stopped making them. Just as regular production vehicles rather than super one off customs.

Manuel in Oz

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Yes, roadster and touring models for Chrysler products were gone in North America by 1934.

For Dodge and Fargo trucks, the big difference was the hood ornament and the nameplates. Thus the bodies and sheet metal were the same.

A lot can happen between 1936 and 2012. It is likely someone has replaced a damaged Fargo grille with a good Dodge unit. Or even the whole front clip and / or body.

Search for a Fargo hood ornament and emblem and turn your Dodge back into a Fargo.

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Oh 1930. . . You disappoint me. The old question of restore or rod is a very tired one. I have seen many vehicles rodded simply because a restorer turned their nose up at them. I like seeing things saved from neglect and decay regardless. Do i need to remind you of your quote?

Chrycoman, i appreciate what you say. However, i have actually seen 1 example of a roadster ute (refered to locally as a rag top utility) not far from where i live that is 100% original ( and firmly in the grasp of a restorer/ preserver) that sports the same sheet metal as mine does and is exactly the same as the blue tourer. Another gentleman who built a fargo pick up as a rod had all original sheet metal and the differences were a little more than just the badges. Dont get me wrong, i appreciate the input.

When i was in the states a few years ago i saw a dodge tourer (displayed as an Australian body style) in a collector car show room and the only difference between it and the blue one i posted was the grill either side of the vertical insert. It had a passenger car grill instead of the commercial one. Regardless of the insert, everything else was the same including the bolt on wind screen posts like a ford.

A point i would like to raise is that the early years of the auto industry in this country was a bit unique. In order to avoid substantial taxes, all manufacturers would export their cars and trucks to Australia as chassis units or CKD's (complete knock down kits) so as to protect local industry. I believe Henry Ford even did this within the US and Canada. Which is why there are fords here with holden (later to become GM) badges on the lower left side of the cowl. Years ago i saw one in original un restored condition. This was before ford built their plant in Victoria in 1925. Does this make them less of a ford because another coach builder assembled the bodies? I always thought these T's should be the most highly collectable.

Until recently i owned a totally original 1919 hupmobile ute built by evers motor company in Brisbane. All numbers matched, all paint matched, all panels matched. It was parked in a shed around 1942 and exposed to the elements again in 2008, due to the original owner not returning from ww2. Is this less of a hupp?

Surely these vehicles of this time had to be built to approved designs.

Here's a couple of aussie dodges and a holden built model T, enjoy. The last one is a willys ute, also holden bodied.

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Quote.....Oh 1930. . . You disappoint me

Sorry Dad ;) but there are a hundred excuses that can be made to not restore a vehicle that is restorable or should be restored regardless of condition because of specific qualities it possesses or maybe sheer numbers

quote...........I have seen many vehicles rodded simply because a restorer turned their nose up at them. I like seeing things saved from neglect and decay regardless............Find another restorer, do the work yourself or find another home for it where its historical significance will be maintained.

It all comes down to where the priorities are of the people that are in possession of said vehicle, if they are truly interested in preserving a piece of history because they appreciate the history than that is what will happen, doesn't make any difference how many years it takes and how impossible the parts are to find it will be done, there are countless stories of this on this site alone.

If however they don't care about preserving the history or would enjoy preserving the history as long as it doesn't take a whole lot of effort than they will most likely end up rodding the car.

I do enjoy looking and appreciate just as strongly vehicles that were cut up and transformed to lets say the Utes that you posted above. In my opinion these vehicles are worth every bit of effort to restore them just as they are found ( as utes ) because the deed was done out of essence ( long long ago before they took any significance within our historical itinerary ) or the vehicles that are sent as you mentioned overseas in pieces for a custom body builder such as Richards to assemble as the customer saw fit.

Just to clarify I feel these vehicles should not be changed back in any way to what they maybe should have been or were at one point.

The person that did what he did to the car in the picture above that you posted that initiated my first post on this topic did what he did because it simply was not important to him to preserve that piece of Australian history assuming that is a car there in your own homeland.

I think you have a very special Fargo truck, a Fargo truck here in the states is as rare and as special as a full bodied Dodge would be in your country and prob. even rarer since they were exports.

I myself would not be disappointed with learning that it is a Fargo, I wouldn't personally care that it is a Frankenstein of sheet metal. Sounds like you have had it a very long time ( at least since the 70s ) and sounds like you had nothing to do with its present state ( except it present condition maybe, looks like more effort could have been made to protect it from the elements ) I would do my best to restore it back to the condition at the least as to how you found it using all of the mis-matched sheet metal since it sound like there is no definite way of proving that it was not originally built this way or its change was not done a very long time ago before the vehicle deserved or had any real importance to anyone

Seems like you have a real appreciation for these vehicles so I hope that you make the right choice with it.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Hey 1930 perhaps i got you all wrong.

These utes are as they were sold new. It was a real market here. My dodge/fargo was originally built this way, as was my hupmobile. Yes a lot of vehicles were 'uted' i also used to own a 28 nash that got the ute treatment but was in such bad shape i sold it to another guy who needed an engine, gearbox and diff. There is also a very early rolls royce with horizontal grill bars kicking around that was cut to a ute a long time ago that was restored beautifully and what a treasure it is. I suppose the deflation felt to hear my dodge could be a fargo comes from seeing more fargo trucks than dodges of this era. Especially the early 30's, most just didnt survive. Nearly all our early vehicles were timber frames with sheet metal nailed to it, consequently the frames rotted away an the sheet metal fell on the ground. The 35 roadster in the pics above is an example of this, lots of wood to replace. Boy, how much pain could one person endure? I have been looking for a long time to find one and i could count on one hand how mant i have come across. Ive seen more tourers/ phaetons of this make and year than roadsters and utes( ones that are supposed to be that way and not home made. Some body told me once that less than 200 were built. ). The plymouth in the pics is also in the states and sold not that long ago for about 60 000.

The reason im doing this research into my dodge/ fargo is because im not sure what to do with it. All i know is that i want to drive it. The original example i saw a few years ago looked really good. Wide and low with a really low windscreen height. I still think they are better looking than the fords and chevs of similar era. If i could find it i would post the picture of the 35 ford roadster ute i tried to buy, im sure they want drug money for it now.

Any way, my dodge lost its front axle and diff a long time ago when it was pulled apart. This is where the problem lies. The sheet metal was put away under a house, and the heavy mechanicals were left out side in the weather under some trees. Consequently their all stuffed (the pan on the motor, diff housing and brake drums were rusted through so i didnt even bother to bring them home.). So im not sure wether to restore or resto rod. I want it to at least look like it should be. I have all the original sheet metal and the timber tray and brackets. So all the important stuff is there. If it turns out to be a genuine rarity i will buy a sedan with a rotten body and use the mechanical bits. The neat thing about many of these early open bodies is that they were hand made. I got real lucky a while ago and bought another windscreen, posts even had the wing nuts still on. The problem is although its off the same make and model, and being that tj richards were the chrysler/ plymouth and dodge body builders. It even came from the same factory. But, Its not exactly the same as the one on my dodge (overall its slightly bigger and doesnt fit the body line quite the same). I think it depended on who was working that day and which day of the week it was. A friend of mine has a Willys sedan hes playing with, it must have been built on a friday because ive never seen so much lead in one car before in my life, and both front doors were different lengths.

This time the pic is my hupmobile, 1919 ute. Windscreen posts had been modified, rear fenders were tourer, all paint matched front to rear. I could find no reason to believe anything had been altered since it was built. The body tags were still nailed to the inside of both doors.

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Boy thats a fine looking car/truck, not sure why but although I am always hearing more parts are available here I am constantly being shown pictures from you guys down there of cars such as this.

I still wouldn't do a thing to that old ute (except get it drivable ) until I had no choice because it was collapsing in on itself.

As far as what you say all here........So all the important stuff is there. If it turns out to be a genuine rarity i will buy a sedan with a rotten body and use the mechanical bits. The neat thing about many of these early open bodies is that they were hand made. I got real lucky a while ago and bought another windscreen, posts even had the wing nuts still on. The problem is although its off the same make and model, and being that TJ Richards were the Chrysler/ Plymouth and dodge body builders. It even came from the same factory. But, Its not exactly the same as the one on my dodge (overall its slightly bigger and doesn't fit the body line quite the same). I think it depended on who was working that day and which day of the week it was. A friend of mine has a Willys sedan hes playing with, it must have been built on a friday because ive never seen so much lead in one car before in my life, and both front doors were different lengths.

............This is where I would be thinking and so if you know ( and I even have the feeling just from seeing the various pictures I have seen and the stories I have been told ) that no two are the same and one guy could have worked on one half of the car sober and the other side of the car was done by the other chap with a warm tingly feeling in his belly than that is all the more reason to not be so overly concerned with over restoring it as we tend to do here in the states.

Restore it and know that it never was asymmetrically perfect and you will have more fun in doing so maybe. Good luck and have fun with it.

P.S. Quote..........These utes are as they were sold new..........I did not know this, I thought these were done after the fact, alot of this was done here in the war effort so I assumed it was the same case there.

I have never seen a Fargo truck here in the states and I have traveled all over the country, not saying these isnt one here but I dont know where its hiding.

Quote..........Nearly all our early vehicles were timber frames with sheet metal nailed to it, consequently the frames rotted away an the sheet metal fell on the ground.............I keep forgetting this, I am used to Budd all steel bodies with very little wood in them. That would explain the poor conditions for sure.

If its is that rare I would buy a parts car myself, something less desirable, hate to badmouth 4 dr sedans because I like them too but they are a little more common here at least.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Now that you have me thinking maybe you or someone can answer a few questions,

1- I have read about the vehicles that were deemed export sent as a tinker toy set and even have pictures of them being crated up but what ( if there were being built as Utes upon arrival ) happened to all the extra parts. I could see some of them going into storage but assuming we are talking about several hundred thousand vehicles being sent this way and thats alot of parts to hoard away if you get my meaning.

2- What did Chrysler ( or other auto manuf. ) do as far as a warranty on these vehicles. Hard to imagine Chrysler not having his own agents paying a visit every now and again and seeing these vehicles being sold as trucks instead of passenger cars.

3- I wonder now if TJ Richards ( for example, I know there were others ) had a deal with Chrysler to send only partial assy, just the stuff he needed at a discount cost per vehicle.

4- Lastly any idea as to when all of this stuff about sending the vehicles is pieces started and when that all came to an end because goverment had wised up on the game?

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