walnut trim panels

[Guest u571]

I try to plan my projects a little in advance so I am familiar with the parts needed.I am now thinking about replacing the walnut trim panels on the doors of my '63.As a former furniture maker/craftsman I have a lot of experience with woods and veneers.Whats funny to me is that until I bought my riviera I would have sworn the veneer trim was lightly stained maple.Upon close inspection it is obviously faded american walnut.As some of you fellow wood lovers know some woods bleach out with exposure to u.v light and some darken(like cherry wood for example).So here is what I would like some opinions on;I have decided to buy a kit rather than do my own veneered panels due to all the other projects and the fact that I have to work for a living...dont you just hate that!Anyway the original walnut veneer is quarter sliced which has a very linear quality.not much character or "grain" but very consistant from car to carI finally got my opgi catalog and their color picture appears to show a quarter cut veneer.Clarks black and white pic is obviously a flat sliced veneer which,while more interesting given the random cathedral patterns is not accurate for the period I believe.Cars catalog rendering looks like how can I say...dog doody? I like cars but I wouldnt trust a sales persons knowlege over mine on the subject of wood over the phone.It is interesting that all the rivs I've seen have faded wood so I always assumed it looked that way from the factory and the replacement panels will take a little getting used to.I would hope that the top coat lacquer finish on the new panels are u.v resistant,not that my new baby will be sunbathing much,but I do live in southern arizona where the sun shines or blazes about 355 days a year!

Thanks for your opinions if you have replaced your panels,Mark:)

[Guest REX STALLION]

I am a Cabinet Maker as well,I used Birds eye maple to replace mine. (only because I had it laying around ) It looks great! Super easy to do as well.

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I bought one of the available wood kits for my '64, forgot where I bought it though. The kit was easy to install. Of course then, I was in the process of putting my interior back together at the time so it just came all together... If I had to do it again, I would.

[Patrick91914]

I used the Cars kit and it looks great. Although I had my upholsterer replace it, that task appear to be simple. The hardest part was removing the old veneer from its backing. Good luck!

[Guest u571]

I guess I havent made myself very clear.Installation is a no brainer and making my own is a possibility.What I need to know is if anyone sells a kit that looks like the original wood but not faded or course.

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I guess I havent made myself very clear.Installation is a no brainer and making my own is a possibility.What I need to know is if anyone sells a kit that looks like the original wood but not faded or course.

Are the '63s & '64s the same ?? When I bought my kit, I assumed it was like the OEM wood grain that came with the car. The old stuff in my car was so far gone, there was no way I could've used it for a comparison.

Any pics of the OEM wood grain for these cars when it was new ??

Edited May 1, 2011 by Kingoftheroad (see edit history)

[Guest u571]

63 and 64 are the same on the door trim and I believe 65 had the painted fake inlay detail.

It is my belief,and Im no expert,that the wood "grain" was very straight and linear and NOT what the clarks catalog shows.My existing wood trim is in relativlely good condition but very washed out yellowish-not brown as walnut would look before the sun faded it.

Mark

[Guest u571]

OK,I did a little research.If you log on to the ahturf.com site -click on walnut-click on quartersawn walnut veneer,this is what I believe all first gen. rivieras had for the trim.

If you bought a kit that looks like this style striped wood grain,then let me know.

Thanks,Mark

[RivNut]

Try to take some lacquer thinner and take the old clear coat off the wood. It's usually that lacquer clear coat that's the problem. The wood underneath shouldn't be so bad that you can't get an idea of what it looked like originally. From what I can tell the 63 and 64 door panels are the same grained walnut but the stain on the 63 is a shade darker than that on the 64. I've seen a number of cars at ROA meets with Clark's verneer kits in them and they look really good when compared to some car that has a good original interior.

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

OK,I did a little research.If you log on to the ahturf.com site -click on walnut-click on quartersawn walnut veneer,this is what I believe all first gen. rivieras had for the trim.

If you bought a kit that looks like this style striped wood grain,then let me know.

Thanks,Mark

Sorry, I couldn't find anything like you described. I did however click on "veneers"(bottom right on opening page) and there were two selections, the one on the left looks like that of the center console veneer in the '64 kit.

[Guest u571]

Sorry,I found this site by a link and didnt realise they had a zillion products.Anyway after you click on "shop by catagory","see all","veneers", click the walnut sample and click on 2' x 8' walnut and then "quartersawn walnut". If you compare this to the flat sawn walnut you will see a difference in the grain pattern.The quartersawn (actually sliced not sawn) is a more expensive cut as the yield is less but I think Buick chose it because of its consistancy of pattern.When you look at the burl veneer on say a Jag or Rolls,this is hand picked,matched and positioned so one piece of trim matches up precisely with the piece next to it pattern wise. If you are lucky to have an opgi catalog and a clarks catalog you will see a difference in grain type and I suspect the cars inc. panels are just like clarks.I was just looking for confirmation.

I agree with Ed that anything new looks better than original faded wood but with this restoration I want evey detail to appear factory correct.

I have done custom interior work on 2 other cars I restored and upgraded and never had to ask a question as it was all about what I wanted.I ask questions of other more knowlegable riviera owners as I want to do every thing right the first time or as close to right as possible.

Mark

[RivNut]

I can see where you'd want the interior to appear as close to original as you can get it, but there are probably a couple of things you might consider.

1) There's probably no one, BCA judges included, who can tell you exactly what the original looked like, and

2) When origninally installed, the veneer was real wood. What are the chances of 40,000 cars having exactly the same grain, and color?

Food for thought. One thing I might add is that if you want it to be original, then you'll need to find foil backed veneer.

Ed

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I want to do every thing right the first time or as close to right as possible.

Mark

That has been my goal too but, I sadly had to make some concessions due to the fact that some stuff simply isn't available with no reproductions being made.

I see now what your referring to, IMO that sample is not the same as my console or door /quarter panel pieces.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Kingoftheroad (see edit history)

[Guest u571]

I hear what your saying .of course no wood grain is identical but the orientation in which it was cut is what determines if the reproduction part is is correct or not.Anyway it looks like opgi may have the more accurate repro.If I dont like their kit I can return it and make my own panels easy enough,just trying to save some time.

Mark

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I hear what your saying .of course no wood grain is identical but the orientation in which it was cut is what determines if the reproduction part is is correct or not.Anyway it looks like opgi may have the more accurate repro.If I dont like their kit I can return it and make my own panels easy enough,just trying to save some time.

Mark

Good Luck, I'm looking forward to seeing the completed interior.

[1965rivgs]

This is a great post!

I recently checked out a Cars console kit is another member`s car (saw the receipt) and didn`t care for it. The veneer was grayish in color and not my impression of close to the original. I did not see the door panels, just the console kit. It did appear to be cut well, though.

I have a Clark`s kit I hope to install and just double checked it for this post. I love the "hue" of the stain and to look at the panels they look impressive. But if originality is a priority they are easy to pick off. The texture of the grain is prominent (my impression of the originals is there is such a heavy clear coat the grain is a smooth surface) and the black pin stripe appears to have been placed after finishing. I could be wrong but you can catch the pin stripe with your fingernail. Not so with the originals. The originals look embossed instead of applied if that makes sense.

I also have a kit that was done years ago by Jim Osborne (?) Dont think he does them anymore but I could be wrong. The hue and pinstripe/embossing are right on. But the texture of the grain is visible. If this kit was clear coated to turn that texture smoother it would be right on in my opinion. Is that possible woodworkers?

If I was in the "business" I would reproduce a kit that was absolutely correct and charge whatever was necessary to make it worth while (hint, HINT!)

Tom Mooney

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I'm pretty happy with mine the way it turned out, regardless of how close to the original it is. Plus, its held up real well over the years and still looks great ! I'm glad I put the interior back as close as I could get it to original, its great to see all the detail cars back then had.

[Guest u571]

Hi Tom,thanks for your post.The problem with a wood like american black walnut is that there can be grey areas and stain would be one way of maintaining consistancy.Stain also can add u.v protection,staving off the fading or sun bleaching process.One thing thats for sure is back in 1962 the cost of walnut wood and veneer was no where near today and there were a lot of large trees from old growth forests around.I cant say for sure if GM stained those panels but Im pretty certain that there was a relatively thin top coat which would not fill the wood pores fully but possibly more than what is available today.Also nothing close to what jaguar etc. did-which cracks over time anyway.If I was still in the business,I would be producing the highest quality kits and for not much more than they sell for.Of course the vendors are buying them wholesale.

Thank you for all that contribute to our posts because it starts the thinking process which helps us all learn.The posters on this site are real gentlemen(and lady??)and can draw from a wealth of experiences.

Mark

[1965rivgs]

Buick definitely used a dark stain on the originals...very dark. The original color can be seen in areas which have not been exposed to uv light, like behind the plastic washer which insulates the vent crank handle from contacting the wood. And behind the "R" emblem when removed. The original panels look smooth, no raised grain.

Tom

[RivNut]

I realize that you guys are wood workers and enjoy the avocation therefore this post may or may not mean anything to you. But, here goes. One of the better looking set of door panels I have seen is on a '64. The grain is rich, has a nice quarter-sawn grain. Is a really good color, and is smooth and will not react to UV light. The panels are made from a dark walnut grained Formica. :eek: It's really hard to tell that it's not real wood. I wouldn't have known if the owner had not told me. :confused:

Ed

[Ron Luchene]

After a lot of searching I chose to buy a 2x8 sheet of quarter sawn walnut veneer with the PSA backing. Once I cut the pieces out, I coated each piece with two coats of clear Watco oil. I let it dry for a couple of days and then sprayed the pieces with two coats of clear polyurathane. I let that dry a couple of days and then masked the door panel pieces and sprayed the black pinstripes. I removed the masking and top that with two more coats of polyurathane and installed them.

I'm not positive they would meet the close scrutiny of a judge but I am restoring the car for me and I think they look great! The car is parked in the gararge so prolonged sun exposure is not an issue. Total cost was less then $100 and maybe 4-5 hours of my time. No guarantee's but I'll bet I'm still satisfied with the results 10 years from now.

[Guest u571]

Looks great.Oh and by the way Ed,we dont use the "F" word here!

[bepnewt]

Looks great.Oh and by the way Ed,we dont use the "F" word here!

Did he says Ford?!?

Anyway... I love the color on your wood trim, Don.

I have a wood kit from Larry Daisey in my garage, the last one he made he said and I don't think he's making any more. It's still in the packaging as I haven't opened it. My '64 didn't have any wood trim from the factory, but I'll be adding it some day.

Since it's an "add-on" to my car, I'm not concerned at all about how accurate it is, only if it looks good. My Riv is so far away from stock at this point, I don't feel badly about doing whatever I want to it. I'd love some wood trim in a curly maple pattern stained to look like Don's in my car, for sure!

-BEPNewt

[Guest jmar183]

Did the 65' have the black pinstripe on the console and doors or just the doors?

[1965rivgs]

Just the side panels, front and rear,

Tom

[Guest jmar183]

Thanks, Tom. Do you guys recommed clarks kit or one from OPGI. OPGI is almost $100 cheaper but not sure of the quality or how well it matches the door panel.

[RivNut]

Just go back and read some other threads about OPGI; that should help you some. How soon do plan on doing your door panels. I'd bet a good sum that the guys from CARS will be at the meet in Lexinton in June (they were in Monterey last year and Lexinton is only 1/3 the distance.) Come down there and look at their stuff. I'll say that if CARS is selling it, you're probably going to be sure that it's correct. I'll say the same thing about Clarks Corvair and their products.

If you're a wood worker, it's easy enough to purchase some quartersawn walnut verneer and make your own. For me it's always a two out of three toss up with the BIG 3 T's. I usually have only two of the three at any one time. The three T's are time, talent, and treasure.

Ed

[rocky5517]

I have a 67, and the trim was lousy; blistered, faded, dull. I tried to sand it but it wouldn't budge. Some people said to use a chemical stripper but I wasn't comfortable with that. I ended up getting a razor blade and peeling it off.When I did, the wood looked a lot better. I stained it with some Miniwax and sealed with lacquer ( I think). Will look up the pix. One odd thing; if I had to describe how the old protective coating (lacquer?) peeled off, it looked like the skin of a snake- no kidding.

[mp65riv]

I know this conversation has been focused on the 63-65 models, but has anyone seen replacement veneer panels for the 66-67 models with the full console between the bucket seats? I have a sizable chip in my orpiginal panel and am looking for a replacement. Thanks much!!

[RivNut]

I've purchased veneer from this company before. Great selection and some come with the foil back as did the originals.

Hardwood trim, woodworking hand tools, and more - Constantines.com - Veneer

Ed

I know this is not what you're looking for but for you 63 guys, this is the correct 1/4 sawn walnut as used in '63. You'd need to do the finish work to it, but the nice thing about this one is that it's 'peel-n-stick.'

http://www.constantines.com/walnutquartered1.aspx

Edited February 5, 2013 by RivNut
added peel-n-stick (see edit history)