Guest Kahuna28 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Well I've been planning this for a while, but I still haven't figured out the best approach. I'm sure it's not as easy as it seems or I'd hear about it being done more often, but this really would help me accomplish my plans for the car so I'm determined to make it work. The reason I'm doing it sooner than I planned is I've got a bad fuel sending unit (this is where the snowball started) on my '65. When this started I wasn't able to track down a rebuilt one (Larry at RR had stopped rebuilding them and was in the process of moving, obsolete GM had them on backorder...) so a friend attempted to fix the copper strip that was broken... Anyway, I know there are new ones now being made (anyone try them?) but I thought about my planned dash swap and figured I should work that out first because maybe the best way to swap would be to also swap the gas gauge (In which case the 90 ohm sending unit would also need to be replaced).So I'm asking the experts now that I'm up to my elbows in it, what is the best way to do this. I basically want the ribbed aluminum (?) dash and the gauge faces from the '64 on my '65. Initially I thought I'd just swap those parts out (the '64 dash and just the '64 gauge faces), leaving the mechanisms '65 ('65 circuit board, speedo, and gas gauge). Now that I've started, I see the speedos LOOK the same and maybe they can just be swapped in total, and the gas gauges are different in size (range) so the hole in the '64 face would need to be widened... :confused: Is it better (possible) to swap out the '64 gas gauge and sending unit with the '65? If I kept the '65 gauge and sending, they appear to have different ways to ground which would need to be addressed and a bigger hole to be cut in the back of the dash, are there other electrical issues, etc?? I see there is a plug (female) of sorts that is not on the '64 under the gas gauge, what is that? Can the speedos be swapped ?? I plan to keep the center unit up through the radio from the '65, I just want to swap out the sides. What other things have I not addressed??? I have a couple '64 dashes, and my stock '65 dash. I did a search and came up empty, any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Ahh, still no responses... Looks like I may have some headaches ahead of me... Anyone do this, ... heard rumors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Sorry, if I knew, I'd help you.Good Luck on your project.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mt65riv Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 If I knew how, I'd help too. What I would is kinda what you are already doing. Break everything down into systems. First, check to see if the basic bezels and trim pieces are the same (measurements, screw locations, etc.) then check out each item in the panels to see if there are any differences with functions or (like your fuel sender) electrics. I had a '63 a long time ago and I don't recall all the features. They all look very similar.Good luck. I, too, like the '64 dash and would put on in my '65 if I had one. You aren't doing this to a real GS, are you? The main thing I would worry about with that is value of the GS afterwards. I think stock is best on those. :cool: I've seen customized stuff done to rare cars that just plain ruin their value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yeah, I know there will be some here that will disagree with some of my plans. But I look at it this way, the last car I owned was a rare car that I spent 6 years restoring to frame off, numbers matching, bone stock. (It was a 1969 camaro rs/ss convertible). I mean this car was a nut and bolt rework that I obsessively researched (which if you know camaros, it's very difficult to do, no standards across the board). Literally a week after I had everything dialed in, it was stolen from my driveway in the middle of the day.!! Anyway, with this one I have an idea to make this the perfect car for me and enjoy it now. The modifications I'm doing are period correct and the plan is to have a prototype riviera (With the exception of air bags, that were bolt on- no frame modification). The purist in me will not allow any undoable modifications and I will keep every piece I remove in case I decide to go back to stock. I am not 100% sure (haven't checked all the #'s) it's a GS, but I bought the car from Ken at Wheatbelt and I have no reason to doubt his claim it's a GS so I believe it is.The reason I'm doing this at all is the car has been "restored" in the past with at least 2 repaints, reupholstered, and too many things do not fit right, too many gremlins, too many missing screws & too many amateur (cheap and fast) repairs. This car is in no way unmolested, in fact I'd say most has been touched and needs to be brought back anyway.As for the dash, it's looking pretty straight forward, some unseen mods will be needed to the '64 dash, it really seems to be a matter of tracking the electronics, which after talking to a few Riv guys MAY need some reworking or MAY not. But so far I've not talked to anyone who's tried it.PS I just picked up a rear arm rest from Riviera Bob this morning. I'm stoked to finally get one so it's out to the garage to start tearing it down so I can restore it and get it in!! Will keep you posted on what I learn about the dash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have the dashes off and side by side for comparison, and as I was told there seems to be one extra circuit on the '65 instrument panel board than on the '64. My amateur guess is that it's an extra (split) common or such, because there are the same amount of elements on both dashes... So I need to track this down. I was wondering if someone can send me or direct me to the wiring diagram for the '64 instrument cluster. I have the '65 service manual, but not the '64. It's on pages 10-162 & 10-163 (I really only need 10-163, but both pages would be helpful) of the '65 manual if that helps. I'd be very grateful.... I have to think enough as it is doing this wiring stuff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Arron, Shoot me your email address and I scan scan and email the info you need, Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thanx Tom,I sent you an email to your sbc account.Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Another question I have is can anyone recommend a replacement for the "felt" or whatever the material is that acts as a buffer between the chrome vent balls and their sockets?? I seem to remember a adhesive backed fuzzy "tape", but I have no idea where I've seen it (getting old).. I was planning on searching the box stores for a thin foam weatherstrip but I'm not sure how that will hold up.. Anyway, I figure I should add something since I have the dash off...Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abandg Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Aaron, just cut a small thin piece of felt and with the fuzzy side out just glue it in. It will keep the vent ball from bouncing around. Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Use felt to replace felt.... Sometimes I over think things . Thanx, Gene.Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Hobby shops usually stock pieces of square felt with an adhesive already on it. You just have to peel the backing away. Just make sure that you get the thickest piece you can. The thin stuff just lies in the groove and doesn't contact the bezel in which it sets. Don't ask me how I know this. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Just a follow up. Thanx to Tom's help I discovered the additional circuit on the '65 is the parking brake light. Anyway, after discussing this with a few more friends who knew much more about the electrical world than I, I decided it would be better to use the '65 circuit board on my '64 dash. That would allow me to keep my '65 wiring, gas gauge, and sending unit stock, and like I thought only require holes cut in the '64 dash and completing the circuit for the gas gauge. While I have it out I'm polishing, lubricating, and painting dash parts (AC vents, radio, hvac controls, shifter, switches, etc.)The first pic is the two circuit boards. The 2nd shows the holes that need to be cut. 3rd and 4th show the condition of the gauges before and after (being test fit in the '65 dash). The next two are obvious, and I finally got to lubricate the radio buttons (they work great now). And the last shows my two added switches (I cut an extra panel I had that was already cut into by a previous owner). Anyway, I will keep posting progress for those interested.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bepnewt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Anyway, I will keep posting progress for those interested...Please do! The only reason I got a '64 instead of a '65 was I don't like the dash of the '65s. You're making my ultimate '65 mod!-BEPNewt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Arron, I`m confused?? I thought your purpose was to use the ribbed `64 dash in your `65? Is that coming later? Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Lol... Sorry Tom, I'm not always the best at explaining myself and that pic is a bit misleading. Yeah I'm putting the '64 dash in the '65... I put the gauges in the '65 dash to basically keep them clean and together while I fix and paint the '64 dash. I'm also trying to replace all the incorrect fasteners, etc. (I Have so many parts disassembled, chances are good I'll misplace something if I don't keep things together:D).I reattached the laminent for the '65 circuit board with spray adhesive, and I checked for continuity on the circuits, I think it should be ok. I plan to paint this weekend and I'll be able to start putting things back together. I also got my new '65 sending unit, so I will be able to complete that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hi Arron, Where did you obtain your new sending unit? I`m sure quite a few folks would like that info. Good price? Also, I would test the unit before buttoning up the whole job. You dont want to assemble the tank, etc only to find the sender is not wired properly for the gauge or you need a supplemental ground, etc...good luck! Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 Hey Tom,I went to the E site to get the sending unit. It seems someone is remaking them in stainless for around $80 + shipping. I think that was a great price considering how hard they are to find. I hope they continue manufacturing them, I don't look forward to the stick in the tank idea!!I think there are 2 sellers, I went to tazimmy. All I can say now is they were fast and the unit "looks" nice. They may be in stock by now at GM obsolete, but they were about $120 there. I will test the setup, thanx for the suggestion, (I hope the gauge didn't get damaged during disassembly). I was careful with it, but the open nature of these gauges make me nervous...Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Well I finally got the dash in. I got a little side tracked on painting the car, so I also painted the console and dash. As you can see I also put on a '63 steering wheel. I got a cracked one from riviera Bob along with a mess of other parts that I figured would be easier to restore than my cracked '65. And I figured I'd have fun with it by flaking it two tone. It turned out great (Hard to photograph, but you get the idea. I now have a cool accessory wheel while I repair or replace the '65.As for the dash, some of the idiot lights don't work (bad bulbs or ground I'm sure), but the rest works great. The clock runs fast but I'm sure it will auto adjust in a few days and the sending unit is not in yet. I need help dropping the full tank, but I was able to test the unit with the tan wire and a good ground.I reallllyyyy like the way this dash looks, and lightens up the cockpit, I now need to address the carpet and wood, but I have a few events I wanna hit first:D!! I'll post some pics of the new paint once I get all the trim back on, it turns some heads..The last two pics show the holes I needed to cut for the gas gauge. Thanx for all the help.!!Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The clock is makes speed corrections when you reset it. If you keep setting it back it will eventually run at the correct speed. If you don't adjust anything, it will continue to run at the speed it's running at now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mt65riv Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 That looks fantastic! Great job. Restoring the wheel isn't that hard, and you'll have an extra. I like the lighter look, too. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 That looks fantastic! Great job. I like the lighter look, too. MikeWhat he said ^^^^The 65s dash came in color, unlike the silver of the 63 & 64 dash ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1970 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Man I really like what you've done Aaron. Good job. I much prefer the '64 dash. By the way I set my clock back every time I get in my Riv. It runs fast and has never corrected itself. I did read that they are meant to correct themselves. Mine hasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The clock is makes speed corrections when you reset it. If you keep setting it back it will eventually run at the correct speed. If you don't adjust anything, it will continue to run at the speed it's running at now.If your like me and your 63 - 65 Riv clock only shows the correct time twice a day, where can you find another one or a replacement inner workings ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Two word:Quartz conversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Two word:Quartz conversionThanks.I know that & going quartz is cheaper but I was wondering if there is a place or a recommended product you suggest for an easy clock R&R ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 First try to spray some electrical contact cleaner in it and see if that helps. The clock is a manual clock that uses a short burst of 12V to wind a main spring. Once the mainspring is wound, there's no current to the clock, it runs off the mainspring. I'd think that any clock repair shop could fix these clocks. They're ususally dirty and the contacts are corroded. Most of the time a good cleaning will get you going again.Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingoftheroad Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 First try to spray some electrical contact cleaner in it and see if that helps. The clock is a manual clock that uses a short burst of 12V to wind a main spring. Once the mainspring is wound, there's no current to the clock, it runs off the mainspring. I'd think that any clock repair shop could fix these clocks. They're ususally dirty and the contacts are corroded. Most of the time a good cleaning will get you going again.EdThanks, I'll give it a shot .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Thanx, for the compliments, I'm very happy with the results. I can check off one on my to-do list, 99 to go...All I did to get the clock running was what Ed said... Contact cleaner. Runs like a (albeit fast) top. I was making things worse because I kept going forward to reset the clock. So it probably ran faster each time I reset it. Apparently when I took it apart to clean it I didn't tighten the chrome knob enough so it felt like I couldn't turn the clock CCW to reset it.... Rookie mistake:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I really like these '63 '64 steering wheels better than the standard '65 wheel!! The is just fyi, but I'm sure most of you may know this... Well as you saw I flaked the '63 wheel in two tone, but when it was painted I forgot to bring the back plate for the horn bar!! So I've been running around with this nicely painted wheel with a drab grey back plate, I was trying to figure out a way I could throw some paint on it, not really wanting to flake just this small piece considering the amount of work involved when a friend suggested I polish it. "Since it's pot metal it should polish up like chrome".I thought that sounded like an exaggeration, but it was worth a shot... WOW, it really buffed out nicely!!! More shiny metal:D! Here's some before during and after shots. I highly recommend it!!!Question, (I don't have a assembly diagram of this wheel) is there anything between the wheel and the ground plate and do you completely screw in the screws into the bushing? I assembled the wheel, ground plate, springs, horn backing plate, bushing and screws, then horn cap. I think this is right, I just don't have a good contact with the horn, I have to push the horn from both sides....Thanx,Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 man, what a transformation of the horn bar, sure looks real good now. nice job. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mt65riv Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Wow! Do you have to coat it with clear to keep it from oxidizing? Great tech, again!Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sureshotcustoms505 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 any good ideas on how to find interior wood grain replacements?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) If you're not sticking to the topic, please start a new thread. Don't hijack an existing one. You can also search for previous threads on the same subject. This has been discussed multiple time previously.www.rivowners.org Join. There's a ton of informaton on vendors in the Restoration link. Edited July 8, 2011 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bepnewt Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 That horn bar is amazing.Mine doesn't look so good on the front. I need to look at the back and see how bad it is.-BEPNewt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kahuna28 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Wow! Do you have to coat it with clear to keep it from oxidizing? Great tech, again!MikeI honestly have no idea, never polished pot metal before. I do have that Diamond clear from eastwood. I used it on the aluminum rocker step plates after I polished them and was real disappointed with the results, so I will leave these bare and see how long it lasts. I'd rather have it shiny for a year than dull for 3. I'd think you could get by hitting it with a polish once in a while to spruce it up if it does oxidize, and if worse comes to worse hit it with the buffer again, it really won't be much work (the "hard" stuff is done;)).bepnewt, that is the weakest part of these wheels, the front horn bar. They really don't seem to buff out to well. I wish they were the same material as the backs!! I doubt your back is worse than mine was, the only part of mine that looked good when I got it was the chrome rings. I say try polishing the backs, you wont be sorry!! You can always repaint them when/ if you do a frame off:D.Ps, any of you '63 '64 guys have your wheel off lately, I was still wondering if I missed something on reassembly?Aaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsmalling Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Sweet Job! The Wheel looks Great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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