1936 4 dr sedan - just getting started

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

I just picked up my fathers 1936 Dodge this weekend (he bought in 1960 for $78 from the original owner) and am starting the process of restoring the interior and exterior. My brother has had it for 13 years and mechanically it is in good shape. I have a general question and a few specific questions.

1) My father in law and I are going to do most of the work ourselves (him mostly) and our main concern before we get started is will we be able to find most everything we need to put it back together. Primarily concerned about all of the gaskets, window rubber/tracks, window frames (for the rear vent window), window frame for the bottom of the door windows. My thought is these cars are restored every day, so I'm thinking we will be able to find most everything we need. We are not completing a frame off restoration, but a very nice paint job (my father in law was in the body business his whole life) and redo the interior (headliner, carpet, seats, trim pannels) and make this a car we can drive and enjoy.

2) Any sources for door stops and other interior/exterior door hardware. The front passenger door spring is broken and I'm missing two door handles and the lock for the passenger door.

3) Any sources for the window frames for the rear vent windows and for the frames for the bottom of the door windows.

I'll post a picture tomorrow. I look forward to learning from everyone.

[keiser31]

We're looking forward to seeing it.

[Guest 1930]

You are not going to be able to buy everything you would like new, some of the items will have to be purchased used and then restored, some of the items you will not be able to buy at all so be carefull when you dissasemble the car. I would suggest learning first what is avail and what is not before you take it apart that way you can make more informed decisions

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

Here are a couple of pictures.

Some will think think this is primer on the car, but is actually the second paint job (it was a bad paint job done by a friend of the family). Overall, it is in fairly good shape. The interior is all original, but basically rotted away.

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

1930 - Thank you for your words of wisdom!

[Guest 1930]

Hard to tell from the pictures so I will have to take your word on the crappy paint job, looks good to me though. I would also suggest that if you dont have a ton of money than just keep it original and fix it up enough to drive it, it would be a shame to get it all torn down and then figure out you just dont have the funds to finish it.

I also am or was a bodyman all of my life and know that even though I can do the work myself it still is not cheap.

Do you have any original tools that came with the car. I may have been told this before but can you remind me where your toolbox is or are the tools simply kept in the trunk originally.

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

I'll have to check the trunk for tools. Cleaning out the trunk is my project for this weekend.

On another note, any idea on how to get the door stops out of the body? I have two that are broken and will need to be removed.

Thanks!

[Guest 1930]

What i would suggest is to go online and find a manual for the car, I know virtually nothing about your model but I am thinking there is a service manual and of course an owners manual, you will most likely find the answer to alot of your questions in the service manual although these manuals lack body info many times.

There are a couple of other 36 owners on this forum and I am sure if you give them a few days to check in they will be able to answer all of your questions, may also consider joining the D.B club, there you will have contact info of alot of other 36 owners and that will prove most usefull.

[Guest 1930]

E-bay item # 140536973978 this is your service manual, like i said dont expect miracles as far as body section goes. If you type in 1936 Dodge service manual you will see the reprints like I have given you here. You will also see owners manuals, original and reprints, different editions but prob. all the same material. Id suggest finding out what edition you need by using your body # just because you can get the correct one but its your choice, as I mentioned chances are they are all identical but again I am unfamiliar with your car.

[JACK M]

You will have to pull the respective interior panels to access a couple of washers with slots sandwiching a piece of rubber, and a roll pin that holds it all on the flat bar. I see these kits cheap at swap meets that those guys that sell repop stuff sell at. I found some in a Willys site when I was looking a few years ago, ( The Willys pick up has the same device and a friend had searched them out). I suspect that if you order that rubber cushion from Burnbaum they would have any parts that you will need as well.

[Guest 1930]

Andy Bernbaum as Jack mentioned I guess has parts avail for your car.

[Guest 1930]

Someone here will have contact info

[jpage]

Hi Guy; Looks like you have ajob ahead. My advice is to SAVE EVERYTHING! Very few parts are available new. You will have to keep checking E-bay and advertise on the Dodge Bros. site. Restoration Specialties in PA have a good bit of rubber and fasteners both screws and body fasteners although very few body clips are available new. The rear vent windows are going to be hard. I hunted a long time before finding a set . You may want to find a good parts car. The front window channels are special and have to be rebuilt, I can help you with those if you're interested .I also have some misc. parts avail. so let me know what you might need. jamesopage@aol.com

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by the knowledge and kindness of everyone. You guys are great!

I have the rear vent windows, but the frame is just about rusted out, can this be used as a template to be fabricated? I'll email Mr. James about the front window channels. They are intact, but again some rust.

[Guest DodgeKCL]

Going back to those door stoppers- the 'system' goes back to at least 1933. Before that CPDD used a rubber impregnated flat cloth strap with a steel core. Your round rubber piece can be replaced with a black laboratory bottle stopper that has a hole in it for a pipette. The rest can be quickly fabricated by hand in a DIY shop. Take it from me, nobody is going to be looking inside your doors, so you can fudge it and nobody will know. Don't spend your life trying to make the inside of ANYTHING perfect. Only the outside counts even in a judging contest. We can't remove any covers during a judging meet. Yes I'm a judge.

So if you want to use RTV silicone rubber or epoxies be my guest. If the internal wood in the car was once ash and you can only find oak or cherry go to it. No one will ever know. I found this out the hard way.

Venti-pane frames can be made from steel channel,hinges brazed on, bent to form, and then chromed. I've seen this done and it may be the only way you'll get it done before you're on the other side of the grass. Sometimes waiting for a used part to show up at a fleamarket is too time consuming and never ending.

As everybody says 'DO NOT THROW ANYTHING OUT'. TAKE LOTS OF PHOTOS! There is no excuse to-day with our digital cameras. You cannot take TOO MANY photos. I already knew this when I started my KCL project,as I had done others previously, but I still wish I had taken MORE. Mind you I was firing off 35 mm. and I guess cost was in the back of my head. For safety's sake print the photos now and don't wait for your computer to crap out and take all your photos with it.

Been there,done that.

Edited March 11, 2012 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

Thank you Dodge KCL. A couple of follow up questions:

1) I was talking about the door stops (the hardware that keeps the doors from swinging open into the body. I can't (actually my father in law) seem to figure out how to remove them from the body as there doesn't appear to be access to the "A" post (where it attaches at the front of the door). Any ideas or did Jack M's response address it (I haven't had time to look at this again). We have the interior pannels off and can reach the door side of the stop.

2) On the venti pane frames, were those originally chrome? I'm guessing so since that is what you recommended and it would make sense to match the windshield, but I wanted to verify. Neighther side has any remnant of chrome or color on the frame, just a nice rust color!

Thanks again!

[Guest 1930]

Quote ........ Take it from me, nobody is going to be looking inside your doors,........Im going to look so you better get it right and furthermore take pride in everything you do, even if you spend a lifetime doing it, at least you will be remembered for it even if they remember you as an anal prick.

It dosent matter what the judges think, it only matters what you think, hold your head high and dont stand in front of those door stoppers evertime someone gets near them.

Just my opinion and not trying to start anything

[1936 D2]

Hi "2nd Owner"! Welcome to the forum!

I would first like to say you have a wonderful looking car there. It is a VERY GOOD start for an orderly full restoration that you will be very proud of as you progress. I have had my car(s) for over 20 years now and they are a never ending source of pride, fun, and a great way to meet some nice people.

You will see that I and many others here are all about "restoration" vs "resto-rodding". A lot of us feel these cars are a piece of history and should be kept as close to original as possible so future generations can appreciate the style of engineering during the period. Sounds like you are on the right track. You will find a LOT of help here to do just that as you proceed.

First I would suggest you do a "search" on this forum thread ("Dodge & Dodge Brothers") for more info already discussed. A lot of your questions have probably already been answered. You do this by going to the first page of "Dodge & Dodge Brothers" thread entries (where you entered your first question) and then look for the button at the right top of the forum listings called "Search This Forum". Pull that down and enter "1936 Dodge" then read through some of the threads in that search result. Close to half will be concerning trucks but much of that info will be helpful for your car too. Just be sure to do a bit more research as you dive into truck info so you know what is specific to trucks and what is the same on cars. You will also find a couple recent entries from "Grumpyone" who is at about the same position in time as you are with your nice "1936 Dodge D2 Beauty Winner 4Dr Touring Sedan".

As you do some research to become familiar with your car, ask pointed questions here and you will get in-depth answers. (As you can see concerning your door stoppers).

And POST PHOTOS! Learn how to make your digital photos come out to the right size so you can easily post them with your questions. There are instructions on how to do that here on the AACA Forums. AACA Forums - How to attach photos to your post . (It's actually pretty simple once you know the constraints of this system). You will thank yourself for taking the time learn do that!

Another thing you will find immeasurably helpful is to locate a "Dodge Passenger Car Parts List" or a "Dodge Preliminary Passenger Car Parts List" that cover all the parts for your car. These not only tell you what parts are used in your car and their original part numbers, but help identify particular parts for your model (the 4Dr Touring Sedan) vs other models in the Dodge lineup for '36. That is some really cool info!

Check this site to get you started on an idea for color info: Auto Color Library - The World's Largest Online Color-Chip Library . And this one for a start on searching for literature: Search Faxon Auto Literature .

Below are some photos of the rear quarter windows out of the car. Here is a link to some shots of that style window installed. Photobucket - '36 Dodge Quarter Window . Only the latch clip is chrome. The rest is either black (underneath and glass frame) or woodgrained (interior moulding trim). It is held in place by a full rim gasket and, as I recall, five longer screws. (BTW: there are NO Phillips head screws on this car, only standard head "flat blade screwdriver" style screws.)

Your trek has just begun! Have fun!!!

Edited April 28, 2011 by 1936 D2
Added link (see edit history)

[Guest DodgeKCL]

The door stops are a hinged bar going through a hole in the 'A' post and the rubber bumper is on the inside of the 'A' post on the far end of the bar working as a shock absorber and stop?? Is this the device you're talking about?

If it is, they are usually accessible through some opening on the body after upholstery panels or kick panels are removed.

I'm not sure if the rear venti pane holder in the photos is in the correct condition as new. Yes,the window surround is maybe body color on the outside and phony woodgrained on the inside, but isn't the glass holder chromed all over? I've never seen one otherwise.

1930 must be much,much younger than us.

I'm constantly in contact with people that are sweating a restoration from the inside out. Typical question="What's the correct washer under the screw to hold the bottom of the window channel inside a door off a 1930?" Yes they actually ask those kind of questions.

Please understand I'm trying to save '1936 Dodge 2nd owner' a lot of unnecessary nit picking restoration time. Like all of us,yes all of us ,own up to it, we did our first restoration in exactly this nit picking way. He will make his own decisions as to how he's going to proceed, I'm just trying to save him several years and ,in a lot of cases, giving up on the project because he just can't get it right.

And you know who you guys are that will lead him down the path of righteousness regardless of how much unnecessary time he's spending on a 4 door '36 Dodge. He ,and most of us, wants his father's car on the road and being enjoyed. Not up on blocks waiting for some insignificant part that could be substituted because it's inside a door.

[Guest 1930]

Quote..........I'm constantly in contact with people that are sweating a restoration from the inside out.........That must mean that you are much much older than everyone else :eek:

No offense just find it amusing when people try to reason why someone else thinks differently than themselves, I agree with not wanting to see it up on blocks, I think my second post clarified that on this thread.

[keiser31]

Not great photos, but I remember the rearmost side vent windows on my '36 touring sedan as having black painted edges around the glass. My car had been repainted, so I do not know if it was originally black or chrome. All of the ones I have seen were black. I don't know why Dodge would have accented that trim with chrome. I would say that if there were NO remnants of chrome left over on the parts, they were probably black.

Edited April 28, 2011 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

I agree with the idea of using the "best way to get it done" idea of "DodgeKCL" IF that way can't be seen. But if it can, effort should be expended to "do it right".

So, all in all, you still have to know how it was done originally to be able to make the best "stab" at making something that works correctly and safely so as not to damage some other part or yourself! An example of this can be the door stop. 'Tis true that the rubber part would almost be impossible to find a NOS (New Old Stock) one, but the hand made one that you would use in its place must work the same way as the original or damage will occur to the door hinge area or fenders if it fails. This is a good example of the two proposed lines of thought. "2nd Owner", you will run across these two lines of thought all along your trek to what you define as the "end" of your restoration. (In my opinion there never really is an "end" to the job. You will always find "improvements" that can be made. That's the fun!) In the mean time, you get the car setup to drive safely so it can be enjoyed as a "car" and not a piece of "engineering art". Then bring it closer to original as you go.

Some things you will only do once, like the paint job, so extra effort to make it "right" the first time is necessary. Other things you can "fix up", then make it "right" later.

On the door stop (actually called "Door Check Arm") question, "KCL" is right on part of this for the D2 4Dr Touring Sedan. The way to get behind the "C" pillar (if you will), is to remove the back seat arm rest in the back to get to the inner part of the pillar. There you can get to the rubber part of the rear door stop. The front door stops are reached through the door itself. The inner door panel should be removed. This is done by removing the obvious screws in the panel, the inner door handles need to be removed. There is a tapered pin through the square drive of the handle that is accessed by pressing in on the door panel and compressing the coil spring behind the escutcheon plate. The pin can then be pushed out (with a flat punch of the correct size) in the direction of the loose taper. The handles and escutcheons then come off. The window garnish moulding comes off with screws, there are a few spring clips pushed through round holes in the door framing that need to be popped out around the perimeter of the door and then the panel is lifted off the door.

The parts manuals have pictures of these "Check Arms". The fronts are a bit shorter than the backs.

The rear quarter windows on the '36 Dodge "D2" 4Dr Touring Sedan are as pictured. The window framing that holds the glass is black painted metal and has a thin "U" shaped (cross section) glass mounting rubber (and sealant) inside the metal channel. That channel (with the glass) is held in place pretty much by the formed rubber gasket that is all the way around the inside of the window frame (wood grained interior garnish) and two screws as I recall at the hinge point. This large gasket also forms the seal of this glass panel inside the cutout of the body. This gasket needs to be fresh or this window area will leak into the trunk and cause damage over time. (The gasket can be found new at a couple places with Steele Rubber Products being one of the available sellers of that part.)

Keep the questions coming!

[keiser31]

I guess I should have read "1936 D2's" post better. I babbled on about something he had already talked about. Sorry.

[Guest 1930]

Being in the buisness I have had first hand experience daily with cobbled work, it goes to one shop for previous repairs and someone does just enough of what it takes to ship it down the road, then I get it and guess what my first thought is when I go to replace that door skin and I notice wooden paddles stuck between it and the intrusion beam just so the mud would not pop of from flexability that might have otherwise been there had the popsicle sticks not been used.

I agree that there are smart ingenious ways around things such as possibly a labarotory stopper, I dont know what the originals looked like and I dont know what the stoppers look like so that is why I did not specifically comment on anything. I suggested and stand by my suggestion to take the extra effort to get it back to appear as original as possible no matter wether it is hidden or not, the next guy will thank-you and praise you for it

[JACK M]

Bone stock vs. Resto ? I like both....

Here are a couple of pics that may help you.

Front passenger door and both rears.

As you will see I used the washer that I found inside the door on the front and the previously mentioned 'Willys' kits on the back.

NO, THIS CAR DID NOT COME WITH POWER WINDOWS !!!

but it has them now

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

1936 D2, your pictures helped on the door check arm (I am teachable!!). My mounting brackets (up against the body) are broken off, but apparently there is a replacement/repair part that you can reweld onto the body. Did you have to do that?

Let the games begin, I ordered a radiator cap, owners manual and door lock spring today, running total for fixing up the car $58. I'm sure I will get advice to not keep a running total!! This weekend, clean out the car, remove the headliner (it is rotten) and check the door alignment!

I really appreciate everyone's help and if I have further questions, which I'm sure I will, I'll start a new post with a specific question.

[Guest 1930]

Dont keep a tab and check on what tools might be with the car

[1936 D2]

I am trying to put together a decent scan or photo of the door check arm from the tiny image of it in my copy of the parts manual. It is so small I am having some trouble. Watch for it in the future.

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

Thank you 1936 D2.

Good day today, took the headliner out and cleaned out the trunk, only two rats nests! It has the original spare tire, I'll post the pictures later.

1930 - I have the jack and jack arm and tire iron. None of the wrenches.

Best of all, it is cleaned up enough that my wife is willing to ride in it! Took the family to get ice cream today!

[1936 D2]

Excellent !!!

(Don't tell 'em about the mouse nests. Will make for more tasty ice cream!)

BTW: Where in this great world are you? (Generalities are fine).

[1936 Dodge 2nd Owner]

1936 D2 - I live in Burlington, NC. My dad bought the car in (near) Pittsburg from the original owner in 1960. It has since traveled to CT, SC and NC. Interestingly enough, it has resided about three miles from the Steele Rubber Company in Denver NC for the last 13 years. I'm hoping my brother has a way to get wholesale prices!! I've always said my father was a pack rat and saved everything (usually giving him grief), but when cleaning out the trunk we found the upper interior trim pannels for the front doors (the skinny piece that goes up by the window) and found a bag of buttons from the seats and trim pannels. All of the interior is original, but rotton. I even noticed for the first time ever, the hardware for the shade that goes over the back window. Yes, it still had that hardware. I don't know that I'm missing a single interior piece, so hopefully that will make replicating them a little easier.

Even the dome light cover is there and the dome light works! Simply amazing. Thank you for your assistance.

[1936 D2]

Cool! Keep those photos and questions coming. Will be watching for new "threads".

Have fun!

[1936 D2]

Followup - Here is a photo I found of a car on eBay showing some of the more hidden interior dash, door and firewall parts. You can see the inner parts of the Door Check Arm inside the front framework of the door pictured.

[Guest 1930]

Looks like someone started removing the floor on that one?

[1936 D2]

Yup. Toe board (metal) is gone. It's just an eBay photo so I don't know anything about it 'cept what I can see. Should look like this though:

[Guest 1930]

Im glad I asked then, I would have never known that was bolted in, surprised to see that still on a later car, was that the only part of floor bolted in?

[1936 D2]

Nope. The "hump" section you see for the transmission and clutch area is also bolted in. From the front of the front seat back is spot welded together.

[Guest 1930]

Thanks