D34 without Fluid Drive

[1950Dodge]

Question for any of the Mopar Gurus: Did they make any 1949-1952 Dodge passenger cars without the fluid coupling, that is, with the standard flywheel/3 speed manual? The reason I ask is that a local retired city Cop told me that his department had 1950-52 Dodges as patrol vehicles, and he swears that they had the 3speed without the fluid coupling. He remembers getting them as special orders through the local Dodge dealer. Interesting guy, he is 92 and a retired Deputy Chief. I have looked everywhere for some evidence that Dodge did produce such vehicles, but haven't found any.

[Jon Robinson]

Yes, they made them, but they are uncommon. I have an engine and transmission from a rusty '49 Chrysler Royal that a friend of mine parted out, and it has no Fluid Drive and a three-speed manual transmission.

The Fluid Drive bell housing is a lot longer than the non-Fluid Drive bell housing. Consequently, the cross-member the bell housing sits on is about seven inches further forward on the non-Fluid Drive models. You could say the non-Fluid Drive cars have a different frame from the Fluid Drive cars. I'm sure this is why they didn't make a lot of them. Imagine how much further in the manufacturing process you'd have to plan for the odd non-Fluid Drive car to have the dry flywheel, short bell housing, and special frame wind up in the same place at the same time on the assembly line.

I just met a guy with an even more rare animal. It's a 1950 DeSoto Deluxe club coupe that does have Fluid Drive but has a three-speed manual transmission instead of the automatic gearbox. So, it's like a 1946-'48 Dodge or a 1939-'40 Chrysler or DeSoto with Fluid Drive. In 1949 and '50, it was easy to get a Dodge with either the manual three-speed or Gyromatic, but in both cases, they all had Fluid Drive unless ordered with a dry clutch.

JON

[Rusty_OToole]

My 1954 Motor Repair Manual lists Dodge 1940-54 without fluid drive, as well as with fluid drive.

Possibly Fluid Drive was an option on the low priced Wayfarer line and standard on the more expensive models?

Update. From a search of Allpar on Fluid Drive

Depending on year, Chrysler offered the Royal, Windsor and DeSoto DeLuxe with Fluid Drive and the normal 3-speed manual. This was also the only way Fluid Drive was offered by Dodge prior to 1949.

So there was a choice of manual trans or self shiftiing trans but supposedly they all came with fluid drive.

They could have built manual trans cars to special order simply by relocating the bolt on crossmember and using clutch, bellhousing and trans from the Plymouth car or Dodge pickup truck. Careful inspection may reveal that the frames were drilled for both crossmember locations.

Also, there were some options available for taxi and police use that were not recorded in the regular literature. Some companies would even build special models for fleet orders, if the order was large enough.

So, it seems to me quite possible that such cars were built.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Jon Robinson]

Hi, Rusty:

I didn't mean to muddy the question about Dodges by talking about the dry clutches on Chryslers and DeSotos. The reason I brought them up was to illustrate how big a difference there is between the frames of the cars that have, or don't have, Fluid Drive.

The cross-members are not bolted in, so they couldn't just put two sets of holes for either type of system. The cross-memebers are welded in, meaning that the cross member has to be installed with the dry clutch in mind way, way early in the manufacturing process if the car was, indeed, destined to have a dry clutch instead of Fluid Drive.

The only cars in that era that I know of that had a bolted-in cross-member are the 1953 cars with the torque converter that shared oil with the engine. Now, I'm NOT sure if the V-8 cars with Fluid Torque in 1951 and '52 had bolted-in cross-members, but I tend to doubt it.

The Dodges would be in the same boat with the Chryslers and DeSotos on the Fluid Drive issue because of the frames.

An awful lot of the 1949-'52 Chrysler and DeSoto sales literature lists the Fluid Drive as standard and the M-6 as optional, but it's really rare to see a car without the M-6, and I think Chrysler was really trying to make a single configuration for economy's sake.

The 1949'-52 Dodges seem to be the only ones that were sincere about the M-6 being truly and easily optional either way. My '49 Dodge Coronet club coupe had the M-6, but it's just as likely to see a '49 Dodge with Fluid Drive. Dodge was the only one to have external badges indicating it. On the 1949 and '50 Dodges, the "Coronet" emblem on the front fenders will say "Gyro-Matic" or "Fluid-Drive." I'd have to look to see if the emblems were the same in 1951 and '52.

JON

[fred]

How about this, my 1947 Canadian Chrysler C38 Coupe, originally came with fluid drive and 3 spd trans.

I now have a regular clutch 3spd trans, 3.73 diff.

The rear engine mount frame had to be moved forward and modded, to fit, but it was not a difficult job.

I did not do this job, my uncle did this in 1983, and sure wish he did not, as I now would have to reverse all of this to get a fluid drive back in this car.

I have the parts, but am not sure I want to do this at this point or not.

Most late 40s and early 50s Canuck Dodges (Plyms in disguise), had mostly all regular clutch and fluid drive, have not seen anything else, not in this part of Canada...

[fred]

Here ya go, come for a virtual ride in my 1947 Chrysler Royal Coupe, L head 6 cylinder engine, 3 spd trans and regular clutch, no fluid drive.

[JACK M]

Looks COLD

[c49er]

Hi, Rusty:

I didn't mean to muddy the question about Dodges by talking about the dry clutches on Chryslers and DeSotos. The reason I brought them up was to illustrate how big a difference there is between the frames of the cars that have, or don't have, Fluid Drive.

The cross-members are not bolted in, so they couldn't just put two sets of holes for either type of system. The cross-memebers are welded in, meaning that the cross member has to be installed with the dry clutch in mind way, way early in the manufacturing process if the car was, indeed, destined to have a dry clutch instead of Fluid Drive.

The only cars in that era that I know of that had a bolted-in cross-member are the 1953 cars with the torque converter that shared oil with the engine. Now, I'm NOT sure if the V-8 cars with Fluid Torque in 1951 and '52 had bolted-in cross-members, but I tend to doubt it.

The Dodges would be in the same boat with the Chryslers and DeSotos on the Fluid Drive issue because of the frames.

An awful lot of the 1949-'52 Chrysler and DeSoto sales literature lists the Fluid Drive as standard and the M-6 as optional, but it's really rare to see a car without the M-6, and I think Chrysler was really trying to make a single configuration for economy's sake.

The 1949'-52 Dodges seem to be the only ones that were sincere about the M-6 being truly and easily optional either way. My '49 Dodge Coronet club coupe had the M-6, but it's just as likely to see a '49 Dodge with Fluid Drive. Dodge was the only one to have external badges indicating it. On the 1949 and '50 Dodges, the "Coronet" emblem on the front fenders will say "Gyro-Matic" or "Fluid-Drive." I'd have to look to see if the emblems were the same in 1951 and '52.

JON

I have a 52 NewYorker with Fluid Torque Drive-it has a bolt in cross member. Over the years I have never seen a dry clutch 46-52 Chrysler-Royal through Imperials! I have looked at worked on/ parted out these old MoPars for nearly 45years! They are very very rare here in the USA to say the least.

[fred]

Looks COLD

It was cold, about 10-15 f, bu no wind, cold and dry....

[1950Dodge]

Jon or Rusty,

I have a 1950 Dodge Coronet with the fluid drive and 3-speed manual. My front fender emblems say "Gyromatic." I think the car was originally a gyromatic but at some point it was replaced with the 3-speed. I believe that for two reasons:

1. The car was heavily undercoated (I am guessing when new from the condition of the undercoat) and the Gyromatic emblem mounting stems and fender bolts are encrusted in the undercoat, hence I believe they are original to the car;

2. My rear axle ratio is 3.90 not 4.1. My shop manual indicates that the 3.90 was furnished with the Gyromatic and not available with the standard. Standard shift ratios were 3.73, 4.1, 4.3, and 4.78. The 3.90 seems to have been supplied with the Gyro only. The normal axle on the D34 with 7.10 tires is 4.1.

Now, one last question for the gurus: How is "gyromatic" pronounced? Is it "gearo-matic" or "jiro-matic (long i)?" I have tried to find the official pronunciation, but have been unable to do so.

Thanks.

[fred]

If it is infact gearo-matic (Gyromatic), that would be Greek, as Gyro in Greek is pronounced Gearo.

Check with a real Expert and Mopar Historian by the name of Bill Watson, he lurks on P15-D24 Homepage , a place you may want to check out. Bill also lurks on here sometimes too, so see if you can send Him a PM.

Bill really is an expert on Mopar History and facts.....

[c49er]

If it is infact gearo-matic (Gyromatic), that would be Greek, as Gyro in Greek is pronounced Gearo.

Check with a real Expert and Mopar Historian by the name of Bill Watson, he lurks on P15-D24 Homepage , a place you may want to check out. Bill also lurks on here sometimes too, so see if you can send Him a PM.

Bill really is an expert on Mopar History and facts.....

Fred,

I also think it is GYRO-not (gear-O) ! We need Bill to set us right! Or is it pronounced "Clunk-O-Matic!

[Rusty_OToole]

I say ji ro as in gyroscope. It isn't a word that comes up in conversation a lot.