hddennis Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Having worked on Model A's, 30's Chevrolets and various other cars with woven lining I thought I'd be able to apply the same materials and techniques to my 1917 Maxwell but find I need clarification on fastening the lining to the bands. On all the cars I mentioned before the lining was drilled, countersunk and tubular rivets were crimped with the heads in the lining. From what I've found in period parts books and surviving brake bands Maxwell used split brass rivets through the bands with the tails split and crimped back into the face of the lining. Was this normal for contracting and expanding band brakes? The lining specs call for 3/16 thick woven material so there isn't much room to sink the rivet tails. Is this an acceptable practice because the brass was soft enough to not damage the drums? If I can find the correct 5/32 X 7/16 brass split rivets should I duplicate what Maxwell did and not worry about the tails contacting the drum? Or should I duplicate the Model A method and have very little wear available before the heads contact the drums?Thanks, Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Use the split rivets. You may find them from an antique car parts supplier. That is how Ford T transmission linings are placed and most likly the same procedure would be used. I have done this on my T and it was fairly easy as the rivit pierces the band and I used a round bar as a backer to roll the split into the lining. practice on some scrap and you will find it to be easy after a while. you may have to use an awl to poke the hole if is is dense lining. make sure you attach the lining tightly. Ask someone with a T to show you how its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 JFranklin,Thanks for the advice. So in your experience the rivets pose no threat to the drum if they contact it?Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Most of the woven lining has metalic wire woven into it. I don't think the rivets pose a problem. On a model T they are used with cotton bands on the brake, low gear, & reverse bands. Anyway how many stops has your car had all these years and the drum is still OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 JFranklin, when you put it that way I have to know it's right! It's just that I thought I knew all I needed to know about brakes and the reversal of these rivets just seemed wrong and went against everything I was taught. Just goes to show you your never too old to learn and usually the way it was done when new is still the best way in most cases.Thanks for the help, Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Richardson Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Howard--A couple thoughts. The band linings on Model T's is flexible and slightly loosely woven. It is cut longer than the bands, then installed by riveting from the ends to the center, while compressing the lining to fit. I don't know if you can do that with your brake material. When a rigid material like wood is used on the bands, it is installed with countersunk rivets, tines out, heads in. My guess is that the orientation of the rivets is going to depend upon the brake band material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thanks for your input Chuck. Just for the heck of it I rounded up all my original bands from 3 different cars and it appears about 2/3 of my bands are factory lined and about a third have been relined and yet all have the heads out and the tines crimped into the lining face. The factory must have had some type of press as I had a band where the lining was missing and the rivets were worn flush and I still had to drive the heads out with a punch because the original crimp had swelled the shaft of the rivet into the band.Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was just looking thru a catalog and stumbled on the rivets you are looking for.The company is Restoration Specialities from Windber, PA.They list 5/32" X 7/16" split rivets in either zinc plate or brass plate. The part numbers are 2264 and 2265 and can be found on page 197 of their printed catalog and also the same page on their pdf catalog on line. They're $.20 each or $16.00 per 100.impala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Wow!!! That is pretty steep for plated rivets. I would not use plated rivets, since they may be too hard and may score your drums. I offer a solid brass split rivet that will not harm your drums and is the size you need. Price: $100 per pack of 25. We use them in our Model T band lining kits. Call me at 518-828-1414 or you can order them from Mac's Auto Parts. They are part number T3422B and he also gets $1.00 per pack. Just count the number of holes in each band and get a few extra in case you break a few. The shipping will be more than the rivets.Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldford Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I see I missed a decimal point. Just to be clear, $1.00 per pack of 25 rivets.Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Frank & Impala thank you both for responding. I had found rivets online and was also worried about the "plated" wording as I also thought they would be steel under the plating and probably more likely to score my drums than the softer brass ones.Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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