The LaCrosse CX

[Guest Dan Cook]

I have been looking at a 2007 LaCrosse on a lot and was wondering about any pro's or con's with these cars. I was thinking of a new Buick but there isn't a Buick dealership within 100 miles of me.

It seems all the lots a hardup to move vehicles. The Lacrosse is going for $12875 with 21,000 miles on it.

[BUICK RACER]

Dan, doesn't sound like a bad deal, I'd offer them a little bit less, check out Kelly Blue Books at kbb.com

[Guest imported_Thriller]

A few weeks ago, we had a 2008 Allure (Canadian version) as a loaner...I don't recall the trim level. The only thing I have to say about it (The Boss drove it more than I did) is that I didn't care for the seats. They seemed too hard. In discussion with our service guy, who picks up and drops off our vehicles, he called them "Chev seats" - not the sort of upscale more plush you would expect in a Buick.

That being said, Suzanne was quite pleased - she found it very quiet as all new Buicks are.

As for the seats, well, we are all different shapes...perhaps they fit your shape better than mine.

[Guest Dan Cook]

I checked KBB a day or two ago and their suggested retail price is $14790 for our area which works out to about a $2000 savings. As for the seats Derek, I only sat in the car for a few minutes and didn't have time for a test drive as I was on my way to the hospital. I recall the seats being leather and feeling comfortable. I plan to stop again Monday for a test drive.

I bought a new 2003 Century and didn't really care for the car. There was a lot of road noise and when the doors were closed they felt light weight and sounded like an old Datson. I guess I was just used to the Cutlass before it.

I'll let you what I decide next week.

Dan

[JohnD1956]

Hi Dan. We love our 06 Lacrosse, which just turned 31K last week. Ours is a CXL, which is hardly different from the CX. Personally I think gas milage could be better, with the car averaging 22 around town and 27 or so on the highway. Also I found that the sound deadening material in the door jambs works well for it's purpose AND for accumulating dirt at the bottom of the front fenders. To fix this I pulled the material back just at the bottom so I could get a hose nozzzle in there and flush the cavity.

I think the nice thing about the Lacrosse is the telescopic steering wheel and the split fold down rear seats, which you won't find on the Lucerne. The telescopic wheel is a major convenience for me. The fold down seats just help haulin large flat objects around. Unfortunately there is a header panel back there and the seats won't fold perfectly flat so getting some things in there is still impossible. But it still helps at times.

Price wise I can't speak. But if you can find the time, look em upon E-Bay. Not to buy one, but to get an idea for the price comfort zone. You might be surprised and motivated to make the dealer an offer he wouldn't refuse.

[Guest Dan Cook]

Hi JD. That's nice to know information for when I go back. 27 mpg highway is what they advertise for the car, I think 23 city. About the same as the Reatta. I can live with that. The Electea gets about 16.

[JohnD1956]

Dan, good luck. Does the car have the bucket seats?

Ours has the bench seat option which folds out and down in the middle to wind up with bucket seats and a mini console. This works best for my wife and I who differ in height by a few inches.

[Guest Dan Cook]

Well, I went in to make a deal on that 2007 LaCrosse and found out once again that the people in dealerships mean what they say but don't say what they mean.

When I first went in last week and looked at the car I got a retail breakdown with all equipment included and the wholesale retail value at the end and their sale price which all looked pretty good until-------

The money discussion came up. Well they wanted me to fill out a loan application and I wanted to know what I would get for my trade-in. I had already checked everything on KBB and I knew I wanted at least $1500 but said $2000-2500 when asked.

The bottom line is, the manager came out and said if I could sell that car for 3500 would I take it so I said sure. So then they came out with a whole different set of figures (maybe I should be in Chicago) showing their car would sell $1500 more than their original retail value and I told them that isn't right. They marked up the wholesale value by over $1600 and said they were taking a $3000 loss and would give me $500 for my trade-in so I would getting $3500 for it.

Now if that doesn't sound like a crock of s---. I pulled out the original breakdown from last week and they said it was a mistake, the new guy I first talked to screwed up. Well, you all know how that goes. And as I was getting ready to leave they wanted to know what they could do to get me to buy the car.

I can't put my responce here.

What I didn't mention is this is a respected Chevy-Honda dealership. It used to be Chevy and GM cars only but going to mostly Hondas and other foriegns relates to another thread in the forums.

I will buy a new or newer Buick but not there and I'm sure not in Klamath Falls as there isn't a buick dealership in town. You would think when times are tough like they are now these places would welcome costomers rather than trying to screw them. They don't put a low price on a car without still making a profit.

Sorry for the rant, but I can still afford to walk out of these places and have more money in my wallet.

[Guest Dan Cook]

Just my luck. When I get POed I get it in here twice.

[Barney Eaton]

You can erase a post by going to edit.

[Reatta Man]

Dan,

Don't worry about the rant. We have all dealt with those kind of sales people.

Wait 30 days, and after the car is still there, go back and make an offer; but drop your offer by $500. If they remember you and remind you of your higher offer, just tell them, "hey, your car has been sitting here 30 days; that is how much it has depreciated while you were busy trying to screw me over on the first deal."

If you can, go in on the last business day of the month and see if their attitude improves......

Also, don't be afraid to check the internet. I have flown 300-1,000 miles one way to pick up a car and drive it home when I saved a couple more thousand dollars from what the car I wanted was selling for locally. And just remember, CARFAX, while not perfect, takes much of the danger out of shopping for a car over a long distance. If you find another Buick with that kind of mileage, just remember that it is still in the new Buick warranty until 50K miles, and you can get it serviced at ANY GM dealer.

Wouldn't it be ironic if you found the car you wanted somewhere else, and took it back to the Chevy dealer for warranty work? You could wander around the showroom, and when the sleazeball salesman spots you and asks if you are now ready to buy that car, you can tell him no, you bought one somewhere else for less money and you are just using his service department for any free warranty work or oil changes.

Keep in mind if you get the chance to do that, you had better do it the first chance you get. Contrary to popular (misconception) belief, Buicks don't NEED warranty work very often.

Joe

[Guest Dan Cook]

Thanks for the advice Joe. I had planned on going back later and I'm sure the car will still be there. The first salesman that had the day off when I went back called yesterday to find out what the probelm was. He didn't know how I came up with such a low price. Well I saved the print out he gave me the first day I went in. I told him if the are going to lie they need to keep their stories straight.

They were telling me how great business is but the three times I was in there I was the only customer as far as I could see. Also, in the paper this morning there is another major dealership going out of business in Klamath Falls.

I'll just wait and watch for a while and if the Chevy place starts to go under I can probably get an even better deal.

[Guest Reatta1]

Dan, I know it's a bit of a trip from Dorris, but have you checked out Murray & Holt in Bend, where we had the cruise in last summer? Before making the trip you could always browse the web site. (www.murrayandholt.com) I would expect you would get better treatment there. Specially if you mention the cruise in and being a BCA and Reatta club member.

Jim

[West Peterson]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reatta Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could wander around the showroom, and when the sleazeball salesman spots you and asks if you are now ready to buy that car, you can tell him no, you bought one somewhere else for less money and you are just using his service department for any free warranty work or oil changes

Joe </div></div>

Bad advice. Never, never do anything like this to someone who is servicing you. Just as you would (should) never [censored] off your waitress/waiter, never antagonize your car mechanic (or the front person).

[Guest Dan Cook]

Actually Jim, I forgot about Murry & Holt up there. I'll take a look at there web site later today.

Bend is only about 3 hours away. Had my wife up there a couple of times recently to see a doctor.

Dan

[Guest Dan Cook]

If I did something like I wouldn't have the car serviced there anyway. The only times I have ever used dealership services is when something is free.

Dan

[Guest Dan Cook]

It looks like that Chevy dealer ship is on a short string too. I got a sales flyer in the mail today with 30+% savings on their cars and they need to reduce inventory to 50% within two weeks.

I know it's just another ploy to attract customers but I'll wait until just before this new sale is over and go back in.

[Bill Tatro]

Dan: While checking things on the aaca forums for Bill (I am the significant other) I Just happened onto your Lacrosse question as I have one myself: 2006 CXL which I love EXCEPT for all the problems I have had with the rotors from the start...this car has 41K, and I live at a high altitude (high for MA anyway) and I am up and down the mountain daily BUT...I downshift to 3rd to keep from free coasting, which gets pretty fast and don't feel like I am overly harsh on brakes (even though I am a female). I pay very close attention to everything with this car, as it is my baby...

Front rotors have been (supposedly) turned 3X and replaced the last time

Rear rotors turned last time

Have also had a faulty tie-rod replaced

Had a problem right away with the On-star - all warranty, but makes me think I had better get rid of it before 50K...hate to pass on bad info as this car may have just been on the assembly line on the wrong day of the week...

If you go back to look at that CX, I would try Carfax myself...Good Luck

Robin

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Tatro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you go back to look at that CX, I would try Carfax myself...Good Luck

Robin

</div></div>

Robin,

I'm not going to say Carfax is a bad idea, but the other night I was watching a consumer watchdog type of show...they were looking at used cars and the dealers get Carfax reports showing accident free. The show didn't name the competitor, but there was a competitor to Carfax that listed frame damage and other issues on a number of vehicles that Carfax missed.

Again, nothing wrong with Carfax, it is just that the peace of mind from checking it may be false.

[Guest Reatta1]

The problem with carfax, as I learned through experience, is that there are a huge number of cars that have been in accidents but the information was never registered with carfax. When I bought my 93 Regal, the dealer pulled a carfax report on it and it showed no problems and no accidents. Several years later some paint on the door around the drivers mirror stated peeling and you could definitely see that it had been repaired and repainted. I would not trust a clear carfax report solely. I would have the car checked thoroughly by an independent shop if I had any misgivings at all about it.

[JohnD1956]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Tatro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dan: .. all the problems I have had with the rotors from the start...this car has 41K, and I live at a high altitude (high for MA anyway)...Front rotors have been (supposedly) turned 3X and replaced the last time. Rear rotors turned last time

..Good Luck

Robin

</div></div>

Interesting comment Robin. We have the pulsing in our 06 CXL's front rotors too, and we now have 32K on the car, BUT I would not let them turn the rotors. Every time you turn them, they get skinnier, and more susceptible to warpage because they will overheat faster. In our case I wanted the dealer to install new rotors but they wanted to turn them and install new brake pads. I decided to forgo the work because in my humble opinion, a turned rotor is ruined, especially in a situation such as you describe.

And now for a quick Hijack of this thread... This is one reason GM is in such a state today. These dealers know that turning the rotors is BS. Now look at you, back 4 times for what should have been a one time repair which would have made you, the customer, happy. Instead, now you're thinking of dumping the car before 50K, and chances are, unless you're a Buick enthusiast, you're going to think long and hard about how the last Buick did not give you satisfactory service. I sure wish someone at the Buick Marketing Group would pull the cotton out of their noses so they can smell the smoke of a distant fire!

Now back to the topic of this thread.

[Guest Dan Cook]

Robin; Thanks for the information, I'll definately check this out again if I go back. I haven't been back for a week and a half but I know they still have the car because the salesman has called four times. The fact is, I haven't been in the forum for a week.

When I drove the LaCrosse I didn't notice anything unusual about with the brakes or the steering. I drove it through town and on the hiway. The car is still under factory warranty plus the dealerships three month warranty. Also comes with lifetime oil changes. The problem there will the warranty be any good if GM fails?

I also live at a high altitude (4250 ft). This is a high desert valley and the only way in or out is over a fairly steep hill. I think about a 6% down grade on each side. Coming south down hill into our little town the speed limit goes from 65 to 40 right at the bottom of the hill and a sharp right curve. You can imagine how many people who aren't used the this hiway are standing on their brakes.

Anyway, I have used the same machanic for nearly 20 years so I will take the car to him if I get serious about it again. Thanks,

Dan

[RShepherd]

I have an 85 year old friend who no longer drives, but he keeps a car for his family and me to drive him in. He has had two '08 La Crosse CXL's; the first one got salt water in it during Hurricane Ike and was replaced with one just like it. For the most part, I like driving it. The old, trusty 3800 engine is smooth and has good low-end toque, the instrument panel is well laid out and is easy to read at night. Its has several nice features like dual-zone automatic climate control,

XM Sirius radio, On-Star, etc. The ride is smooth over most roads, but gets a little jerky on certain surfaces, the steering is a little vague, and despite Buick "Quiet Tuning", it has a lot of road noise and the seats could be a little softer. Still, for about $22,000.00 in today's market, it's a nice car and a good value if you plan on keeping it for several years; not so much if you trade often due to steep depreciation. BTW, I think they ruined the front end on the '08's and '09 with that large, gaudy, chrome grill; the understated one on the '05-'07 models looks much better.

[Guest Dan Cook]

I have decided to wait and go over the Mountain to Medford, Oregon where there is a Buick dealership. At least there I will get a selection and might find something I like better. I don't seem to trust the Chevy dealership in Klamath Falls or maybe it's just the salesmen.

Dan

[Guest 63Stude]

If you look at GM's warranty, it says that brake "linings and pads" are not covered, but doesn't mention rotors. My dealer replaced all four rotors on my Uplander minivan at 41K, no charge. And I never buy an extended warranty.

I think it's pretty bad when the customer knows more about the 3/36 basic warranty than the Service Manager.

Bill

[JohnD1956]

Bill, I confess, I did not fully read my warranty book. I did not know that pads were exempt. I should have done my homework before going to the dealer.

My beef with the dealer was twofold. Primarilly, when rotors are warped, they should be replaced, not turned. Secondarilly, When they tried to get me to pay for new pads by telling me mine were worn to 3mm, I thought they were trying to take advantage of me. This occurred with only 29K on the car. To me, if the pads were that thin, with that few miles, and the rotors were warped, then they should have thrown on a free new set and replaced the rotors under warranty. I called NAPA, and a set of pads could be had for $48.00 I believe ( maybe less). I did not ask, however, how much the dealer wanted for the pads so I don't know. I was just seeing stars at the moment and told them to do nothing.

But even if they only wanted $48.00 for the pads, this, IMHO, this is where GM is literally shooting itself in the foot. If you successfully retail a car out for $26K ( to a repeat customer by the way) and within 3 years of minimal driving it needs a $48.00 set of brake pads ( and lets be honest, do you really think GM pays $48.00 for a set of front pads?) then why would you fail to throw them on there and keep the customer happy?

Whats more though is now we see apparently several people are having the same problem. Who knows how many people uninvolved in this thread are experiencing this problem? If you advertise you sell quality cars, shouldn't someone be looking into what's going wrong as opposed to lawyers simply excluding the very item wearing out prematurely?

Sorry for the 2nd hijack of this thread guys.

[Reatta Man]

John,

I know we are a little off track, but one more post before we "return you to your regularly scheduled program."

A car that wears down pads in 29K miles probably has sticking calipers. Considering many companies have gone to plastic pistons in the calipers, I would have those checked.

I can see GM or any other company not covering brake pads; some people rest their foot on the pedal, or use the brakes at every possible occasion (those people are usually ahead of me as I am driving to work.) With that in mind, some people could go 70-100K on a set of front pads; others wear them out at 20K. But, when there are other problems (rotors) it would seem prudent to replace the pads as a good will measure, as well as to protect the new rotors. Many brake pads today are semi-metallic, and the scrap iron they make the pads with CAN have a hard spot that wears down the rotors.

Joe

[Guest Dan Cook]

Hey guys, don't worry about getting off track here, I'm taking notes. If and when I go looking for a new car I'll have a little more fire power to throw at a salesman.

If I can't find anything that I am satisfied with I might look at one of Mr. Earl's new 54's.

[Guest Reatta1]

Seems to me if there is a building body of evidence of this as a problem, a recall would be in order. Maybe they need to be nudged a bit in that direction.

[JohnD1956]

Joe, I can assure you, I am not one of those people ahead of you while driving to work. I use my 78 wagon for that. But chances are I do use the brakes too much on that LaCrosse.

I plan to wait till the weather warms up and replace the pads and rotors myself. Then if something goes wrong I know who to blame. But I still say it's penny wise and pound foolish to deny a set of brake pads in a situation like this, and [censored] off a customer who has bought more than one new Buick.

[JohnD1956]

That the ...I've been censored...Well,hopefully you get the drift of my post.

[Guest Dan Cook]

JD, aren't you afraid that replacing the brakes yourself will void your warranty even though it isn't that good. It might be a better idea to let the dealership replace your brakes no matter how many times you go back, then when your warranty is up, do the brakes yourself if need be.

Just a thought.

Dan

[JohnD1956]

I'm not afraid of that Dan. Worst that can happen is they would refuse to fix anything that went wrong with them under warranty, and they essentially already did that.

PS: I just got a set of "Mr. Goodwrench" coupons for the dealership. Imagine, they have a special for $115.00 on a disc brake job, per axle, which always makes me wonder, is that times two ( front and back)? or times three ( each axle in front, one in back? Or, on this car, times four, since it has independent rear suspension?

[Reatta Man]

John,

I don't blame you. One suggestion: buy higher priced rotors and pads with a lifetime warranty!

My 2000 Ultra goes through front pads in about 35-40K miles. And, the rotors have warped more than once. One mechanic I know says it has to do with going away from asbestos to semi-metallic pads. Whatever the reason, I went to ceramic brake pads from Pep Boys (less dust on the alloy wheels) and lifetime Raybestos rotors from O'Reilly Auto Parts. I don't turn the rotors any more; just take the old ones and my receipt back to O'Reilly's, then go by Pep Boys for new (free) pads.

Good luck with your car!

Joe

[Guest bkazmer]

since many cars have semi-metallic pads and do not require either 40 k pad replacements or rotor replacement, I'd say the purchasing dept played engineer someplace here (again), or there is not enough brake area in the design.

[JohnD1956]

Good point. NAPA has lifetime warranty parts for this. It may be worth the money since this may be my last new car ever and I intend to keep this for a few hundred thousand miles more.

[Guest Reatta1]

I'd like to put in my two pennies worth here about lifetime warranties. You just can't go wrong with them. I did that with shocks on my 66 convertible at Midas Muffler many, many years ago. I think they figured I would never be back for having sold the car first. Not gonna happen. I did take it back and they ended up having to special order the shocks. Zero cost to me for the entire job, parts and labor. They'll have to do it again in the future. Have done the same with brakes on a car I had long term. If memory serves, I put three more sets of pads on that car, for free, before I got rid of it. Just make sure that in the case of parts you aren't installing yopurself you read the fine print to make sure labor is included.

[Guest Dan Cook]

Well, you all have inspired me to hold off on buying anything right now but instead to hold out for that special deal that I just won't be able to pass up and I'm sure one will come along with the way the economy is going. Getting cash seems to be a big incentive to most of these companies and people too.

The four vehicles I have left are all under 100,000 miles and all 20+ years old and all in top shape. No need to get in a hurry to change. One will need a new AC compressor soon when the weather warms up and I know the conversion isn't cheap but when looking at new cars converting to R-134 would amount to about three car payments.

Actually, instead of buying a new car now, I have been giving thought to investing in a decent garage. Now that the cost of materials are down and construction companies are crying for work around here, I might be money ahead to do that now and look at cars later.

Dan