Correct generator for a 733

[34PackardRoadsta]

Dear Folks,

First of all, if y'all are sick of me, then please tell me to take a break for awhile!

Second, it has come to my attention (from a side comment by Packin31) that I might not have the correct generator. I also have checked my owners manual, and it certainly seems like it might be different. Finally, I can't read the label on the side!

So, anybody know what generator I have (see attached pict). Oh, and I know the cut-out is wrong. I already have a replacement.

As always, thanks!

Tom

[Tom M]

Tom,

First off I for one am not sick of your post. This is one place we all can learn from one an other.

For your generator I have no clue if that one is original or not.

I have some pictures of my posted here

Generator

[34PackardRoadsta]

Tom,

Thanks for the link. Pretty different, except for the oval manufactures tag!

Tom

[Owen_Dyneto]

Looks like an Owen-Dyneto CO-1240 but could be a CO-1177. Amperage output is higher on the 1240 and its original maker's tag would be red, not black. Either of these would be correct for 1934 Eight and Super Eight, and perhaps very late 1933s, though they are stated to be C0-1130. I believe the correct one for your 733 should be a CL-896 which has a different brush cover/end cap assembly, more like the starter motor.

[1935Packard]

"First of all, if y'all are sick of me, then please tell me to take a break for awhile!"

To the contrary, I always enjoy learning from these threads even though I have no idea what the answers are.

[Earl B.]

If we don't ask questions, you don't learn anything...and since many years of Packards are very similar, we still learn, even when it's not our particular year of car...keep asking!!! B

[34PackardRoadsta]

David,

Thanks for the info. I thought the gen looked right only because it looks very close to the one on my 34.

OK, I am assuming then that the output is different, etc.? I also am assuming that is why the cut-out is different. Correct?

Thanks,

Tom

[Restorer32]

Nice to see more pre-war Packard posts.

[Owen_Dyneto]

The "red label" generator has the higher output by 5 amps and was introduced mid-1934 as a response to the increasing popularity of radio equipment.

The cutout/regulator for the 34 generator was Owen-Dyneto 21262, also used on Eights and Super Eights from 1933 to 1936. O-D 20530 was used prior to that at least back to 1931, I believe the 726/733 used O-D 20100.

[34PackardRoadsta]

OK, so I just installed the cut-out/regulator for the correct generator (not the one I have). Now I get a big current draw when engine is not running (greater than 15 amps) but I get charging of 10 or more amps (up to 15 at high rpm) when I increase engine speed. With the old cutout (again, not stock for either gen - probably for a model T) I would get a little current draw if the points were closed, 0 if points open, but never much charge (as indicated on dash ammeter).

So, am I screwing up a fine 1934 generator by using the wrong cut-out? And, how the hell do I find a correct gen?

OK, a bit of frustration creeping out. My apologies. It is just that so much of this car is original, but because it was a daily driver until late 1960 (albeit over apparently very short distances) it has these weird modifications that make figuring out what is wrong a little tough.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers,

Tom

[Guest imported_Speedster]

It's my understanding that the earlier gens, that had an adjustable brush, uses a different Cutout than the later ones, like the one pictured, that needed a simple regulator not the simple cutout relay. So if you get a gen with adjustable brush, you also need to get the cutout in rectangle can, not the round one. I don't think using the wrong one will damage the gen, but it just won't charge the battery properly. If getting battery drain, when engine is not running, I'd think the cutout is just not operating properly (relay contacts stuck).

I permanantly mounted a +/- Amp meter on frame rail next to the gen, in series with the cutout, to determine when, direction and how much current is flowing, on both my '29s, since I've found that cutout relays are Very Unreliable (mainly due to heat and age).

The adjustable 3rd brush in the gen is the main charging adjustment but I don't think the gen model you have has that adjustment, but not sure.

[tbirdman]

Speedster,

Can you explain how the cutout works?

Thanks

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The ignition Switch off, current discharge is usually caused by burnt contacts in the relay. This can be fixed by removing the cover and cleaning them with a small file, the same as you would the dist contact points.

The 3rd brush is adjusted for about 10 amps, with engine at a high Idle.

The cutout relay has 2 coil windings, instead of 1 like normal relays. One coil, activated by the generator, closes the contacts, allowing current to flow to battery. Then when the battery gets to full charge, the battery causes enough current to flow thru the 2nd coil, deactivating (opening) the contacts. So when the battery gets to full charge and the engine is running, the relay can be opening and closing very often, causing arcing and burning of the contacts. This arcing can be decreased some by increasing the output current, to say 12.amps, but that increases the size of the arc some. So it's a 'balancing act', adjusting the 3rd brush to the optimum current level.

I found that it's easier to make that adjustment, if you have a Low battery in the car and then start it with another jumped battery. That way the cutout will stay closed while you are making the adjustment and you get a constant current reading on the amp meter.

The Amp meter mounted next to gen allows for easier adjustment also, but you can have someone else watch the dash Amp gauge while you are adjusting the 3rd brush.

[34PackardRoadsta]

Rick,

Thanks again for the help. The cut-out I now have is new, and is correct for the original gen, so I don't imagine the relay is stuck. But I will look, and I will also take my amp meter and see what is happening.

I don't think the gen from a 34 has a 3rd brush, but I will check.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the gen from a 34 has a 3rd brush, but I will check. </div></div>

Yes, I think you are correct, so if the cutout you have is for a gen with 3rd brush, you will probably need to get a Regulator designed for the '34 gen (if you don't get a 3rd brush gen).

I'm not familiar with the '34, so I don't know anything about the regulator needed, to work with that gen, but it's probably more like the one used in my '37, which also has a current control relay and resistive-load, inside the regulator.

[Owen_Dyneto]

Yes, the correct 34 generator is of the 3rd brush type. And the full voltage/amperage control did not come along until 1937 in the senior cars, though I think the 120 had it one year earlier. The 34 type generator control, Owen Dyneto 21262, is described quite well in the 1934 issue of the Standard Auyto-Electrician's Manual and if you send me a PM with your email, I'll scan and send to you.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, the correct 34 generator is of the 3rd brush type. And the full voltage/amperage control did not come along until 1937 in the senior cars, </div></div>

Thanks Owen, I couldn't remember.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Here's an original type Cutout relay, for '30 3-brush generator (with rectangle shaped cover):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1930s-Gen...1QQcmdZViewItem