2009 BCA National Meet

[Guest BJM]

I did read the post regarding the 2009 National meet location. I'm not trying to be controversial but what's going on? It would be nice to receive some clarity on it from board members. Is there any merit to what was stated?

Is it going to be a joint effort from the local chapters out there? Or as the poster stated, did the other chapters not want any part of it?

[jscheib]

Just my two cents, but whoever the principals of the chapters there should be voicing their opinions directly to the BOD first. And hopefully resolve the issues. In turn, the BOD should be keeping us (all members) posted (preferable more promptly through this forum, and eventually through the Bugle or letters to the chapters. Now that the controversy is "public" - at least for those that read the earlier post before it was deleted, but after Bill responded, it is going to be a major issue for a lot of people. I think the BOD is doing the best they can when no chapters are apparently willing to organize a National meet. I think we run the risk of not having a judged National meet every year except the 5 year Flint bash.

Colorado will be a great venue and let's hope it comes off as indicated.

Again, just my quick thoughts on the situation.

John

[serb]

Now you have my interest peaked. Whas up ya'll!

Stevo

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Serb I happened to read the post before it was deleted and it is some very sad news regarding the 09 Nationals possibly not being held in Colorado as previously announced. I assume whoever pulled the post is going to post the whyfor and issue a proper and more "official" statement.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

I read the earlier post. (I guess it got deleted... no surprise it seemed pretty confrontational). Near as I can tell the poster stated that there was some major disagreement over the 09 national in Colorado Springs. If I got the gist correctly.... none of the chapters in that area wanted to hold the 09 national.According to the poster one chapter (Pikes Peak I believe it was) felt as if they were having the national shoved down their throats and that a person was put in charge of the national who apparently did not speak for Pikes Peak.

When I read the responses there was only one from Bill Stoneburg. And it stated that there were people who didnt want the show to go on, but that regardless the 09 national was still on for Colorado Springs.

I didnt see anything after that.

Dan

[serb]

Thanks for the info, it is all news to me since I have not had a lot of time lately to read the different forums. I thought I retired 5 1/2 years ago but now I am busier than ever, and it is not all for my enjoyment.

Stevo

[The Old Guy]

John

I am not sure where you got the idea that there would be a national meet in Flint every five years. It was discussed, but never confirmed!

[BUICK RACER]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Old Guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John

I am not sure where you got the idea that there would be a national meet in Flint every five years. It was discussed, but never confirmed! </div></div>

What the OLD GUY said, we're going to be tired after next year as our youngest member that does anything, will almost be 50 by then.

I was asked to pull the post from Gene this morning as it has incorrect information. Hopefully someone of BCA stature/Board of Directors will get on here and confirm that the BCA Nats in 2009 is still scheduled for Colorado Springs!

[Guest BJM]

Roberta,

I thought you were, like 35 years old and you do something for the Flint area BCAers. This forum has quite a few lookers and a few faithful that comment a lot, but it would be nice to get a nice cross section of the membership across the country on all subjects. Having more then one chapter pitch in seems to be the recipe for better results.

[BUICK RACER]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BJM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roberta,

I thought you were, like 35 years old and you do something for the Flint area BCAers. This forum has quite a few lookers and a few faithful that comment a lot, but it would be nice to get a nice cross section of the membership across the country on all subjects. Having more then one chapter pitch in seems to be the recipe for better results.

</div></div>

I wish I was like 35, we have support from the Southeast Michigan Chapter, the Niagara Frontier in NY, Central Michigan Chapter, West Michigan Chapter for anything they can do to help out in Flint next year, so we are not without support, that's for sure, it's just deciding what they can do to help. The biggest deal is parking the show cars and getting them in some sort of organized layout, that makes it easy for in and out as they need, and make it organized for folks to not miss a look see of all the cars on display. I would like to see the oldest cars displayed together in front of the Sloan Museum. And my counterparts agree with that. And then they think that we should just let the rest '20 on up park wherever at the Cultural Center, I would personally like to see the cars in year order, yes, this will be a feat that we will have to map out, but it would be better than by Buick Club Judging classes, that split years up. I have some thoughts on how to plan to place the years together, and make it a roving tour by year, it'll be a walk but will make sense when you get there. Any other thoughts, are of course, welcome!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Sigh.

[NTX5467]

After the original post, I hadn't worried about the 2009 meet as I suspected more details would be forthcoming as they were more finalized.

I recall it has been talked about the Buicktown Chapter having a steady "every 5 year plan" plan situation, but as with anything of that nature, "the body" has to be willing to do those things. I believe it would be neat if they'd do that, but I also know that after a few times, the chapter's regulars would become older and less motivated to do it, plus BCA members might get the "been there, done that" orientation so attendance might fall off after a few times. Right now, I think many of us are still "up" on returning to Flint in 2008, though. Perhaps it'll always be an "up" situation to have a reason to return to the Birthplace of Buick (and GM), not to mention a reason to return to the one part of the country that is highly steeped in automotive lore and history and current-day happenings?

I suspect the only "controversy" in the 2009 meet is that it might not be fully finalized at this point in time. That there's a possibility it might not be in CO, possibly?

I suspect that we might know more by the end of the year, but that's just my gut suspicion . . .

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

We (PGH Tri-Shields chapter) had just, and I mean just started to talk about trying to do something in 09 when it was announced about Colorado. Although our plan was not to hold it locally we were going to try to do something with another chapter. There is also a certain animosity between chapters here too so we were looking for a chapter in another part of the state to team up with. We hadnt even contacted the other chapter to see if they were interested, who knows they may not have even wanted to do it. We never got that far. Once Colorado was announced we shelved our plans. Now Im kind of curious to see what happens here. I know I wasnt planning on attending Colorado its too far away for someone who doesnt like to fly, but I do hope that something gets worked out here. It would be a shame not to have a national in 2009

Dan

[Guest BJM]

Dan,

As it goes, you might consider the 2010 meet. As I understand it, you can never have enough time for planning. It's too bad that there are problems between chapters. I know that's not the case everywhere.

I think with a Colorado meet in 2009, a swing back east is a great idea. and to Roberta's point -look how many chapters have pledged volunteer assistance in 2008. That is what is going to make the difference.

As a voluntary organization, it's too bad they BOD can't, I don't know, mandate a rule that other close-by chapters assist.

[JohnD1956]

In my opinion, the BCA should not have to mandate any Chapters work together. I think the BCA needs to back up a bit and find out why Chapters do not want to, or cannot possibly undertake such an event.

It is a lot of work, but that just cannot be the reason no one wants to take this on. There might be several more reasons. Perhaps, like in this corner of the USA, the weather makes such a venture a potential diaster. In order to ensure weather is of little impact, you need a venue with sufficient indoor space available on a moments notice, and that is a very expensive gamble.

Then there's the awards banquet. Another scary outlay in the event people do not show up. Lets add the uncertainty of gasoline supply and the high cost per gallon. Our chapter members just nmade a 450 mile tour this past weekend and it was over $80.00 in gasoline alone. This runs the potential of ruining a national meet.

Then there's several job details, such as security. Not many members step up to volunteer for this, but it is an essential part of the event. The hospitality suite is another big effort. Establishing tours and determining transportation another labor intensive project.

Sometime members of the local chapter can't assist for whatever reason, and this relegates the tasks to a smaller percentage of the Chapter.

It's important to treat those attending as guests, but we are a club, and how many times have we showed up at a national or a regional and asked what if anything we could do, and I berate myself for failing to do the same several times.

In addition there are several BCa mandates out there already. Yes, I am sure these are there to ensure a smooth running meet, but personally speaking, some of these need to examined and revised to make them less demanding and more palatable.

One thing is obvious to me, and that is this club on a whole survives on the work of the Chapters. And ultimately a chapter takes on this type of event for two reasons, first is the ability to say I've done my part for the club, the second is to improve the bottom line of the Chapter. Some of the rules requires such an outlay that the 2nd rule becomes a burden instead of a pleasure, and who wants to get into a situation where 40 members of the club are supporting the event for the several hundred that attend? Even though it almost never turns out that way, no chapter director would want to be put in the position of causing a financial disaster for their chapter.

So what's the solutions?

First it is the club members option to join a local chapter or not, and it would be helpful if more people did join and provide assistance on all projects.

The BCA needs to take a look at the rules and determine just how they can help the chapters more directly. Not just imposing rules but making decisions that help the Chapters exist. For example, there was a recent proposal to send Buick Bugles to Buick dealers who sponsored a Chapter. I don't think in terms of financial committment this was a huge imposition but it was not accepted. I know our Buick dealer loved the magazine. Imagine if he started to advertise in it and other sponsor dealerships saw that, they might too.

Members need to make a committment to a meet way in advance. So many people it seems wants to wait to see if the weather is going to be nice, but the fact is it's gonna rain. Meanwhile the Chapter who is working so hard cannot count on the wannabes, they need our committment.

The awards are a big thing. Even though most nationals are money makers for a local chapter, the awards are a huge expense. Without committment from those who will attend, there is no way to establish award supplies. This is an issue that must be addressed. Who wants to win an incomplete award?

I'm sorry to be so long winded, but I hope this will lead to more productive discussion and some changes to the BCA that will ensure its growth in the future.

JD

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Well we did do a nice regional in 2004 that had many of the features of a National....... including lousy weather. And using that as a guideline we could probably do it ourselves. However what we had planned was not being held in the Pittsburgh area but in another part of the state. And none of us felt it would be appropriate to just barge into another part of the state and say this is where we are holding our national. We wanted to approach the chapter in that area ...Im not even sure which chapter that would be. But the plan was to approach them ... show them what we had planned , explain what needed to be done and ask them if they wanted to go in on it with us. If they did .... Boom National in PA , if they didnt , then the plan was to ask for thier permission to do it without them and then if they still didnt approve to just drop the idea. Weve already got one group that considers our chapter to be Satan freshly risen from hell ... we dont need 2.

We may be looking a little farther into it as what we had planned would be unique for a BCA meet, and really not all that difficult to pull off all things considered.

2010? Well maybe , Ill have to being it up to the powers that be in my chapter... if it works ... it may just be a very memorable meet.

Dan

[NTX5467]

Dan, many good comments. While the financial issues can be a really big issue at the chapter level, they can usually be worked through pretty well. Sure, it's scary at first, but when you consider that you don't have to put up ALL of the money up front, but more sequentially as the meet nears (AND you've received pre-registrations by that time!), much of the financial fear factor can diminish. Still, you HAVE to keep a tight control on costs and how much revenue they will generate.

The people "things" are important too--staffing of the meet AND the meet attendees (and having sufficient knowledgeable staffing to accomodate their needs). This is where some of the other regional chapters can come into play, but perhaps not all of them would want to assist while others might. Having a proposed "work schedule" of how many will be at what place when and then when they'll rotate out for a new group to come in, for example, would be good to have up front.

Yet, from my perspective, the most daunting challenge is finding a venue that can support the numbers of attendees, their cars, the banquet, the various meetings which will take place at the meet (some at the same time!), and the combination of indoor and outdoor swap meets . . . at a host hotel that can do all of this as "one stop shopping" sort of things. THAT is the challenge, plus a host hotel with lower-priced lodging available nearby, if desired.

When we were getting locations scouted for our 1996 meet (about THREE years out!), we discovered that where we suspected there would be some good places were not nearly big enough to hold even the banquet, much less other parts of the meet. We ended up getting bids from various Convention & Visitor Bureaus, considering each one, and then the chapter voted on them after the presentations (similar in concept to how the BCA makes their determinations in this area).

So, once you find suitable host hotel accomdations and can work from there, then the issue of tours and other diversions for the attendees can be considered (in that area, or nearby). This can make the lodging costs a little higher as you'll probably end up in "a destination" area rather than an area where lodging prices are not quite so seasonal in nature. It also helps to network with other regional car clubs who have hosted regional and national level meets in the proposed area. Sometimes, the things you might not think twice about are the very things a visitor to that area would want to see or do--as we found out. Of course, after you get the negotiated quote from the host hotel for the contract, you'll also have to consider the additional taxes and fees which guests there will pay in addition to the room rate (bed taxes, etc.). In some cases, some of those taxes can be applied to buy-down the cost of a banquet facility or other facilities to be used for the meet (where the CVB people can come into play, big-time).

Fuel prices can be an issue, but hopefully they can be planned and saved for rather than being an "immediate" additional expense. Everybody has their own tolerance level on this, but it seems that those who remember 15 cent/gallon regular leaded gas are more sensitve to this than someone who remembers $1.00/gallon regular unleaded fuel in their childhood. Something of a generational point-of-reference situation, possibly.

Doing a larger regional show is somewhat similar to doing a national meet, but for the national meet things can become more intense as you plan for more days of visitors and keeping them occupied (tours and such). Not to forget the additional financial outlays for the national meet, either, as the time of the meet nears.

So, when you shop your proposed venues, you have to look at not only the allure of the region and reasons a BCA member might want to attend the meet (based on these things), but also consider the cost of the banquet meal, judges breakfast, cost of the rooms, possible cost of parking spaces at some locations(!!) to accomodate meet attendees and such, plus other things you might not consider at first.

If I could wave a magic Tri-Shield baton and mandate that ALL BCA chapters could "get along together", I WOULD do that. Unfortunately, I'm not empowered with those capabilities, so Y'ALL will have to work on that YOURSELVES--period. At some point in time, Y'ALL will have to shake hands rather than (allegedly) "swappin' paint", WHENEVER that might happen (hopefully sooner than later!) remains to be seen. Be that as it may.

Nor should the "barging in" orientation be operative, either, with respect to other chapters in your geographic area to host a BCA National Meet. It HAS to be a shared or "community effort", if it can be. It NEEDS to be mutually beneficial for all involved, too. Sure, one chapter might be the lead chapter with other chapters helping in designated areas, but it should be an "US together" situation rather than a "WE ourselves" situation, if possible. Still, you'll need to investigate the target areas for the meet FIRST and then go from there.

The prevailing orientation of having BCA National Meets (and all activities) at a host hotel can and will affect which chapters are capable of having meets in their own local area. Not all areas of this country have hotel venues which can support that kind of activities to the magnitude of a BCA National Meet. Some can and have done well for smaller marque meets, but a BCA National Meet has become a "really big shew" and will become moreso in the future, I suspect. This can be dependent upon the proposed venue of the event, but some parts of the country can accomodate that orientation better than others can, by observation.

Once you narrow your targeted search for venues, then you'll have to look at the other factors (banquet choices and costs, etc.) to determine which is the best total deal and one that will be the best revenue generator for the host chapter(s). And THIS is where some of the judgment calls come into play! Plus a conservative estimate of the total people, cars, and vendors to attend, but a conservative estimate which can be expanded as things might progress to viably and easily accomodate more people than initially planned for.

If you look at the "Planning a BCA National Meet" link on the front page, you'll find a pretty good document there to go over and consider. At the end, there's a pretty decent listing of a knowledge base upon whom you might call upon for mentoring information. Of course, being in contact with Mike and Nancy at the BCA National Office is very good too!

Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467

[BUICK RACER]

BCA President Bill Darrow's reply:

Dear Gene High,

I would like to clarify the record and set forth what actually occurred at the Seattle National board meeting, since you were not in attendance.

Frank Lyle approached the Board prior to the board meeting and asked if he could make a presentation for the opportunity to form a small group of BCA members from Colorado to host the 2009 National Meet in Colorado Springs. His presentation was well accepted by the National Board and was unanimously approved. There was NO formal bid from the Pike's Peak Chapter, just a few of the Pike's Peak chapter members who were stepping forward to take on a National Meet. This was presented as a possibility of a combined Colorado or Regional National Meet--not a Pike's Peak Chapter only event, with the objective to have the Mile High and Mountain Chapters and New Mexico chapters actively involved in the planning and execution, as well as being financial participants in this event.

Recently it has not been unusual for a small group of individuals to come forward to run a National Meet, outside of their Chapter's sponsorship. An excellent example is the 2008 National Meet in Flint next year. The Flint Chapter voted not to sponsor this event, and a group of their members stepped forward, formed a committee and made a formal bid for this event. We had a similar backup plan in place for 2009, as the Columbus Chapter voted not to bid on the the 2009 National Meet, and a group of members were willing to make a formal bid for the National Meet if no other bids came forward in Seattle.

I understand that upon returning to Colorado from Seattle both Frank Lyle and Martin Emesen (Asst Director and Director of the Pike's Peak Chapter) have had a meeting with Jane Watson of the Colorado Springs Convention and Visitors Bureau to discuss hotel accommodations and also to request support in hosting this event. I have also discussed this event with her and she and her organization are very supportive.

Last week I had a lengthy conversation with Martin Emesen and we discussed the background of Frank's presentation and the changes in how a National Meet will be run in 2009. He also attended the Denver meeting, where Frank made his initial presentation to the two other Colorado chapters.

Frank Lyle has already met with the Mile High and Mountain Chapters, and is working with the New Mexico chapter, which has already made a commitment to run the swap meet.

Starting in 2009 the National Meets will be run much differently from the past, with the National organization taking on a more active role in the initial organizing and providing additional support and resources for the registration, thus relieving the local chapter of these responsibilities. A National Meet committee has been established to work with the hosting Chapters and help with contracts, organization, etc.

I'm not sure what the issues are with your membership, as there are basically two choices members can make when hosting or participating in a National Meet. It should not result in a need to resign from the chapter, just a personal choice members make. These are the choices:

1. Support Frank Lyle's effort and work in making this event a large success.

2. Decide not to become involved and not disrupt Frank's effort.

As I was about to email this off to you, I was extremely disturbed as to the course of action you seem to have taken to do everything possible to derail Frank and his efforts. The emails to directors and posting on the National BCA website was totally out of line and totally unacceptable to the National Board of Directors and conduct that we cannot accept from a BCA member. We expect our members to be positive and not counter-productive to the goals of the BCA or it's members.

Sincerely,

William Darrow

President

Buick Club of America

williamddarrow@msn.com

[Guest imported_Thriller]

It seems we have somewhat more of a statesman at the helm of the BCA than I would be...I commend Bill for the response.

This thread reminds me a bit of a conversation I had with one of the executive of the Gopher State Chapter in Rochester 2006. I am a member of the Gopher State Chapter and this was the first chapter event I'd attended. Since I was not from the area, nor had I been involved in any of the planning (living approximately 450 miles from the meetings), I didn't have specific plans to get involved. However, once I got there I offered to help out with parking cars, so long as there was a general plan / map that I could follow. Late in the event, the then-chapter director was thanking me and I told him to think nothing of it...I was a chapter member and felt something of an obligation to help as I was able. His response was that it was a shame not all chapter members felt the same.

The reality is that the BCA is a club for the members. It is largely what we make of it. Many people, particularly international members, join just to get the Bugle. Others may join for camaraderie...others may join to get in with shows where their Buicks will be appreciated. Others may join for other reasons. However, if you become a member of the club, you ought to be accepting of others (i.e. purist restorer and customizer should be able to at minimum be civil to each other).

I sense that I'm getting all over the place with this post. When I heard about Colorado Springs, I was pretty excited. I hope it all works out as it may be my only chance to visit the Black Hills and other sites. I guess I'll stay tuned.

[Guest BJM]

I can only speak for myself but this is the kind of leadership and professional response from a BCA President that is much appreciated from me.

Thanks Bill for pausing to reflect on the complete picture and updating those of us who get most of the club information from this forum.

[Guest BJM]

Derek,

Your approach is exactly what will be needed in coming years to host these National Meets. The BOD taking a more active role seems to be a good direction. Few chapters were willing to take on this daunting task.

I for one plan on joining chapters to assist in execution of National Meets, if only for the year involved, and one must remember that a National Meet is 4-5 days long, and if I have to 'help' out for a few hours during that strecth, even in a mundane, routine job, I will still have plenty of time to browse and partake. Also, with me, it's likely a 2 fer 1 because my wife has extensive experience in car shows locally and would be glad to help.

I know joining the host area chapters and helping out in this way does not replace the effort of dedicated host chapter members, but it might allow them to focus more on planning and oversight.

I applaud the thinking outside the box approach, although that's an overused cliche nowadays. It appears the last 3 proposals came from members within a chapter and not the chapter per se. This gives me great hope, because I believe there are members in chapters or regions that would develop plans, including myself, that would be knocked down by older, more settled members. All of the "old car hobby clubs" are aging, and we are in transition. I think the younger group (read: under age 50?) owes the older folks nice meets to reward them for their efforts in getting the BCA underway.

The BCA is a strong, multi faceted crowd and is in good hands. The single most stressing issue is always these Nationals and now it appears some new direction/approach is being tried (try something) to gain a foothold on future meet administration.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Well put...actually helping with something like parking, while it may seem mundane, is neat because you get to see so many of the cars as they come in and you can have a chance to speak with the owner, if only for a moment or two.

I see similar things with our local club. There is a Judging & Classification chair...for a few years the position was left unfilled (personally I think we have far too many positions for the size of the club), so we didn't have our annual judge meet. Now, a bunch of the members are saying that nobody wants their cars judged anyway. I beg to differ, but prefer not to get into a bickering match during a meeting. Then again, a survey hasn't gone out asking the members in confidence if they would be interested.

Unfortunately, it is much easier to put down an idea than to work to make it happen. Unless / until sufficient numbers of energetic or enthusiastic folks are involved at the grass roots level (or chapter level), I suspect it will be hard to change.

I know we've beaten this about on the forum in the last couple of years, but there are, what, six, regions? Would it not be possible to get regions rotating to host the National Meet? Then, while each chapter within the region may not be as local, the work can be spread out among more folks. Many hands make the work lighter. This doesn't work for everything, but some tasks can be farmed out in such a manner.

I guess the other thing is the financial risk / reward. If there was effectively no risk for the chapter (say by moving it up to the BCA in general), then perhaps more chapters would be willing to take it on.

Anyway, I hope for the best and hope also that we can learn to get along, or at least play nice in the sand box.

[BUICK RACER]

I was planning on shutting this post down, after Bill Darrow's Reply, but since there's been some positive reponses to his reply, I'm thinking, that maybe not. Compared to the earlier post on the BCA Nationals, I did shut down, this post has been very encouraging to every BCA member to work with their Buick Buddies, no matter, if they belong to a chapter or not, to think about a group of enthused BCA Members to get together, and find a great place to hold our most important event for the Club, The BCA National Meet. You have to do all the things that are mention in previous posts, some of it is a pain, some of it is the most exciting things you will ever do, getting a bunch of Buicks in one place, and having the time of your life with everyone that enjoys the same thing you do.

Just like our plan for 2008 in Flint, is to have major fun with our Buicks and share our stories, and memories with our best friends, you and your BUICK! Remember, it's not the Trophy, your Buick is your Trophy, especially, when you share it with your Buick Friends, and that's our plan for next year in FLINT!!!!!!!!!!!

I approved this announcement, as that's my plan!

[jscheib]

Roberta,

I agree. I think you should keep it going. I can already see some positive ideas and creative juices going, so perhaps more will come from it.

John