Rusty_OToole

Spotlights for cars go back to 1920 or earlier. In those days only the biggest towns and cities had good street lights and outside of there, the roads and hiways were poorly marked with signs. An early method of road signs or indicating which direction to take, were bands of different colored paint on telegraph poles at road junctions. A spotlight was a handy gadget for travellers to find their way at night, for looking for street signs and house numbers. Police cars still have spotlights in many areas. Spotlight were made illegal in the 50s. I believe California was the first to ban them about 1951. Since then dummy spots were used as a style accessory.

Funny things happen around the factory sometimes. Maybe it was one of those cars made on Monday morning LOL. I have a 1951 DeSoto that is supposed to be equipped with a 251 engine (D15 model). Instead it has the 236 ( 1950 D14 model). I suppose they were using up last year's engines for a while. Funny thing is, the owner's manual says the engine is a D14 236 and it is the right owner's manual. So maybe the engine spec change came after the first of the year.

There is a certain technique required to drive a Fluid Drive correctly. If you try to drive it like a standard it won't work. Then again, it doesn't drive like an automatic either. It is a unique transmission all its own. I have a technique for driving a fluid drive that works very well and makes it practically the same as driving a modern automatic. Right off the bat you need to know that the gearshift is not like a standard. It only has 3 positions. Reverse is toward you and up, low range is straight up, high range is straight down. You should do most of your driving in high range. Low range is for starting on steep hills, pulling thru deep snow, sand or mud or for starting off towing a trailer, etc. Start the engine with the transmission in neutral, the hand brake applied and your foot off the clutch pedal. Let the engine warm up until it will idle at its slowest speed. Depress the clutch pedal shift into gear and release the clutch, all with the handbrake still on. Release the handbrake and drive away like any automatic. When you get up to 15 MPH lift off the gas and wait for the "click-clunk" and step on it again. If you elect to use low range it is the same except you can shift into hi gear (of low range) at 6 MPH. If you then wish to go from low range to high range step on the clutch pedal and move the shift lever down into high range. This is very easy, it is based on the owner's manual recommended technique. You have to drive it more like an automatic, if you drive it like a standard you will hate it. It is not a standard, it is a primitive automatic with a few quirks of its own but with a little understanding your fluid drive or fluid torque drive will work great for you. Give this a try, if it doesn't work come back and ask again. Chances are there is nothing wrong with your transmission but if there is, it is usually easy to fix. The transmission itself is very rugged and trouble free. Most problems are to do with the wiring and controls, which are external, easy to get at and easy to fix.

The C52 number is definitely a 1951 or 1952 Chrysler New Yorker V8 number. The Windsor 6 is supposed to be a C51. The 1951 Windsor C51 engine is a 251 cu in 116HP engine with 3 7/16"bore and 4 1/2" stroke. The 1952 C51 had a longer stroke, 4 3/4" crankshaft. It had the same bore of 3 7/16 but the longer stroke gave it 265 cu in and 119HP. This was the largest displacement version of that engine and as I said before, the same engine was also used in trucks, industrial and marine powerplants. So, your 1952 model should have the big six. All 1952, 53 and 54 Windsors used this engine as well as the Canadian made 1952, 1953 and 54 DeSoto six, and the truck industrial and marine powerplants mentioned earlier.

Maybe I can answer part of your question by telling you that I have a 1951 DeSoto Custom with the 236 cu in 116HP six and Fluid Drive and I would trade it for a standard 3 speed any day. And I like the Fluid Drive, and know how to keep it in repair. But there is no doubt I would take a standard over a Fluid Drive. I went back and reread the DeSoto Suburban article, he has 4:11 gears in that car, it weighs 4800 pounds, when he tows the trailer with a full load of passengers and baggage his GVW is over 8000 pounds. Yet he cruises at up to 3600 RPM which is 70 to 75 MPH. The only difference is I think the big limo models came with 8.20X15 tires like the New Yorker and Imperial. Yours would have had 7.60 15s. This would have a slight effect on gearing.

You should read this article. http://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html It is about an 8 passenger DeSoto suburban with the flathead 6. At one point the owner rebuilt the engine with a long stroke 4 3/4" crankshaft to increase displacement from 251 to 265 cu in. I don't know what kind of gearing is in this whale but I guarantee it is lower than anything you have, and the engine has a longer stroke, yet he thinks nothing of driving it at 70 thru the California desert, into Death Valley, over the mountains to Yellowstone Park, towing a trailer no less. So I don't think you have much to worry about. The only note of caution is, ANY engine if it is in poor shape is more likely to fail at hi speed than if you baby it. If your engine is in good shape you have nothing to worry about but if the bearings are shot, you have no oil pressure, the pistons are slapping and the valves are burnt I take no responsibility if it blows sky high.

Check out Ebay, there is a 1942 DeSoto coupe on there that has your name on it. I realise it's not exactly a Chrysler but it is one of the coolest looking Chrysler products ever, with the hideaway headlights like a Cord. Very rare, low production due to WW2 stopping production in early 42. Opening bid is $750 which is too high if you ask me. But you may be able to get the seller to talk turkey if he doesn't get a bid.

Serial number is stamped on a raised pad on the left side of the engine. Just below the head, between the 1st and second cylinder. C52 is a 1951 or 52 New Yorker Hemi V8. Are you sure it's not C51? That would be a 1951 or 52 six.

There is a website called Allpar that has a lot of info on all Chrysler products including ones related by marriage (and divorce). They have a page on the flathead 6s. Biggest most powerful one used in cars was the Chrysler Windsor 265 cu in 119HP 1952 to 1954. The same engine with 3 7/16 bore was used in Chrysler and DeSoto from 1942 up. They came in 236 (4 1/4" stroke) 251 (4 1/2" stroke) and 265 (4 3/4" stroke). The same engine was used in trucks to 1962 and military spec Power Wagon 4WD trucks to 1968. It was also used in marine, industrial, and farm machinery applications. Engine rebuilders are still putting them out for these uses. Most parts are available. On the Allpar web site there is a fascinating article on one man's 1951 DeSoto 8 passenger sedan and how he kept it on the road from 1951 to 1975 when the article was written. You will learn a lot from his rebuild of the car's engine and the results. You will have to do a web search for the Allpar site as I do not have it bookmarked.

You are the best judge of whether you have power to burn or not. But I don't think you need to change gearing. Some of the old engines had a short life when the new 4 lane hiways came out in the late 50s and early 60s. Chevrolets dropped like flies and some Hudsons suffered premature wear. Both these makes used splash oiled engines not made for high speed use. Chrysler products always had full pressure oiling and stood up better. I'm not going to say you can drive as fast as you want. After all that is a 50 year old car. But when it was a current model no one would have thought twice about a long trip at 60 or 65 MPH. Before I changed gearing I would be taking a close look at that 251. If it is in decent shape (not too much cylinder wear) you might be able to overhaul it with new rings, bearings, gaskets, a valve job and possibly a new oil pump. That engine with the standard transmission would keep up with traffic better than the Dodge engine.

According to my Canadian Service Data Book your car came with the 3 7/16 X 4 1/2 engine 250 cu in 114 HP and manual transmission. The rear axle came with a 39 tooth ring gear and an 11 tooth pinion. This gives a ratio of 3.54:1. The 51 Dodge came with a 3 3/8 X 4 1/16 engine (model D39, D40) or a 3 3/8 X 4 1/4 (D42). You should be able to tell what engine you have by the last 3 digits of the serial number. It is stamped on the block on the left side, at the front, between the 1st and 2nd cylinder. Since you have a smaller displacement lower powered engine you really need a lower gear ratio than stock in order to keep the same accelleration and hill climbing power. These cars were not known for being overpowered in the first place. By going the other way you will slow the engine down at hiway speeds no doubt. But you will also cut your power for accellerating and hill climbing. I wouldn't do it. Unless you feel you have power to burn right now. I expect if you made the change accelleration would be very sluggish and at hiway speeds the car would slow down on every grade. You should have no problem cruising at 55 to 65 with your present gears. Those were normal hiway speeds when your car was built. It may sound noisier than today's cars but that is to be expected. I wouldn't change anything. You are apt to do more harm than good. If anything I would be looking for a 265 engine from a 1952 - 54 Chrysler Windsor. One of those would have the power to handle a lower gear. If you could find an overdrive transmission that would be even better. But for all the driving you are likely to do with that car I would leave it alone.

I have a 1951 DeSoto Club Coupe (sorry not for sale). Have been thinking of doing something similar with the engine. Can you tell me more about this truck dual carb/exhaust? Have seen a pic of this setup but thought it was for some larger block truck engine? Will it fit the DeSoto/Chrysler block? What year or models of truck used this setup?

This is often the case with cars that have been out of commission for years. Usually a few hundred miles of running with fresh oil in the crankcase plus a can of Rislone or Bardahl will fix them up. If the engine runs well, has good oil pressure I would try this first. The one thing that bothers me is the low compression in 2 adjoining cylinders. This can indicate a blown head gasket. Is there any other sign of a blown head gasket such as bubbles in the rad when the engine is running, or water in the oil? If so you will have to take the head off to replace the gasket. If you follow the shop manual you should be OK.

First of all yes Chrysler products used hardened valve seats and good valves unlike certain cheap products of other makers. Second the heavily leaded hi test gas did not become available until 1954 or 55. Until then all regular gas was low lead or no lead by today's standards. In fact there were several good brands of gas that used no lead additives and bragged about it. 3d the cars that suffered the most when unleaded gas was introduced were the models that had the carburetors leaned out for emissions and mileage reasons. 4th the valve burning and valve seat recession does not start until a critical degree of heat is reached. If your engine is in good shape (and your coolant distribution tube) and you don't drive like a madman your engine will never get that hot. So, it should be no problem at all. You should also bear in mind that your engine was made to run on gas of around 70 octane, maybe less. The cheapest gas you can get these days is equivalent to the hi test of 1950.

Anybody? I know there must be one someplace with my name on it LOL.

The fan blades are probably choked with dust too. Clean them out polish them and give the fan a thin coat of glossy paint. You will be amazed what a difference this makes. It doesn't seem it should make much difference but it does. Be careful to get ALL the dirt off, if you miss a gob it will throw the fan off balance.

Chrysler Windsor 1952, 1953 and 1954. Also certain models of Dodge Power Wagon 4 wheel drive trucks made for military use up to 1962. They made them for marine and industrial power plants as well.

Your shifting problem may be related to the carb control wire. All I can suggest is to get a repair manual and figure out where the wire is supposed to go. Your car is supposed to have a Carter carburetor, model BB, number E9A1, E9C or E9C1. If the carb has been replaced at some time that might explain the missing wiring. There should be a kick down switch at the rear of the carb. This has a straight wire connector that plugs into a brass tube. The brass tube has a slot where a little wire retainer clip goes in to hold the wire. If the clip falls off there will be nothing to stop the wire falling out. Look for a little brass tube about 1/8" dia with a slot in it, at the back of the carb, pointing toward the left. There should also be a switch at the front top of the carb with 2 wires that push into 2 brass tubes or loops.

The fluid drive transmission is extremely rugged and reliable. The main thing that goes wrong is the wiring and controls to the transmission. The insulation on the wire deteriorates and crumbles after many years and occasionally the controls go wrong. If it was mine I would make sure the engine is running correctly, the wiring is in good shape, the fluid drive and transmission are full of oil, and I would try it out. 9 times out of 10 it will work perfectly. Recently there were a couple of threads in the Chrysler or DeSoto boards where I covered the correct opertaion and technique of driving one of these babies. They are very simple and easy to drive but do require a little different technique for smooth operation.

You shouldn't have to do anything to it. It is one of the simplest most trouble free units ever put in a car. It only has one moving part and one seal. It is hermetically sealed and runs in an oil bath. There is almost no chance of it going wrong. You should check the oil every 10,000 miles according to the owner's manual. You do this thru a hole in the passenger side floor boards, about half way up the driveshaft tunnel. There will be a plate more or less under the dash board. Take off this plate and you will see a hole in the bellhousing with a round cover. Pry out the cover and turn the engine over with the starter till you see the fill/drain plug. Stuff a rag around the hole so you can't drop the plug into the bellhousing, and unscrew the plug. Top up the oil supply if necessary. You can use a tractor hydraulic oil called ISO 32 type. You can get it at auto supply and farm supply stores for less than $10 bucks a gallon. If you want to really go "uptown" you can drain and refill the fluid coupling. There is a place in the bottom of the bellhousing to take out the plug and drain the oil, then you turn over the engine till the hole is in the fill position and fill it up. There should be a second cover plate farther back, just in front of the seat. It is for inspecting and servicing the relays and wiring on the transmission, and refilling the transmission oil. The transmission takes #10 motor oil. While we are looking under the carpet there is a 3d cover plate on the driver's side, this one is for access to the master cylinder brake fluid reservoir. About the only thing that can go wrong with the fluid coupling is for the seal to wear out or fail and if this happens you can put a new seal in quite easily, after you remove the fluid drive unit from the car.

Addendum to above. The Gyromatic was the same as Fluid Drive and had separate oil supplies to engine, trans and fluid coupling. The one with the combined oil supply was called Gyrotorque Drive. This info comes from the factory recommendations, and contemporary service manuals.

If your Gyromatic is the same as fluid drive it has separate oil supplies for fluid coupling, transmission and engine. For the fluid coupling you can use a tractor hydraulic fluid I believe is called "ISO 32". This can be bought quite reasonably at auto supply stores. Originally Chrysler made their own Fluid Drive fluid, this has not been made in years. The transmission is supposed to use #10 motor oil. For the engine use 10W30. Detergent oils were available from 1947 on, and your car has probably used it at least from the 60s if not its whole life. Originally they recommended 10W in the winter and 30 in summer so use 10W30 and be covered. Incidentally in 1951 Chrysler recommended an oil change and grease job every 1000 miles. Modern oils will stand up longer than that, but you should change more frequently than in a new car anyway. The oil filters and air filters they used back then allowed more dirt into the engine and you have to change the oil to get rid of that dirt. You have to be careful because some Chrysler products used the same oil supply for the engine transmission and torque converter or fluid drive. Yours may be one of these. You can tell them because they have a huge oil pan, it holds 10 or 12 quarts compared to 4 for the normal oil pan. These models had an oil passage drilled thru the back of the engine into the bellhousing and thence to the transmission.

Don't know what you mean by shifting poor and unfixable. The stock setup is pretty trouble free and reliable if you keep the wiring in good condition and don't monkey with it. A Dodge or Plymouth standard transmission, bellhousing and clutch will fit so far as I know. An old time mechanic told me he once did this swap over in a day using junkyard parts. The owner then tried to drive it out of the garage as if it still had the fluid drive and smashed into the wall LOL. Have also heard of hot rodders adapting a T5 5 speed transmission to the flathead engine.

Let us know how you get the 6V +gnd stuff to work on 12V -gnd. I would like to know myself if this is possible.

Have been having an argument with a new Lincoln owner about this. He recently bought what he calls a "1947 Lincoln Zephyr". It was my understanding that Lincoln dropped the Zephyr name about the time they ceased producing the senior Lincolns and postwar they were all "Lincolns". In other words they stopped using the Zephyr name some time in the early or mid 40s even though the car they produced was a Zephyr in all but name until 1948. Can anyone give me a definite answer or date on this?Is there any way to prove it?