John_S_in_Penna

Your Bowman questions points up a good suggestion that our national A.A.C.A. should undertake: Publish a membership directory that includes listings of members' cars. Then you could simply look up "Bowman" or any other make, year, and model, and find the owners who had them. Wouldn't that be great for putting hobbyists together? Other clubs, such as the Classic Car Club of America, the Buick Club of America, and the Lincoln and Continental Owners' Club, do just that with their directories. After all, clubs are all about cars and camaraderie, and if I obtained an unusual car, one of the first things I would do would be to get in contact with owners of similar cars. If a member chose not to list his cars, that would be his prerogative.

Dear JTC, Lincolns of that era are such comfortable highway cars. Hope you find a good home for it. Please note, though, that your car doesn't sound like a Cartier edition. All Lincolns had the "Cartier" name on the plastic clock-face cover; true designer-edition Cartier editions for 1979 had a specific tan paint scheme and a tan interior with maroon accents. Those true editions also had the Cartier name in script on the opera windows. For these reasons, Cartier is often misattributed to Lincolns of this era. By the way, the pictures on the Craigslist web site do not show on my computer. Perhaps that is because I don't have "Java" installed...

Dennis, I was reading recently a description of when A.A.C.A. admitted cars of various years to the shows. A 14-year old 1960 car would not have been eligible for entry in a 1974 show, I'm virtually certain. (A.A.C.A. headquarters in Hershey, Pa. could verify that statement.) It could be that the owners of your good-looking 1960 Oldmobile owned a diffferent car which they entered in 1974--and that, if the 1960 Olds was at the show, it was just transportation.

The Buick Club of America is a good place to start. I myself am not knowledgeable about Reatta cathode-ray tubes for the dashboard display, but Technical Advisors in the BCA can probably lead you in the right direction. There are two men listed for 1988-1991 Reattas: --Don Kinas, Plymouth, Wisc. Phone (920) 893-3913; --Barney Eaton, Georgetown, Texas. Phone (512) 869-5114, 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. Central Time. Hope this helps. I suspect someone can repair it.

You may know that the H.C.S. was related to the Stutz car: Harry C. Stutz, who began the Stutz Motor Car Company, left that firm and began building the H.C.S. car in 1920. So H.C.S. cars have a following with the Stutz folks. To get an opinion of the price, you may want to contact Bill Greer, who is the founder of the Stutz Club and the editor of its newsletter. You may want to e-mail him the pictures, and you should find him friendly and very helpful. His telephone is (317) 849-3443. The club's internet site is Welcome to the Stutz Club Online. Please list your own phone number and give the location of the cars. That's one of the rules of the forum--and it will enable buyers and sellers to connect better. Your H.C.S. sounds interesting.

You could contact the Graham Owners Club International. I suspect that, like most clubs, they maintain a membership roster and keep track of who owns what cars. Even though you are not a member, they would probably be happy to give you the names and phone numbers of any people (if there are any) that own 1917 Paige touring cars in their club. Not everyone who owns a particular car belongs to the corresponding club, but it is a start. The contact name I have for this club (as published in Old Cars Weekly newspaper) is Mr. Terry Graham (419) 433-5609. There is also a Paige expert (boy, isn't that a narrow specialty!) named Bill Roberts who has a web site Home Page of Bill Roberts.

By the way, Richard, there is a Graham Owners Club International. I found this car-club listing in the May 8, 2008 issue of the hobby newspaper, Old Cars Weekly. As Paige is far from a common make of car, I could find no listing for a Paige club. Graham and Paige were combined for a few years as Graham-Paige, so the Graham club may be a good contact for you to inquire as to their opinions of price. The listed contact is Terry Graham, Huron, Ohio, phone (419) 433-5609. I suspect that people well-versed in Grahams may also know about the related Paiges--if Mr. Graham doesn't know, he could lead you to someone who does know. Perhaps they have a web site too, which could be found by a Google search. There was no web site listed in the newspaper listing.

I'm active in the A.A.C.A. in our region of Pennsylvania, but in all my years have not had a pre-war car. I've been looking for one--something interesting and not often seen. Thanks for responding to my inquiry. I will be calling you.

Are you going to be putting the 1915 Paige up for sale? If so, where are you located, and please give us some more particulars.

Everyone's right: We restore cars, not expecting a profit, but because we enjoy the hobby. I know of one beautiful 1936 custom-bodied LeBaron coupe, a Grand National Award winner in 2007 or 2008, that just sold for $89,000. The restoration cost was $200,000--not including the purchase of the car itself. (It was auctioned for $75,000 initially but did not sell beacause of the reserve.) Please tell us the Reo's location and list your phone number. It certainly looks fine in the pictures you posted! These Forum guidelines will not only help prosepective buyers, but should help you the seller too.

Here in Pennsylvania, unless you live in an urban area, it's easy to find pleasant back roads at any time of day, and a car as old as a '25 should do well. I wouldn't drive it in congested traffic--being from a small town, I don't even like driving my regular car in congested traffic <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />! Certainly the organized old-car tours in various parts of the country have antique cars out on the smaller roads. When I lived in Northwest Penna., where it was even more rural, I could take a back road (paved) to work and, in 15 miles, see maybe 2 other cars going the other way. I avoid dirt roads with the antique cars because of stones, dust, or the possibility of freshly-spread oil, though those are exactly the kinds of roads your car would have experienced in its day. And yes, I've driven my old cars to work or church a few times over the years just to share the old cars with my friends and co-workers.

Bhigdog, that cost data should be helpful. Thanks for being so specific. I notice that your pole building, as reasonably priced as it was, was still 50% more expensive per square foot than the one for which Mr. K8 got a quote. Also, he says his building is to have vinyl siding and a 30-year roof, which leads me to think his is stick-framed (i.e. 2x4 or 2x6 studs), not a pole building. And a garage such as that should be considerably more expensive than a pole building. One person I spoke to in Delaware is planning a multi-bay garage to match his house. He was receiving quotes in the range of $100 per square foot, which he felt was not worth it. However, he was in a fairly high-cost area, and he was including a considerable amount of architectural niceties for appearance's sake. Recall that Mr. K8 got a quote for $15 per square foot. K8, if you're still checking this thread in the forum, you should get from your prospective contractors a DETAILED specification of everything they are providing. (Also a list of what they are excluding.) The contractor I worked for for many years did such a thing. I mean, the thickness of the vinyl, the thickness of the roof underlayment, the size and concrete strength of the foundation wall, the names and model numbers of any equipment, the R-value of the insulation...EVERYTHING. If certain things are not known at this time, there should be dollar "allowances" in the price quotation, and you should verify that those allowances are realistic. Of course, getting an impeccably honest and competent contractor is first and foremost, and a good one will be more than happy to give this level of detail. All of you with these capacious new garages may have to buy a few more cars to fill them up! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

A garage that size is what every car collector needs! You'll have a good time filling it up. I'm an engineer with experience in the design of commercial and residential buildings. Before you sign anything with the contractor, you might want to learn exactly what "extras" will be needed. That price for that square footage works out to only $15 per square foot, so it seems evident to me that many things are not being included. Is it a stick-framed garage (i.e. 2x4 wood studs) or a pole building? Usually those quoted low prices don't include foundations or a concrete slab! Does the price include erecting the building, or just supplying it? Is the building designed for snow load and wind load suitable for your climate? Often those pre-fab buildings are lightly constructed, and I wouldn't necessarily count on the municipal code reviewer to know what loads are appropriate. The thickness of the siding may be the thinnest kind available. We want you to enjoy the new building--but be sure to know all the facts before entering an agreement! Has anyone in the forum had some experience in building a garage? Any good cost data?

Here are some statistics on average car speed, taken from an article in Popular Science Monthly, February 1930. I just came across this article: "In 1910 the average speed on improved highways was about 20 miles an hour. It increased about one mile an hour each year till 1928, when it reached about 38 miles an hour. In that year, the Ford 'Model A' started skimming along the roads and it is anybody's guess what the average speed is today." "But speed is not necessarily danger. 'A 50-mile touring speed,' says Alvan Macauley, President of the Packard company, 'is safer today [1930] than 35 or 40 miles an hour was ten years ago [1920].' Improvements in motor, brake mechanism, body strength, and visibility are responsible for the new safety." I think it's always interesting to read first-hand accounts of history, written by the people who were actually there. If a modern magazine wrote about the same topic, it would be fine, but these people had current first-hand experience driving the roads of the day in the 'Teens and 'Twenties cars. The article, by the way, is titled, "Shall Speed Laws be Abolished?" and is an analysis of how to make roads safer. In addition to appearing in Popular Science Monthly, it was reprinted in the March 1930 Reader's Digest, of which I have a copy.

Peter, your clip-art site certainly is extensive! There should be something there for just about any subject! If you wouldn't mind educating me, though: What exactly is the purpose of clip-art? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I have noticed that most clip-art sources have what I would call "goofy" art: simple, casually sketched, sometimes distorted, sometimes humorous. I have seen newsletters use it as fillers for that odd space that needs something; or sometimes to illustrate a headline. But (and please don't get me wrong), I can't see that any serious publication would be using clip-art. I can't imagine National Geographic or Fortune or our own Antique Automobile using the typical clip-art illustration. What would be especially useful, in my opinion, would be a source of more "serious" illustrations: an attractive detailed illustration of an actual car from the '50's, for example, rather than a generic distorted one; or a detailed pen-and-ink drawing of a street scene from the 1910's; or a stipple portrait of Henry Ford a la The Wall Street Journal. I hope you'll take this question and suggestion only in the positive vein it was intended! Thanks. --John S. Glidden [Tour] Gazette '07

The answers in this column show that there are a lot of good, ethical people out there. That's good to know, especially when we may be buying or selling another's car. True advancement never comes from deceiving someone. It has been said that ethics is "what you do when no one is looking."

Received my copy in Pennsylvania on December 2. Bruce W's post office in Maryland can't be too far away! <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'll bet the Peerless Club is more than a shell of a club, as you wondered. I ran into their tent at Hershey a few years ago and spoke with them briefly. I suspect that, since the marque is not common, they are a smaller, less formal group--though as dedicated and helpful as a larger club would be. The same could probably said of less common makes such as Graham and Stanley and Maxwell-Chalmers. If you were involved, I bet you would quickly get to know them--even faster than in a big club. The fact that their internet site isn't updated shouldn't reflect on their enthusiasm. They obviously wanted a presence on the internet, but they just haven't made the internet a priority. Even our own region of the A.A.C.A., which has hundreds of members and activities every month, hasn't changed its web site in about 8 months.

3Jakes, in an earlier forum question, I recall you were pondering a possible Peerless purchase. (How's that for alliteration? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) I like the idea of Peerlesses because they are so seldom seen, but you were questioning the work involved with the wood. Was that car not a good candidate for you? By 1938, the date of the Cadillac you saw, wood was gone from the structure of General Motors cars, unless Cadillacs happened to hold on longer with the old-time construction. If there's no wood, then that's one less thing to deal with during your restoration! And as you probably know, late 1930's cars should be much more capable of modern highway speeds.

The 1938 Cadillac sounds good to me, too. Many people feel that the earlier cars such as that are simpler to restore, so there's a bonus for you. And "best of all, it's a Cadillac," as Cadillac used to say. The 1960 Imperial coupe is a very uncommon car. I like the styling and the fact that you don't see them at many shows. However, I would NEVER buy from a "shady old car dealer," no matter what he had. I will never reward dishonesty, and who knows what defects he's hiding? The 1958 Roadmaster coupe is another one that's neat, but it depends on one's taste. Be aware that the rechroming bill will be in excess of $7000, if it even stops there. Don't try to restore a modern Buick Reatta--modern cars are too complex. Perhaps the Reatta guys could better advise you, but if you want a Reatta just spend $6000 for a very nice driver. I too suggest you don't spread yourself too thin. There will always be cars available, so don't feel you have to "save" them or hoard them for the future. People that have too many jobs in progress tend to leave the work unfinished. After you finish your current projects and have them to enjoy, I suggest getting just ONE so you can concentrate your effort, as forum member K8096 suggested above. Enjoy!

Thanks for your quick and helpful reply, Earl. I wholeheartedly agree that off-color material has no place in our publications; and, since our newsletters are devoted to CARS and the people that enjoy them, topics such as religion and politics should come up seldom, if at all. With 300 million people in our country, there are 300 million different backgrounds, experiences, and opinions--and with the right of free speech comes the responsibility to be respectful to all. As for great people being the source of our freedom, even they acknowledged in the Declaration of Independence "that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." So they knew that freedom doesn't originate with man. That being said, no one should wear religion outwardly on his shirtsleeve, but should instead be practicing it quietly in his daily life. I agree that the mere mention of God in passing is not inappropriate, and I would never steer away from such a mild remark. If it were offensive, every region that gives an invocation or blessing before a meal would be at risk. We are all amateurs, not professional journalists, and whether 19 or 99, we are learning.

When I see ads that claim things like, "Only 5 left," I don't put much faith in their statistics. Supposedly these statistics come from car registrations, and there are services that claim to tell you how many, but I know my state (Penna.) only registers cars as "1938 Chrysler." The registration gives no idea of the model and body style. You could, however, see how many are listed in club directories--which usually do list model and body style, and that would at least tell you if any other club members have one. Sometimes it's nice to talk to a fellow collector who has the same rare car you have. Sounds like a great car to enjoy <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />!

I'm not sure which book or manual might give you what you need, but you could start by contacting the A.A.C.A. Library and Research Center in Hershey, Penna. They might have something you do not, and they are glad to photocopy pages for you for a reasonable charge and mail them to you. Happy restoring <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> !

The new program for regions' Newsletter Achievement Awards sounds very good. I am editing the newsletter for the 2007 Glidden Tour, and, this not being a region's newsletter per se, am probably not eligible to enter. However, those guidelines are great to improve any newsletter. I do have a few questions to make sure I'm doing the right thing. In Earl Beauchamp's write-up of the awards program in the Winter 2006 Rummage Box, the scoring form says: "Newsletter contains foul language, sexual, and/or racial innuendo or comment, or includes copyright material without permission--[that issue of the newsletter is] disqualified." "Newsletter contains political comment, other than Legislative Reports--Disqualified" "Newsletter contains religious innuendo or comment (Except reporting event at a religious facility)--Disqualified" Now I would be one of the last people intentionally to offend anyone. My writing is usually upbeat. A 1952 Plymouth sedan is just as valuable a part of history, in my estimation, as a Cadillac V-16. The man of humble means and a different race may be a better person than the rich car collector who has yet to learn humility. But here are my questions: --Suppose I commemorate Independence Day or September 11 with a comment such as, "We can be thankful on a day like this for the freedom God has given to all men. Let us remember our service men and women, and especially Joe Smith's two sons who are currently serving their country in Iraq." That simple statement contains both religious and political comment, as harmless as it may be. And after all, thousands of us celebrate Christmas and probably mention it in our newsletter. --Reproducing artwork from pre-war car ads is something I see done frequently. Should I write to behemoth General Motors and ask to reprint a portion of a 65-year old 1942 Buick ad, hoping to reach the right person and get a reply in time for a deadline? If Earl or Wayne or anyone else would care to comment... Thanks!

That was fast. I just e-mailed them to you a few minutes ago. The benefits of electronic technology! My college roommate specialized in digital signal processing (a branch of electrical engineering). Amazing how simple on/off electrical impulses can be arranged to transmit pictures, music, calculate complex formulas, sell garage-sale leftovers on Ebay, etc. etc. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> !