60FlatTop

I found this previous post "I'm a little befuddled by a problem that cropped up last night in my Electra. All things considered, it could be worse, I suppose. Yet, it was disconcerting, and I could use some pointers as to how to direct my troubleshooting efforts. I drove 70 or so miles north of town on dry roads, to Loveland, and parked my car to meet up with some of my GFs friends at a pub, there. Had a great old time, but it was dark and rainy when I got back to the car. Got in, started the car without incident, and turned on my headlights. They were on, but something was wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it at first. It was too "dark", for some reason. I tapped the bright switch on the floor, and those popped on, so that checked out. Then I realized that I didn't have any dash lights. The "Gen" and "Oil" lights came on briefly when I started it, as they usually do (they're only on for a second or so), but there was no light on the speedometer, and no lights behind the climate controls or windshield washer. The rear dome lights and footwell lights come on when I twist the headlight knob past the detent, and they go off when I turn it back. There were no blinker lights working on the dash, though they did work on the corners of the car. So, I drove the 30 miles back down to Longmont with no dash lights, periodically turning on the dome lights to get a quick glimpse of the speedometer to make sure I wasn't going too fast, as there wasn't enough traffic to gauge my speed against other cars. When I got to my GF's place, I let the car sit for 30 minutes while I relaxed a little and gave the problem some time with the little gray cells. Went back out to the car, started it up, and confirmed everything I'd see earlier. So that's where my "guessing of the causes" began. On one hand, I'm thinking that maybe a fuse had blown, but I've never had a fuse blow on any car or bike in the past, and I'm inclined to think of that as a bad thing, as I assume that an electrical fault (maybe a short or a bad ground) would be to blame. On the other hand, I thought that maybe the rheostat in the headlight switch has gone bad. I figure there has to be a way to bypass the rheostat and have all of the dash lighting in "bright" mode, so that's not so bad as the chance of a blown fuse, I figure. Now, to add more confusion to the whole mess, I went out this morning (the rain stopped overnight) and started the car, and now the blinker lights next to the speedo -=are=- working, and they work if the headlights are on or off. It's too bright to see if the other dash lights are working or not, but the critical difference between this morning and last night is that it's not raining this morning. Could the rain, somehow, be pointing to a possible cause? Anyhoo, it's perplexing, and I don't have enough experience with the old boat to know what route to take through the troubleshooting process. Any pointers or thoughts would be much appreciated." It kind of looks like that problem still exists and the fuel ideas are leading you away. I would chase down every electrical item associated with powering that HEI system. I bet you find it. Bernie

So when the sun starts setting you take a ride around town and cool off- No Air Condish turned on! Bernie

Stick your foot into one of those and right at 2800 RPM you start smilin. If I bought another I would be sure to get the modified bumpers, too. Bernie

Bernie

I think those drums are 12" X 2" and pretty common on the rear of GM cars in the '50's, '60's, and '70's. I had to do a brake job on a 1956 Olds and found out the drums on those are a two piece affair that presses together and almost impossible to replace. I went to my old junkyard that has tons of parts they never sold. Looking through the brake drum racks, I found a nice pair of 5 on 5, 12 X 2's from a later model. They fit right on the car but there was a big flare at the back edge that looked like a dust shield. I dropped them off at a machine shop and they shaved the flare off for 50 bucks. I think the drums were $10 each. I ended up with a pair better than new for well under $100. A machine shop might be able to trim that thickness down for you safely. Starting from scratch, I would just focus on rummaging around for some 5 on 5 12X2's in a used parts bin. The quality is not bad on some of the older stuff. Bernie

Specialty vendors and collector parts providers for our cars started showing up in the 1980's. Although there have always been a few specialists by marque the "warehouse" sellers came into being around that time and the ones still with us have put a lot of work into the businesses. I have bought from a lot of sources over the years. One thing I ask for is the manufacture of the part. If they don't know the name or I don't recognize it I usually will continue shopping. To run a large warehouse for obsolete parts the key skill is procurement. Large stocks must be purchased from warehouses all over the country and possibly foreign countries. Procurement being the key, quality and application may end up in second place. I have seen a lot of "no name" plain cardboard boxes, obscure brand names, and many of the logo mimicking boxes come from a vendor who tries to create this business model. Once I purchased a full front suspension rebuilding kit from a large warehouse supplier. All the components came in plain boxes with an ink stamped number. The machine work was poor. I remember that the tie rod end nuts were so poorly made that one slid over the threads without gripping. I had to use the original nuts. Luckily I made it work. It is a matter of what is out their to support our 50,60,and 70+ year old cars. The first key to success it to maintain what you have so you buy as few parts as you can. And have as few helping hands involved as possible Second is to run Ebay and Craigslist searches constantly. "1960 Buick NOS" "1964 Buick Riviera NOS" are my top ones. Stockpile. I sent Danny Marx payment for a pair of MOOG '60 Buick ball joints early this week. Those are Murphy's Law ball joints, like all the other stuff I have stashed because of old Murph. Always ask about the origin of parts when you buy. Second rate parts have been manufactured from the beginning. Today that big warehouse full of old cars parts could be the one that went out of business because it stocked junk parts. When the job is wholesale procurement that detail can be overlooked. Its work. Its expensive. its not for the timid. Bernie

You might be internet literate about Buicks if: All Buicks have portholes. Every '30's and 40's Buick is a Roadmaster. All Electras are Deuce 'N a Quarta's. Really? Your Uncle, Aunt, or Doctor had one exactly like mine? Bernie

In New York State a new owner is required to have a safety inspection when they purchase a car. Of course that's the next guy. If you drive the day today would you be able to make your best emergency stop if YOUR kid ran out in front of you? I used to give estimates on collector car brake jobs. My standard answer was "about the same as two bumpers; yours and his." That's about 1200 bucks but allow $400 per wheel for surprises. This is a timely message. Due to some medical issues I haven't had my Riviera out in almost two years. The NYS inspection ran out in 2012. I did the brakes around 1995 last time (too many cars!) All four wheels and drums are coming off, the drums should be fine. I am going to have the shoes relined and matched to the drums by Rochester Clutch & Brake. They have a lot of meat on them but I believe some volatiles out-gas from the lining material over time and they loose flexibility to grip the drum. I will replace the three hoses. The master cylinder was NOS, but I had Apple Hydraulics sleeve it anyway. I will install new rubber cups and replace the check valve at a minimum. I will open the wheel cylinders and check for pitting. They are still available and inexpensive, new ones where needed. I will inspect the steel tubing. I take the clamps off and move the line away from the frame. I gently grip the sides with vice grips and tighten just enough to put pressure on them. Water collects on the bottom so the bottom tubing wall gets thin from corrosion. That pressure will make the weak bottom crack open like a lobster tail if it is bad. Or "When in doubt change them out." The emergency brake cables were coated with Never-Sieze when installed. The will be cleaned and recoated. The bleeder screws are all free. My routine is the bleed the brakes annually, pushing out the black stuff until clear comes through. That removes water and slows corrosion. At good vacuum bleed should wrap it up nicely. Other than an annual bleed and inspection I should be good for another 15 years. I'll feel really good about that job. When I wake up at 3 AM it will be one less thing to think about in the dark. Bernie

Its not really a hard decision. You have a 1934 Buick Model 57. If you sell it you will have money. If you didn't have either, which would be easier to get? I tend to keep what is hard to get. Bernie

So was the 22 year old girl I got to wash my Buick for me. Bernie

Here is the expected minor issue the local muffler shop shouldn't have to overcome: If you can't take your car to the shop and have the system built right on the car, please, shop for NOS or NORS manufactured pipes. They are out there. Here are the NOS over the axle pipes I have for my Riviera (lower right). It is worth the effort to find them. These benders send flat plate flanges, the bell flares tend to be too shallow, and a couple of degrees of error on each bend puts you out there with Major Tom. Stockpile, plan, and don't accept second rate stuff. I bought my Riviera when I was 29. I'll be 65 in September. There is plenty of time to do it right. Bernie

I know the story. You are never far away from a barnfind, either. The Cat Litter is from the Jaguar.

When I was a kid I caught hell for leaving tools around the yard. Dad would never have conceived the clutter.

You know what's nice about being an old guy? The stuff all runs. Just stick in the key and drive away! It ain't always been like this. Bernie

Your best shot is keeping a search going on Ebay for NOS Buick or an old stock Walker, Maremont or well know aftermarket brand from the '70's. King & Queen Mufflers in Plumbsteadsville, Pa. is also a good source. Be careful about mail order pipe benders and shop manufactured mufflers. I am having a company meeting this morning and taking the crew to a little town 5 miles away for lunch. I could give them each a handful of ten dollar bills to throw out the window on the ride over and we'd get the same value some exhaust vendors provide. We'd just laugh and giggle more. Bernie

The only issue I had was the three holes. I would have done four. My car is planned to lose it's vinyl top in the next 18 months and I have been thinking about a silver roof, sail panels and deck area, keeping the maroon sides and hood. I thought about tu-toning the maroon the way they did the silver. I even thought about pancaking the hood like the Silver Arrow and making a solid grille panel operated by a calorostat. I like the '63. Bernie

40 years ago these were acceptable: I'd put up another picture but my wife just came in from washing my car and is fixing me a snack. Bernie

Leave the car in the Bella-Napoli Bakery parking lot over in Latham, have a coffee and something special on a Saturday morning. Sit in the window a watch the response to the car. Just a little for sale sign saying "Wave to the guy inside." You never know. Ooops! The response was from Albany. Well, try a place in Washington. I'll meet John and Jene for donuts instead. Bernie

Pssst. Did you call the guy? "These guys made me happy: Get it Done Transportation | Crossroads of Integrity and Professionalism Imagine, making me happy! I bought a car in Racine, Wi. that had a knock in the engine for shipment to western New York. I figured if it had a knock it ran so you could hear it; Nope. Wouldn't start, in a residential area and had to be towed to the transport truck. I gave them the OK on a Wednesday at 6 PM. The car was in my garage by 10 AM Saturday morning. The driver was happy and smiling when he arrived. He got a tip and there is a thumbs up from me on their website. I'll used them again but next time I want to hear the knock over the phone. Bernie"

Tom will remember the Olds we blew the muffler off. And we beat the check ball to death. I solved the problem. There are lots of nice cars with AFB's and Q-Jets. The best story was Ed Cole's early cold start testing in northern Wisconsin and the chickens. Get him to tell that one. His other memorable advice was that carburetor design is not engineering. It is art. It has been close to 20 years since I spent those few hours and that advice has helped me solve some apparently untenable engineering problems. Glad to here he's still kicking. Bernie

"This is a labor intensive process and will exceed cost of replacement in most cases unless you DIYS." Look! I only removed one word and captured the essence of our hobby. Bernie

There is a carb cosmetic treatment that can make a real good conversation piece. Here's the story: For a few years in the 1990's my daily driver was a 1956 Olds Holiday 4 door hardtop with a Super 88 engine and no Super badges. The car had a 4GC that I converted to electric choke. I was never able to revolve a lean stumble problem. When the engine was off I had a good shot of fuel from the accelerator pump. When it was running, no fuel. My final thoughts were that some porosity existed in the casting around the accelerator sump that connected to a vacuum passage and sucked it dry while running. Anyway, I could live with it and eventually sold the car. As part of the troubleshooting I took the car to Tom Toal who was a Rochester Products engineer. He started with them in 1962 on the tail end of 4GC production and is the guy who designed those extra long screws in the rear throats of the QuadraJets. He did that so they wouldn't fall in. I spent about 3 hours with him assembling and disassembling my carb and trying to de-bug it. He charged me $90 plus the kit. I would gladly spend that 10 more times just to hear his stories about his career at GM. One story was about the Gold Carburetors. Rochester would send out test carbs to the various GM divisions and the division engineers would tweak the settings for the best performance with an engine/transmission combination. When they found the exact setup they wanted for production they would send the carbs back with the preferred carb painted gold. That was the standard for a given model. Tom had a few gold painted ones sitting on a shelf in his garage. Now, if you are the kind of guy who likes to lean on a fender and spread it a little deep, just what color would your carb be? On the side, Tom was always requested to be taken away for engineering duties when Ed Cole was in Rochester, New York. Tom was his preferred driver. That gave Tom a whole bunch of historical stories from Ed that went back into the 1930's. I am really lucky to have had those few hours with Tom. How did we do? We didn't fix it. At one frustrating point Tom even asked me if I was a plant from someone trying to pull a joke on him. I wonder if there will be a gold carb at the Nationals. Bernie

Things change over the years. I think I made that Caddy bumper bench around 1994. Moving forward to 2013 I sit on the porch in a chair with a back: Got my own little table now, a 1980's fuel injection manual and probabilistic brain models. Well, the AFB's are all rebuilt. And a real good donut. Bernie

I got my standard '64 front and rear seat frames back from glass beading and painting late last December and haven't done much since. Too many cars, work, and the seats don't look "that" bad anyway. I'm just looking to bring the Riviera up to 100% before I croak. Has anyone replaced the rear seat foam? Are the front buns adaptable or should they be carved from a block. My concern it cutting the channels too deep and having them tear putting it together or during use. BTW, the seats in the car are '65 Custom. They came from a parts car in 1978. The upper outer shoulder seam of the driver's seat has separated. They don't need foam. I plan the buy new upholstery for that seat and make it a very good '65 custom interior for sale. They are nice and the car has been inside for the last 35 years, not all sun dried. Bernie

These guys made me happy: Get it Done Transportation | Crossroads of Integrity and Professionalism Imagine, making me happy! I bought a car in Racine, Wi. that had a knock in the engine for shipment to western New York. I figured if it had a knock it ran so you could hear it; Nope. Wouldn't start, in a residential area and had to be towed to the transport truck. I gave them the OK on a Wednesday at 6 PM. The car was in my garage by 10 AM Saturday morning. The driver was happy and smiling when he arrived. He got a tip and there is a thumbs up from me on their website. I'll used them again but next time I want to hear the knock over the phone. Bernie