tbirdman

OK I pulled the trigger on the 1912 Cadillac. So who wants to buy a sweet 64 convertible Bird? Asking 39K. Pictures are here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: superods</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Birdman....I appreciate your vigor. I am just like you in that regard. I too think manheim is very conservative in their numbers. When and if I complete this transaction, you will be the first to know. He wants 50k.... I am at 45 in my mind. Heck 5 grand is 5 grand. I have not gotten photos as yet. If they are as he states I am happy to pay the man 50k for this vehicle...and I believe if it were restored to original it would be worth some money. Unfortunately the straight 8's which cost you just as much to restore do not fetch the money the super 8's do. </div></div> Well not sure about vigor is the right term but I've been tracking the 32-34s as I own one. $45-50K is a great price for a #3 car. I would think for an avergae driver it would be closer to $100K. There is a 32 eight on ebay now where the asking If it is a #4 car then $50K is appropiate. Fully restored it should bring $150-$175K.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm still confused about the difference in Auction prices and Real value ??? Can you really go by Auction prices to determine the general value or should one only use book prices and Ignore what they sell for at Auctions, since they are usually so Radical. </div></div> No such things as book value in the Packard world. Prices will vary. Because these car are so few in numbers, I think you need to use all the data you can get. Auctions like private sales can be all over the map. If two people get lock into a price war, maybe the price can be unrealistic and overpriced. I always hear that auctions are always overpriced, but at the March RM auction a 32 eight roadster sold for $148K. It appeared to be a 2ish car. It just showed up on Hyman LTD webiste, who's a dealer. Guaranteed the asking price will be $190K and he will let it go for $180K-$168K. This car should give you a good indication of 32-34 eights value as the dealer is buying a car with the intent to resell. Any bets on :)the asking price?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: superods</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.manheimgold.com is another pricing guide that is far more conservative and to me more realistic for those automobiles used every day. The 33 victoria convertible is as follows....fair 64 good 75 exc 95 and show is 110 with a loan value of 68k. I am suspecting this vehicle is either fair or good. That means if I buy it for a little less than 50k...I could enjoy it for a few years and hope that it appreciates some in additon to the values listed in this site. If I could sell it for 15% more than I bought it for and used it for two years...that would be a worse case senerio. Just thinking out loud. </div></div> Show me where you can buy a show 33 Eight convertible victoria for $110 and I buy 10 of them for resale. That $110 is way off. I find the NADA guides for whatever reason, are more accurate.

I have notice quite a difference between the Eights, Super Eights and V12 for the 32-34 open models. A number 1 33 super eight sold at an auction this spring for $414K. Talking to someone who knew someone at the auction, they indicated it was a flawless car. Normally I would a top 33 Super eight at $250-275K. A top notch eight I would put at $175K; a driver at $125K. Top V12 in the 32-34 are bringing 400K-600K. Close cars are for super eights and eights are easily under 100K for a number 1 car.

I'm going to run the car again tonight to see what it does. I also should have an idea then how accurate the external gauge is. The crankcase spent the winter empty so maybe that caused an issue?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">35 is more normal but I don't think a change of over 50 to 35, after warmup, is Normal. None of my cars do that. Could the pressure-relief-valve be sticking until it gets hot? Where is the relief-valve located on the '32? Is it in a Y-valve at side or rear of engine? If so, could it have been damaged or changed when replacing the oil lines to it? </div></div> I believe the oil pressure relief valve is located under the crankcase. You need to remove about 6 bolts, remove a screen and then there is screw for adjustment. People I talked with thought it was normal that until you get the oil warmed up, there will be a signifciant variance in cold and hot oil pressure.

OK, so I couldn't let things lay. I borrowed two gauges from a friend. Now I have 4 gauges and only two agree The guy who restored my gauges said to bring one of the external guages over and he would see how accurate it was. I did on his suggestion run the car a while to get the oil real hot. When I did that, the oil pressure dropped to 35 lbs on the dash gauge. SO maybe the dash gauge is OK. I'll find out later this week when I get the external gauge that matches in the dash gauge measured for accuracy.

Us owners do have better eyesight than people just looking though I have found the better you make the car, the quicker some are to point out the flaws as they stick out more than a car with a lot of flaws.

Wouldn't it be better to use a new stud when replacing it. I'm no expert but I do wonder.

You know now that's the first thing we are going to point out that's wrong.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 327</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We got it hooked up to charge and when we plugged the charger in the needle read like it was totally empty. So it appeared to be charging but then the charger started cycling on and off about every 5-10 seconds. Is this normal? The charger is set on the correct 6 volt setting and is basically brand new. Also, the key in the ignition switch has like 3 spots it can be turned to. It will go straight up, then one click to the right, then one more click to the right. Which one of those is off? I think we might have left the dang key on and didn't know it for awhile. </div></div> I have found that the chargers need a minimum voltage before they will charge otherwise you will get that cycling that you discribed. This is just my personal experience trying to charge deeply discharged batteries.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That '36 120 has a lot of eyeball Ken, I recently drove a '36 120 sedan and thought it was a really capable road car. That said, I was checking out Vault Cars (Steve Snyder) out of CA today, and they list a 1912 cadillac as" coming soon". </div></div> Yes the Cadillac would be coming from Vault Cars. Steve has a great reputation. I'm close to making a decision whether to buy or stand pat.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the most part it's a whole different world, and owners of these cars tend to move in different circles </div></div> But We will Still let you talk to use, if you buy one. There's really Not much Brass on the '12 Caddy, is there? I didn't realize that. It does have the right side steering-wheel tho. </div></div> The 1911 had a lot of brass and Cadillac went to nickle trim in 1912.

Tom, If you want to service the Bijur pump I would recommend Stephen Babinsky AUTOMOTIVE RESTORATIONS, INC. 1050 Route 22 West Lebanon, New Jersey 08833 908-236-6400 He does an excellent job and is able to replace the internal diaphram without sawing the unit in half. Mine came back looking factory fresh. He does Pebble Beach Cars and I can see why with the results I got.

I have no idea how to adjust it, but it's interesting how the guage went slightly south over the winter.

OK seems like the oil gauge in the dash is off. With the new gauge I measured 50 pounds at cold. So I won't worry about it, just need to realize that I'm reading about 15-20 pounds high. On to the next problem.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry I don't recall where the 9th series oil pressure relief valve is, on the 11th seriesw it's external. If yours requires removal of the sump I can understand your reluctance, but the purpose of the adjustment is to limit the maximun pressure and I'd say 99% that's where you should be going. Loosen the locknut, back out the screw that bears on the spring that loads the plunger about 3/4 turn (?), and try it. You didn't say or I didn't catch it, are you saying your pressure increased after doing a valve job? I can't think of an explanation for that unless you replaced worn roller pins. </div></div> First thing I want to do is to double check the dash oil gauge as Speedster suggested. The only think I did to affect the oil pressure was to run new lines and replace the replica oil canister with another one. The valve job only consisted of grinding the valves and the seats. I'm suspecting: 1. faulty gauge 2. blockage in the oil canister or lines

I am running SAE 30 now in the engine. I plan to buy an oil pressure gauge and some fitting to try and determine if I have any restrictions. I'm almost thinking that the thin line that runs from the T at the back of the engine to the cowl fitting could be the culprit as being a small tube not much would it take to block it off slightly. The engine is in real good shape and we didn't touch any bearings over the winter, only a valve job.

I don't think the filter fittings are the issue as I just bought standard flare fittings with pipe thread ends that screwed into the oil filter canister. The fittings were the same as used on the previous oil canister.

I seem to have too high of an oil pressure. I though maybe it was because I used 20W50. Using SAE 30 brought the starting oil pressure down a little but it significantly right of the last mark on the oil gauge which is 50. Before this winter project, when the car first started, the oil pressure was in the guage area however I can't remember what it was. Tonight when I reeplaced the 20W50 with SAE 30, I only rean the engine for a few minutes as I didn't want to hurt anything. What I did this winter was replace the oil lines to the filter, replace the oil line to the fitting on the cowl. Bought a replica oil filter. Mechanically to the engine I just did a valve job. Any ideas? Other than that the engine seems smoother than when I started the project.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Great! Glad to hear that it's running again. </div></div> I really appreciate all of the help that I got for this winter project so far.

Well I could never get the crush washer to crush on the large opening so I went with the red fiber washer. Started the car up today. No major issues. One slight gas leak at one of the fuel fittings that I need to fix. Also need to put lighter oil in the engine. I was running 20W50 which was too heavy. Also need to get the shutters to operate better. Not sure if I have everything properly installed on the linkage. Re-torqued the head bolts and set the timing. Ran very smooth. Waiting for the manifold to cool down before I re-torque those bolts, but no leaks there either.

I looked at Shappy's site. He's got the same model list for almost double what I cna get this car for, though it's a mint car while this is more of a 2 car with the right detailing. Hard thing to figure out is how much he comes off the asking price. Some dealers come off quite a bit. I also think if I want to, pick up this #2 condition 36 120 convertible from a local owner for a little less price than the Cadillac. This car has been well maintained by the owner. Definitely not enough money or space for all my wishes. Though I don't see how collectors maintain their huge collection...by huge I mean more than 2 I'm pretty limited to two cars for space plus $.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken, I can't compare to a Packard from an owner's point of view but will make a couple general Good luck - when do you need to make a decision? </div></div> Probably I need to make a decision in the next couple of days. The price I think may be slightly high but again like Packards not much data to look at. However the dealer is a real reputable person and I feel coomfortable also talking with the owner. I'm willing to pay extra for a well sorted car then go cheap and find yourself in a hole you never will get out of. Again my major concern is a really giving up the long distance touring comfort of the Bird. Also the Bird is well sorted out unlike most cars you see for sale. But buying a Brass car would introduce me to a whole another world of people and things to learn about which is a very positive thing. I also I had Brass cars are on the upswing again as new younger blood gets interested in them. It's pretty amazing that I'm considering a car that in 3 years will be a 100 years old.