Oldsfan
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Posts posted by Oldsfan
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The owners manual says you can push it in neutral up to a speed of 20 mph, then pull it down into drive (make sure the ignition is on). But I wouldn't want to do it....
Paul
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Geez, I've got so many things I want to address here. This is gonna be long...
Firstly, Bodine, one of your first posts says that the two former owners of this car believe it to have belonged to Ms. Henderson. Obviously they have no documentation, or you would have it. What leads them to say/believe this car may have been owned by her?
Next, I agree with Chuck - this doesn't appear to be a Mickey Mouse job. Someone went to quite a bit of work (and expense) to fabricate those spear pieces, as well as the others. I no longer think these are stock '62 moldings that have been added. And I admit that you couldn't take a '62 molding and put that much of a curve into it. We still haven't been told if any of these pieces are stainless or cast and chromed. If any of them are cast, it would be interesting to see if there are any casting numbers on the back of them. I also agree that the retaining hardware on the back is a little crude. My '62 side moldings use those plastic capped nuts that are shown holding the factory pieces on. But we all know that when GM put together cars for display purposes, it was the outward appearance that counted. It could have been bubble gum, chicken wire and duct tape holding it all together underneath, just as long as it looked good on the outside. Don't forget, many of GMs "Dream Cars" didn't even run/stop under their own power.
We learned something here - I don't know if anyone else caught it. Even eagle-eyed Chuck didn't say anything. This car has light blue and dark blue paint under where that molding that is missing, which leads me to believe that the moldings weren't on the car when it was resprayed. But then again, there is dark blue overspray on the attaching hardware inside the quarter. Some touchup work after the moldings were installed? Collision repair? The world may never know...
Chuck - notice the overhang (for lack of a better term) of the front fender aluminum panel bead molding in the straight-down photo - does yours overhang like that?
Now, let's deal with the top pinchweld moldings. There's a hole on each side, assumed for drainage purposes. I don't know what would drain there. The top drains down inside the car through the drip rail. Not really anywhere for those moldings to catch water that they would need to drain. I think this looks like the location for a snap. If Chuck would look at one of his many convertibles, I'll bet he would find s snap in this location. Why there would only be two snaps on the whole perimeter, and why they'd be missing are beyond me. Or, maybe it's some sort of locating hole for the hard boot. Are there pins or something on the underside of the boot side pieces? I'm surprized this car even came with the soft boot - there's no way to attach it. I checked the full sized Olds pinchweld molding part number against similar Cadillac numbers and they are different. I also noticed that Cadillac stopped offering a hard dust cover in 1960. Even the '61 to '64 Eldorados didn't have hard dust covers available, according to the parts book. So it appears this hard dust cover, and the one on the Deauville, are indeed special - as are the snap-less pinchweld moldings. I was hoping to see these pieces as stock Cadillac, but that is not the case. One thing - as proved by the Deauville photos - it came out of GM.
Helen Earley - oh, how we miss you, Helen! God rest your soul. I think you would have known something about this special car, or would have been able to dig something up about it - and would have enjoyed the hunt. Now it's GM corporate red tape for us. We have lost a great resource, but more importantly, a wonderful person.
Jim Walkinshaw - is not a member of the NAOC (which I find strange). I have no contact information for him. The trouble with Jim is that, while he did co-author the books with Helen, he spent his career at Oldsmobile in manufacturing engineering, not sales/public relations, as Helen did. If one of the two of them knew anything, my money would be on Helen.
I am not aware that Ron Miller has seen this. I will draw his attention to it. His car did sell, at Carlisle, to a gentleman in Florida. I heard nothing about South Africa. I am assuming you know why the car was sold. If not, PM me and I'll give you the details.
I doubt you will find a build sheet. It is my understanding that build sheets were discarded in Lansing, instead of hidden in the cars like they were at various other plants. I have had many Lansing built cars and have never found a build sheet in any of them. The best I have done is a small tag under the carpet with a few trim codes on it.
Hard dust boot markings - I believe the S.O. to stand for Shop Order. I think I recall reading this somewhere before, I think in regards to the F-88. A shop order is something that would be filed by someone in the vehicle engineering department for special work to be done to a vehicle. I don't know if this would have been Oldsmobile Engineering, which would have been located in Lansing at the time, or if it would have been at the Technical Center level in Warren. Either way, I'm sure the shop order is long gone. I'm assuming 30114 or 30133 is the shop order number. The 3 could indicate it as being an Oldsmobile shop order, since that is how their body style numbers started out - but that is just a guess. I think it's interesting that the hard dust cover has those little "booties" on the front edges.
"Parts guru" - that's a good one. My boss should see that. I think he'd have a different term for you...
Paul
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Larry,
If your wheel covers are similar to the example you've given, and they fit the rims that you were given, then you've got 14" rims. The wheel covers you've given as an example were the standard 14" wheel cover they used in '65.
Here's a '65 98 with the optional deluxe wheelcovers. They're a little nicer.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Olds...1QQcmdZViewItem
A '65 Jetstar I with the correct two-blade spinner wire wheel covers:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VINTAGE-M...1QQcmdZViewItem
And another '65 Jetstar I with the correct two-blade spinner cast aluminum wheel covers. These take a special wheel.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-65-O...1QQcmdZViewItem
The largest tire I was able to get without going to Coker was a 225/14 from Cooper. I had them on a '67 98 and a '62 Starfire convertible. I think they are too small. Coker offers 235/14 radials. They will run in excess of $200 each with the shipping. I went with them on my '62 Starfire coupe and sometimes wonder if it shouldn't be a size bigger still (which isn't available). I think the original bias tire size on the '65 to '68 cars was 8.55-14 or something like that. It should be in your owners manual. These are available as reproductions at about 3/4s the cost of the big radials.
Paul
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bodine,
Which seam on the driver's side is your photo of? It can't be the fender to door seam - there is not enough clearance there for the door to get past the molding without ripping it off. If it is of the door to quarter seem, I find that odd, as moldings usually end flat with the door edge instead of protruding past it. Going past the edge like that gives the opportunity to get caught on clothes or damage surrounding vehicles. This seem looks more like the passenger's side door to fender.
Everything Chuck said about your data plate is correct, except for the fact that we have to send him back to school and teach him the calendar again.
We are assuming the IBM codes were the same for '61 as they were for '62. I don't know why they would be different.The '61 Starfire shop manual supplement claims that Starfires were built in the main plant in Lansing as well as at the BOP plants around the country. I don't recall seeing a non-Lansing Starfire. All of the "good" cars came out of Lansing, and one would think that Olds would want all of it's flagship cars to be "good" ones. There was a period of time when all 98s were built in Lansing, so it would stand to reason that the '61 Starfires might have been as well, in spite of what the shop manual says. There was also a time when all convertibles were built in Lansing due to the special bodies and frames and the lower production numbers, but we know this not to be the case in '61 and '62.
Chuck - yes, I think it is possible to put a '62 quarter molding on a '61 without kinking it. It depends how close to the point you need to get. We haven't seen a photo of this area yet. Anything is possible, as evidenced by this:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/oldsfan/MySite/unknown.html
I'll tell you what. I have a quarter molding off of the parts car. How 'bout if I bring it out there to Chicago and we drill a couple of holes in the side of your Starfire and see if we can make it fit?
I,too, think we've eliminated the possibility of this car being an early or pre-production show car by the information on the data plate. Also, we've eliminated the possibility of it being a very late production car with some '62 trim thrown on it. I don't think the '62 trim would have been laying around the factory when this car was built.
So, someone did something at some point. We also now know that the color has been changed. The Glacier Blue can be seen underneath the top coat (which appears to be too dark to be stock '61 Azure Mist), so it seems reasonable that these pieces were added when the car was resprayed. As I said, anything's possible - see above.
Regarding the hard top cover and no-snaps pinchweld moldings - there was a time when Cadillac was big on those items, especially for Eldorados. It's possible a '61 Eldo hard boot and moldings have been employed. I believe a Starfire would have used the same pinchweld moldings as a 98, which would have used the same moldings as a base Cadillac convertible, which was the same body as the Eldo, so Eldo pinchweld moldings should interchange with Starfire moldings.
Here are the photos I took of the trim on my '62. This is the seam between the driver's side fender and door. Notice the paint chip, eluding to the fact that there is practically NO clearance here. These moldings are stainless, not cast, and have 4 surfaces to them. Depending on the angle taken, they can appear triangular.
Paul
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I don't know about the distributors. I would guess they would interchange, but wouldn't want to bet my life on it.
I ran into a guy at a cruise a few months ago with a very stock looking '52 Super 88 convertible (303). He told me he had trouble with the original heads and had replaced them with 324s, so they must work. He also had tri-carbs on it, but I forget what he was using for an intake.
Paul
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rocketraider</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then I thought someone might have transplanted some 62 outline trim onto it, but that's different around the door key opening.</div></div>
That's a different piece of trim, Glenn. There are actually 4 horizonal strips on the doors and quarters of a '62 Starfire, if you count the bead molding on the panels. '62s have a stainless top molding like this '61 has, then right below it is another stainless molding, framing the top of the aluminum panel, that stops short at the lock cylinder, with a chrome piece on the other side of the cylinder. There is a third stainless molding that frames the bottom of the panel.
I think the top moldings on this '61 is stock '62, which would account for the bevelled edges. I think they also used '62 upper moldings for the lower moldings, for continuity. Front fender upper pieces are most likely modified '62, or fabricated from scratch. Front fender lower pieces are probably cut-down and modified '62 upper door pieces. Lower door moldings are probably '62 upper door moldings. Quarter moldings are most likely cut-down and modified '62 quarter pieces, with the end caps being fabricated.
Lots of work, but it could be done. Somebody did it.
Like Chuck said, it would be interesting to see the numbers from the Fisher Body plate to know if we are dealing with an early or a late car, and whether there's any unusual trim codes.
Paul
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Unfortunately, I don't have a parts book that covers '65s. I've got a gap for '64 and '65. There was an optional 15" rim listed for '66. It is different than the 15" rims listed for '67 and '68. I would imagine the '65s would have used the same 15" rims that the '66s did. Must have been a police or trailer towing option. '66 lists a special dog dish hubcap for 15" wheels, but not a 15" full wheel disc. Again, I imagine '65 would have been the same, meaning if you were given dog dishes, they would be your only choice. If you were given full wheel discs, I would venture to guess that they're not stock if the rims are in fact 15". But, I would not assume the stock rims are 15" just because the aftermarket rims are. I've seen owners put 15" rims and newer wheelcovers on these cars because it's easier to get the larger size tires that these cars should have. You should check your stock rims to see what you have. A picture of the wheelcover would help, also.
14" wheel cover options (for full size cars) in '65 were the standard full wheel disc, a deluxe wheel disc, simulated wire wheel discs (with 2 bar spinners) and the cast aluminum wheel discs that bolted to special rims (also with 2 bar spinners). A dog dish may have been standard.
Paul
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After a little more research on my end, I have determined this to fit '73 to '86 full size GM pickup trucks with CB radios. I had to go to an old paper parts catalog for that.
NOS for $4. I may as well scrap this one.
Paul
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Gee...
I wanted to go to the RM auction, but when my buddy and I found out you had to buy the $80 catalog, we decided to skip it.
I didn't know they were giving them out in the swap meet - where was that? We'd have really been upset if we'd have coughed up the $80 and then found out they were giving them away free...
I heard an announcement over the PA system about the preview on Thursday, but I thought I heard it said that a catalog was required for that, too. But it sounds like they were letting people in free anyway.
Bummer.
Paul
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I bought a power antenna, for parts, at Hershey last week. I would like to sell what is left over, but don't know who to market it to. The mast tube is tagged as "Ford." Looks very similar to my '62 Olds antenna, so it must be from around the same time period, but is definitely not GM due to the barrel-like connectors in the plug. It came with a bezel, which I can't identify. The bezel has a matching rubber mounting pad. Could be Ford, Mercury or Lincoln, I guess. There is a number on the back of the bezel - 336289, which seems like a GM number, but I don't recognize it as being a GM bezel. A Google search of "336289 bezel" shows some references that seem to point to Chevrolet, but again, I don't recognize it as such. Two photos below. Anyone have an idea what it fits?
Paul
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packards1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">plenty of room </div></div>
Did anybody see the poor guy with the white '65 Skylark convertible? He was parallel parked between a huge mid '70s Cadillac and a Dodge conversion van. If for some reason he'd have had to move that car, he'd have had to drag it out sideways. There's no way he would have been to pull that car out of it's space - or put it back in. Parallel parking should be eliminated, or much bigger spaces given.
Paul
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GM part number 25010469. Discontinued from GM. Contact VPI in Wisconsin - 877-846-8243.
Paul
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: charlier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">- Consider changing the way dash plaques are distributed at the show. Making each vehicle stop to get a dash plaque takes valuable time.</div></div>
Dash plaques? There were dash plaques? I didn't get a dash plaque in the whole six times my car was stopped to direct me where to go (including that guy on the power trip with the stupid, irritating whistle). I thought they just did away with them. My buddy behind me didn't get one, either.
Here's another thing I saw that I thought needed addressing - bicycles. I saw a group of three people walking around with bicycles. These bicycles had no place being walked around on the field. Not only was there the chance that one of them could have damaged a vehicle, but they really interfered with foot traffic, which is difficult to begin with. Baby strollers are bad enough, and you're not going to be able to avoid them, but bicycles should be banned. There is just no reason for them to be there.
Also, there was a kid around my car with a skate board-looking thing with a steering tiller on it. The woman with the car next to me asked him sweetly to be careful - I was a little more direct and told him to get away from the car with it. He was less than 6 inches away from my irreplacable aluminum panels, all the while twirling and fooling with that contraption, all while the father was over gawkling/taking pictures of another car.
If you've got a field with limited access such as this one, then someone should be manning the gates and stopping items such as this from entering the field.
I've seen many comparisons to concours events. Never been to one - but I'll bet they don't allow bicycles, baby strollers and other such objects on the show field.
Paul
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I believe someone once told me that you can't put a J-2 setup on a 394. Something about the intake not meeting up with the heads, or port size, or deck height, or something. I would say you can't. But I could be wrong.
Paul
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Just to expand on what Joe said...
The parts book says this:
In '73, W60 was the sales and VIN code for hearses and ambulances. The Fisher Body model code for an ambulance was 73-3CW40, while a hearse was 73-3CW90. I guess those numbers would be on the Fisher Body data plate.
As you mentioned, your VIN codes for a '72. It must have been very late in the model year.
The '72 sales and VIN code was T60 for both hearses and ambulances. Both also shared the Fisher Body model code of 72-38860. Ambulances had an Oldsmobile Sales Code of 8840, while hearses had 8890.
I don't know if that help you or not. I was looking for something else in the parts book today and stumbled upon these numbers. Kinda confusing.
Paul
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Has this been done yet? I can take care of it, but don't want to send a duplicate.
Paul
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I just looked at a Bill Hirsch ad and he doesn't offer Oldsmobile red.
Paul
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Oh, guess I won't be going to that auction after all...
Paul
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Both shades of red are available from Fusick Automotive.
Paul
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'62s have a line running from the carb inlet to the fuel filter outlet, which is mounted on the oil filler tube. This line is shaped a little bit like a question mark. Then, there is a line that runs from the fuel filter inlet down to the fuel pump outlet. If you've got an a/c equipped car, there is also a vapor line that runs from the fuel filter back to the tank, but that is just a rubber line that is secured with a clamp.
Paul
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The '69 salesman's book that I have says the destination charge for a Toronado to central PA was $102, plus an additional $4.30 if it was a/c equipped.
Paul
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I've not heard of her owning a Starfire, but that doesn't mean that she didn't. I have heard of her owning a '66 Toronado. Went to her ex in a divorce settlement, then to a museum, then was on eBay, and not in the best of shape.
Paul
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I looked around on eBay and found a '64 Starfire with the same style water pump and front cover that the blue '61 sports. It has been many years since I owned a '64 Luxury Sedan and to be truthful, I never noticed a difference.
I guess the guy who told me you couldn't swap '61/'62 and '63/'64 engines, without changing the front cover because of the lower hose, was wrong.
Learned something new today.
Thanks, Chuck. Good catch.
Paul
florence henderson
in Oldsmobile - General
Posted
You were on the right track, Glenn, but I don't think it's the same trim.
Paul