Matt Harwood

+1 to this. Your disconnect is killing the "Keep Alive Memory" which is what the computer has learned about running that particular engine. When you start it cold after wiping the computer's memory, it's running in open-loop mode (no feedback from O2 sensors) and a basic fuel map that is designed to make it run, but usually not perfectly in a non-stock application. Once it starts gathering information and fine-tuning the fuel and ignition maps and the O2 sensors have heated up enough to be sending good signals, it learns quickly. But then disconnecting it wipes all that out. You're probably not hurting anything by forcing it to re-learn every time, but most ECMs have long term block memory that refines the engine's state of tune the longer you drive. Essentially, the more you drive, the better it gets. It will run better under all conditions by keeping it on a trickle charger rather than a hard shut-off like you've been doing. I can almost guarantee this is the source of your problems. Hope this helps--don't you love it when the cure is easy?

After all the E-mails and calls about the 1950 Ford F6 we sold a few weeks ago, perhaps this handsome, rugged Mercury is a viable alternative. Many folks don't even realize Mercury sold trucks, mostly in Canada and not in very large numbers, but apparently the story is that Henry Ford didn't want the slightly more powerful, upscale Mercurys stealing Ford sales. Whatever the reason, only 4817 of these were built in 1946, and only a handful are in the US today. This one offers a restoration that was done in the early '90s, collected a bunch of trophies, and has been driven and enjoyed as a hobby vehicle ever since. It still looks fantastic, starts quickly, and runs quite well, with a slightly larger flathead V8 than used in Fords, so performance is entertaining. It's been finished in correct Village Green with black fenders, giving it an honest old truck look that's familiar to us all, and please note the tidy yellow pinstripes that dress up the commercial vehicle. There's also quite a bit more chrome on the Mercury than on comparable Fords, including the grille and hood trim, which proudly calls out "Mercury 1-Ton." All the chrome is very good to excellent, with no damage and only light signs of age. The oak bed is beautifully refinished and has probably never carried any cargo since the restoration, and the matching stake sides are included. The gray vinyl interior is spartan at best, but again the Mercury includes perks that weren't available on Fords, including the sliding rear window which is a fantastic way to ventilate the cabin--if you've never had a pickup with a sliding rear window, you'll be surprised by how effective it is. The gauges are all functional, as is the under-dash heater, and aftermarket turn signals and seat belts were added during the restoration. A full fiberboard headliner gives it a finished feel, and the rubber floor mat is like new and only a little dirty, but not ripped, dry, or cracked. The engine is an aluminum-headed 239 cubic inch flathead V8 that runs superbly, with that great flathead sound and a near-silent idle. The engine bay is a bit grungy from use, but an afternoon spent detailing it will pay big dividends, since all the correct details are still there. It is completely stock, without any of the usual (and questionable) upgrades that flatheads often suffer, including 6V electricals with generator, the original distributor and factory carburetor. Connected to a 3-speed manual transmission, performance is lively out on the open road, and as a slightly larger model, it actually rides quite well despite its 1-ton rating. Braking is firm and positive, the steering tracks well, and while I don't personally like the wide whites on commercial vehicles, they kind of work with the upscale Mercury's look. A rare, fun, useful hobby vehicle that will be the only one at the show. Asking $29,900 and we're always open to offers. Thanks!

*SOLD* Thank you!

I've been working on bringing this 98% original 1941 Cadillac 60 Special I bought two months ago back to life. As far as I can tell, all it has ever had is tires, exhaust, battery, belts, hoses, and maybe plugs. The first thing I did, even before they were done pulling it off the trailer, was to remove the seat covers that have been on since April of 1941. I discovered a gorgeous original interior that's in amazing condition. I took a bit of a gamble without ever seeing the upholstery, but I'm pleased it paid off. Two weeks ago we did a light wet sand and buff to revitalize the original Antoinette Blue paint. It looks black, but it's definitely dark, dark blue, and while it's a bit thin in a spots and shows some signs of use, it shined up remarkably well. I might repaint the passenger's side fender skirt, which has some touch-ups that are fairly noticeable, but since it's original, I'm not sure I should. Then just last week I added a set of fresh wide whites. Voila! Instant heart-breaker. Seriously, none of you blackwall tire guys can argue that this car doesn't look about a zillion times better with wide whites, can you? What a difference! Better yet, with a fresh fuel pump, it starts instantly, idles almost silently, and drives like a million bucks. I'm so impressed by how well it goes down the road. No wonder the CCCA guys love these cars for touring. I'm extremely pleased with the results on this one. If I still own it in October, I'm planning on driving it to Hershey for HPOF competition. Hydramatic all the way!

I think on a car like this there's really no harm. It looks great and the owner did it the way he wanted it rather than worrying about judging (he has a garage full of trailer queens that are immaculate). This one is a driver for him. I'm glad he at least chose a factory color and went with a correct interior and didn't really modify anything aside from the radio in the glovebox. It's just a great-driving, ultra-clean old Buick that could be a lot of fun for someone. I had a blast driving it, the A/C works as intended, and it gets a ton of attention out on the road. I don't know how the judges would score it, but incorrect color notwithstanding, it's quite good. Admit it, we've all seen more extensively (and questionably) modified cars on the show field and gave them a pass, right?

Super solid, rust-free car with a recent frame-on restoration, and thankfully not a fake GS wanna-be. New Riviera Red paint (original color code H Green Mist), fresh black bucket seat interior with console, ice cold factory A/C, recently rebuilt 340 with 2-barrel carburetor. The owner has spent quite a bit on this car recently to bring it up to his exceptionally high standards (he owns a fleet of AACA and CCCA-winning machinery), and I suspect his perfectionism prevents him from realizing any profits on the sales of his cars. I was blown away by how good this car looks in person, but even more so by how it drives. The 340 makes plenty of power, even with a 2-barrel carburetor, and I think the Riviera Red paint is a much better choice. Bodywork is laser-straight and completely rust-free, and the only real flaw I can find is a fingernail-sized chip on the edge of one of the fender skirts. There's absolutely no trace of the original color anywhere in or under the car, so the paint job was done on a completely disassembled car. Floors, including the trunk, are spotless originals with no patches or replacement parts. Chrome is excellent, with many replated or replaced parts, and the only areas showing their age are the rear bezels around the taillights, which are original. The black bucket seat interior is a rare find, and according to the cowl tag, it's correct (code 198=black vinyl, B=bucket seats). New carpets, door panels, seat covers have been installed, and the headliner was custom made just for this car because the owner didn't like how the one from the interior kit fit. Everything works, including the A/C which has an R134a conversion, although one of the heater levers is missing its knob, which is just about the only fault I can find inside. The factory-issued AM radio remains in the dash, with a new AM/FM/CD stereo head unit stashed in the glove box feeding a pair of 6x9 speakers on the rear package shelf. And although it isn't shown in photos, there is a matching spare tire that goes with the car. New rubber seals installed throughout, including trunk, doors, and window fuzzies, making this car silent on the road and completely rattle-free. The engine is a 340 cubic inch V8. The odometer shows 56,560 miles, but there's no way to know whether that's authentic, although the engine and transmission have been recently rebuilt so I'm thinking it must be the second trip around. It starts quickly without any pumping of the accelerator, and idles perfectly right off the bat. Very impressive. The front suspension was recently rebuilt, and new brakes have been fitted at all four corners. Dual exhaust probably wasn't standard with the 2-barrel engine, but it sounds great without being too loud. Stylish Buick Road Wheels are fitted with 14-inch Goodyears that still have a lot of life left in them, but I think I'd install some redlines if this were my car. A really nice Buick that needs nothing to enjoy as-is, or just a few tweaks to be a show car. Asking only $18,900 and we're always open to reasonable offers. Thanks for looking!

Super solid, rust-free car with a recent frame-on restoration. New Riviera Red paint (original color code H Green Mist), fresh black bucket seat interior with console, ice cold factory A/C, recently rebuilt 340 with 2-barrel carburetor. The owner has spent quite a bit on this car recently to bring it up to his exceptionally high standards (he owns a fleet of AACA and CCCA-winning machinery), and I suspect his perfectionism prevents him from realizing any profits on the sales of his cars. I was blown away by how good this car looks in person, but even more so by how it drives. The 340 makes plenty of power, even with a 2-barrel carburetor, and I think the Riviera Red paint is a much better choice. Bodywork is laser-straight and completely rust-free, and the only real flaw I can find is a fingernail-sized chip on the edge of one of the fender skirts. There's absolutely no trace of the original color anywhere in or under the car, so the paint job was done on a completely disassembled car. Floors, including the trunk, are spotless originals with no patches or replacement parts. Chrome is excellent, with many replated or replaced parts, and the only areas showing their age are the rear bezels around the taillights, which are original. The black bucket seat interior is a rare find, and according to the cowl tag, it's correct (code 198=black vinyl, B=bucket seats). New carpets, door panels, seat covers have been installed, and the headliner was custom made just for this car because the owner didn't like how the one from the interior kit fit. Everything works, including the A/C which has an R134a conversion, although one of the heater levers is missing its knob, which is just about the only fault I can find inside. The factory-issued AM radio remains in the dash, with a new AM/FM/CD stereo head unit stashed in the glove box feeding a pair of 6x9 speakers on the rear package shelf. And although it isn't shown in photos, there is a matching spare tire that goes with the car. New rubber seals installed throughout, including trunk, doors, and window fuzzies, making this car silent on the road and completely rattle-free. The engine is a correct 340 cubic inch V8. The odometer shows 56,560 miles, but there's no way to know whether that's authentic, although the engine and transmission have been recently rebuilt so I'm thinking it must be the second trip around. It starts quickly without any pumping of the accelerator, and idles perfectly right off the bat. Very impressive. The front suspension was recently rebuilt, and new brakes have been fitted at all four corners. Dual exhaust probably wasn't standard with the 2-barrel engine, but it sounds great without being too loud. Stylish Buick Road Wheels are fitted with 14-inch Goodyears that still have a lot of life left in them, but I think I'd install some redlines if this were my car. A really nice Buick that needs nothing to enjoy as-is, or just a few tweaks to be a show car. Asking only $18,900 and we're always open to reasonable offers. Thanks for looking.

The best looking pickup truck ever made, in my opinion. Someone please save it!

Thanks for the excellent feedback everyone. I'll look into an affidavit and the no-title states. We have a buyer, but he's skittish without a title, for obvious reasons. The car still has the original dual SU carburetors with the original adapters used to get the intake manifold onto the Buick V8. No emissions controls or electronics of any kind. My guess is that with left-hand-drive and a metric speedometer, it was probably destined for mainland Europe which, in 1973, had zero emissions laws (or pretty lax ones anyway). I mean the car is untouched--that might be original Malvern, England air in the tires. He's done the heater hoses, radiator hoses, and a set of spark plugs, and that's it. Truthfully, the car and the story are legit, and I think the original owner (our client) just slipped through the cracks. He knew nothing about bringing a car into the country and apparently the Morgan was kind of a spur-of-the-moment purchase just because he was at the factory. He didn't take it home with him, it took 18 months to get it built, and they did drive it to the shipyard, loaded it on a boat, and delivered it to the US. It came through customs honestly and knowing this fellow, I doubt he did anything sneaky or pulled any strings--I think he just got lucky and the folks at customs were either not paying attention or didn't care, or simply took him at his word that it wasn't for use on the roads (a lot of cars came in on that "promise"). There was no deception involved, no cloak-and-dagger sneaking around, and if he'd had a problem with the importing of the car, he'd tell us about it. But the truth is, they unloaded the car, looked at it, called him, collected some nominal sum in taxes, and he drove it home. He says that he had some kind of bill of sale from when he bought the car, and that's what he used to get historical plates, but also says that the DMV kept it for some reason. Whether that's the case I have no way of knowing, but he doesn't have it anymore. We're in contact with the factory hoping they'll have some original records, and we'll definitely pursue the other options. But I want to make it clear that this isn't a black market car that was smuggled in, not a cobbled-up car from overseas that was outfitted by a gray-market shop, it was just a guy who loved Morgans slipping through the cracks, and then not paying attention to paperwork for 40 years.

This car has been bouncing around auctions for years. O'Quinn bought it for a crazy amount of money that nobody will ever match, history notwithstanding. And it's a good thing it was armored, because it must have been UNGODLY slow. I know how ponderous my 1929 Cadillac sedan is, and adding 4000 pounds of armor surely didn't do anything for performance, handling, and braking. I bet a cop on a bicycle would have no problems catching it, and a young one might be able to catch it on foot! Fortunately, the armor has been removed (I wonder how they got those wire wheels and tires to survive the weight on those ancient roads?), so it probably drives quite nicely today. A neat footnote in history to be sure.

The correct mindset on a car like this, sadly, is probably to forget about values and getting your money back later and just focus on enjoying the car. I prefer to think of the old car hobby as a vacation--you don't go to Disneyland and try to figure out how to sell your pictures for a profit, do you? No, you spend your money, you have a great time, you build memories, and you have fun with your family. THAT is the essence of the old car hobby, not money and auctions and profits (and I do this for a living!). Neither of these cars will ever be worth more than about $20,000 no matter what you do to them, stock or custom. I would argue as a person who watches the market constantly that they will be more valuable restored to stock condition, but it's all relative. Customs are very hard to sell because you not only have to find another guy with the exact same tastes as you, but you'll need to find someone who trusts your workmanship and at under $20,000, doesn't feel like building his own. Home-built customs, in my experience, are virtually impossible to sell, no matter how nice they are, and a 4-door sedan with generic parts thrown at it will be an anchor. And on a personal note, I'm REALLY tired of going to shows and cruise-ins and seeing old 4-door sedans with crusty Chevy 350s in them, some kind of amateurish paint job, and seats ripped out of a late-model and bolted in place. I'd encourage you to experience the fun that an original car can bring. A hot rod will drive like a modern car, but the whole point (to me, anyway) is to have a car that DOESN'T drive like everything else on the road. And as I said up above, both cars are quite capable in original condition so don't think that you must have a crate motor to be able to drive them, because it just isn't true. I show up with one of the original cars out of our inventory, or either of my Cadillacs, and people crowd around to see them, completely ignoring the hot rods around them. Everyone has already been there, done that, and today, it's the original cars that are the anomalies, not the customs (which aren't really all that custom anyway when you think about it--some guy just bolted on parts from a catalog). Anyway, you're going to be underwater before you spray a drop of paint on either of those cars, so thinking of it as an investment is probably a mistake. That's whey there are several folks up there recommending that you spend a little more and get a complete, running, driving car to enjoy immediately--it's ALWAYS cheaper to go that route, I don't care how handy you are in the garage. Hope this helps!

I don't know that it was smuggled, it came through customs and was inspected and he paid the taxes, but it wasn't US-legal and I think the big asterisk is that he promised not to drive it on public roads. Why Morgan didn't give him some kind of ownership document is puzzling, though. It's not so much that the car is illegal, its that it has no title and there's no precedent set for a 1973 Morgan, which isn't supposed to be here in the first place. I'll keep you updated, since I can't be the only one facing this issue. Thanks.

So we just acquired this amazing 1973 Morgan +8. It's amazing for a few reasons: original owner, 2241 original kilometers (not a misprint) and, the part that's causing us problems: 1973 Morgans were never imported into the US and this car technically shouldn't exist. This gentleman bought it on his honeymoon in 1972, when he visited the Morgan factory. Since the cars were not permitted in the US, he had it boxed and shipped to his home somehow (no, it's not one of the propane conversions). It arrived with a bill of sale only, no title, and he promised to never drive it on public roads, but as soon as he was able, he acquired historical plates for it. Now that we're trying to sell it for him, the fact that it doesn't have a title is problematic. We're contacting the Morgan factory to see if they still have records and perhaps can supply an MSO or original invoice or bill of sale, but it'll be a few weeks yet. Has anyone found a way to do this? I know Maine and Alabama will generate titles for cars, but both are asking for this particular car to be examined in person (since it shouldn't exist), and we're hoping not to have to ship it around the country. Any advice? This is an extraordinary survivor and probably quite a significant car for Morgan aficionados. Heck, the side curtains and top are still in their original paper wrappers! Thanks in advance!

I hope I have some useful perspective here, as I own a '41 Century sedanette, and just purchased a '41 Cadillac 60 Special, and there's a 1940 Century convertible sedan in the showroom that I've driven extensively. One, I'm flat-out ASTOUNDED by what a fantastic road car the '41 Cadillac is. Mine has Hydramatic, and while I was one of those guys who eschewed the slushbox, it's anything but! Shifts are crisp, and with it comes a 3.36 rear gear, so it cruises at 65 MPH effortlessly. I mean, this car is FAST, smooth, easy to drive, and, well, pretty much everything you'd expect from a Cadillac. For all intents and purposes, it's a modern car. I'm not surprised why they're the most popular car on CCCA Caravans. I'm simply blown away by how well the thing works. However, I'm a Buick guy, and the 1940 Century that just showed up in the showroom last week has spent about 150 miles with me behind the wheel. It, too, is quite fleet of foot (tire?) and a pleasure to drive. It's not as smooth or effortless as the Cadillac, but it does have a more performance-oriented feel that's hard to quantify. The Cadillac is a true luxury car, but the Buick seems to have a bit of an edge. The engine is a bit louder (but in a good way!), and with the manual transmission, it's more involved. Handling and braking are a wash (I bet many of the same parts are used on the two cars). I like the sound of the straight-8, and the Buick's mechanical lifters versus the Cadillac's hydraulic ones. I will also note that this particular Century appears to have the high-speed 3.60 gears and cruises at 60-65 MPH pretty well, although it's quite a bit busier than the Cadillac, which you can't even hear running at highway speeds. If I were in your position, I'd buy the Cadillac. The restoration costs will be about the same, but the Cadillac is arguably a superior car in every way. The Century has a hot-rod reputation, but as a 4-door sedan, it's just kind of blending in with other 1940s cars. The fastback Cadillac has some style, and as I said, the performance has really impressed me in a big way (at least with the Hydramatic--I bet with a manual transmission, it would be a wash as far as performance and "road feel"). Ultimately, the Cadillac will also be worth more than the Buick, although it is not, as others have pointed out, a Full Classic. You can't go wrong with either one, but if the Cad has a Hydramatic, I think you'll find it easier and more pleasurable to drive in modern traffic, and giving up no performance to the Century, all wrapped in a more dramatic, modern body. Hope this helps. Feel free to drop me a line if you'd like more color commentary.

I don't know a lot about Studebakers, but this tidy little convertible seems like a nice alternative to the recent group of Mopars and Fords we've had in stock. Studebaker seems to have beaten everyone else to the punch by introducing the modern-looking Champion right after the war, and its sleek profile looks downright sporty parked next to, say, Leroy the 1949 Plymouth in our showroom. This car hails from sunny California and shows signs of conscientious ownership. It was surely restored some years ago, but there's still a lot of originality here, too. The paint is called Gala Brown, and it has a bit of metallic in it to make things interesting, and I kind of like the subtle combination. There's no rust or signs of patches anywhere on the car, reinforcing its California history, and the chrome is excellent throughout. It is fitted with accessory fog and back-up lights, all of which work properly, and details like the nose emblem and hood ornament are very good. The tan canvas convertible top is showing some age, but the power mechanism works properly and it seals up about as well as you would expect for a mid-40s ragtop. The interior is brown vinyl doing a reasonable impersonation of leather, and shows virtually no wear. Probably restored with the rest of the car, perhaps in the '90s, the seats remain firm and comfortable (I hate it when you sit in an old car and feel like you're in a hole), and the door panels are excellent. I'm guessing the gauges are original and fully functional, although the fuel gauge seems a little sluggish. Studebaker gave us a big clock right in the middle, but sadly, it is not working. But on the upside, the radio does work as does the factory-installed overdrive, controlled by a knob to the left of the steering column. Seat belts were added front and rear, and there are still remnants of the original service guide inside the glovebox door. Studebaker gave the Champion a peppy 170 cubic inch inline-six which moves the little ragtop easily. It has a nice grumble from the single exhaust, and with the overdrive engaged, it's happy to cruise at modern highway speeds. Clutch and shift action are light, and braking is firm without any tugging. The engine bay isn't detailed for show, but it is clean and functional with no signs of trouble and evidence of recent maintenance, and the fuel system was recently overhauled, including a rebuilt carburetor. It's solid and clean underneath, as you'd expect from a California car. I don't know how old the tires are, but they show plenty of tread and no cracking or other warning signs. A nice little convertible that's a bit out-of-the-ordinary. Asking $29,900, but offers are always invited. Thanks for looking!

I don't know a lot about Studebakers, but this tidy little convertible seems like a nice alternative to the recent group of Mopars and Fords we've had in stock. Studebaker seems to have beaten everyone else to the punch by introducing the modern-looking Champion right after the war, and its sleek profile looks downright sporty parked next to, say, Leroy the 1949 Plymouth in our showroom. This car hails from sunny California and shows signs of conscientious ownership. It was surely restored some years ago, but there's still a lot of originality here, too. The paint is called Gala Brown, and it has a bit of metallic in it to make things interesting, and I kind of like the subtle combination. There's no rust or signs of patches anywhere on the car, reinforcing its California history, and the chrome is excellent throughout. It is fitted with accessory fog and back-up lights, all of which work properly, and details like the nose emblem and hood ornament are very good. The tan canvas convertible top is showing some age, but the power mechanism works properly and it seals up about as well as you would expect for a mid-40s ragtop. The interior is brown vinyl doing a reasonable impersonation of leather, and shows virtually no wear. Probably restored with the rest of the car, perhaps in the '90s, the seats remain firm and comfortable (I hate it when you sit in an old car and feel like you're in a hole), and the door panels are excellent. I'm guessing the gauges are original and fully functional, although the fuel gauge seems a little sluggish. Studebaker gave us a big clock right in the middle, but sadly, it is not working. But on the upside, the radio does work as does the factory-installed overdrive, controlled by a knob to the left of the steering column. Seat belts were added front and rear, and there are still remnants of the original service guide inside the glovebox door. Studebaker gave the Champion a peppy 170 cubic inch inline-six which moves the little ragtop easily. It has a nice grumble from the single exhaust, and with the overdrive engaged, it's happy to cruise at modern highway speeds. Clutch and shift action are light, and braking is firm without any tugging. The engine bay isn't detailed for show, but it is clean and functional with no signs of trouble and evidence of recent maintenance, and the fuel system was recently overhauled, including a rebuilt carburetor. It's solid and clean underneath, as you'd expect from a California car. I don't know how old the tires are, but they show plenty of tread and no cracking or other warning signs. A nice little convertible that's a little out-of-the-ordinary. Asking $29,900, but offers are always invited. Thanks for looking!

David, your post gave me one other thought, and then I think I'm done: these additions and extensions both earlier and later than the "original" Classic Era may very well make the club LESS approachable rather than more. Go ahead, try to describe the current criteria (never mind the proposed 1953 extension) to someone who isn't familiar with the club. It used to be "Exceptional luxury cars from 1925 to 1942," which was easy. Clarify the "exceptional" part by saying, "You know, Lincoln, Cadillac, Packard, Mercedes-Benz stuff like that." Then the post-war Continentals were added, and you could say, "Exceptional luxury cars from 1925 to 1942, plus Lincoln Continentals to 1948" and that actually might have made it EASIER for people to grasp, because they knew what a Lincoln Continental was. Then we back-dated cars, making it "Exceptional luxury cars from 1925 to 1942, plus Lincoln Continentals to 1948, and if a car was identical to a car built in 1925, but was built earlier than that, it's in, too." Then we added a bunch of post-war Cadillacs, but not all of them (60, 62, 63, and 75 but not the 61), then the Town and Country (and a six cylinder, no less!), and now this proposal. Is it any wonder why laymen think we're snobs trying to keep people out? Perhaps the non-member says, "I have a car, maybe it's a Classic, maybe not, but trying to navigate the definition is a major headache and sure looks exclusionary. What if my car isn't good enough? Why bother?" I like the idea of pursuing avenues that make the club more approachable and accessible and using those tools to expand membership among owners of cars already on the list. Trying to attract new members with expanded criteria is like digging your own pond, filling it with fish, and then going fishing, rather than simply fishing in the ocean.

No worries, Steve, this is a good discussion that we needed to have. I have no ill feelings toward any individuals here (or anywhere), but like others, I feel very strongly about the topic. All my life I lived on the periphery of the CCCA, going on caravans with friends who owned Packards and Rolls-Royces and Pierce-Arrows because we didn't own such cars. As a result, the CCCA became the goal for me, and owning a CCCA Full Classic was something I've dreamed of since I was 8 years old and got a ride in a big, blue 1933 Packard Twelve sedan that I still yearn to find and purchase. That, to me, is the CCCA. Great, powerful, elegant cars on tour. Not Model As, not 1948 Oldsmobuicks, not muscle cars, but cars with AT LEAST eight cylinders, sidemounts, and yes, even wide whites and trunks (remember I am a product of the CCCA in the 80s!). As a result, my 1929 Cadillac is the realization of a 30-year dream, and hopefully just the first step in a lifetime enjoying the things that the CCCA (currently) espouses. I'm not willing to give up on that dream, but it also doesn't involve chasing a bunch of modern (sorry, 1953 is modern) vehicles on a Caravan, arriving at each stop as everyone else in their faster iron is breaking camp, and feeling like an anchor on the whole group. No thanks. I sincerely hope that the folks in charge of the club monitor this message board and have been following this discussion, as it brings up good points. None of us here is throwing stones, and there are more than a few well-reasoned opinions. While we are a very tiny fraction of the CCCA's membership, the overwhelming opinion here from people of all ages and from all walks of life is that we are displeased with the idea of further diluting the club and simply don't see the wisdom of the decision. It will surely not add significantly to our membership, and if folks here are to be believed, it may have exactly the opposite effect. Would I walk away on principle? I think I would. It would be disappointing and a very tough decision, but the club to which I aspired my whole life would no longer be the one that I joined. This club needs people like me: young, energetic, willing to drive the old iron, and with the disposable income to get involved and participate on a grand scale. Yeah, I said it--the CCCA needs me more than I need it; let my voice at least be the equal of the guy with the 1953 Bentley who is aching to get in (or, more likely, just looking to add to the car's value with Full Classic status attached to it). This is a road the club has traveled before, and we have all [hopefully] learned lessons along the way. Let's hope they will be applied here.

Dave, with all due respect, I think you're seeing the big picture without recognizing that the beauty of the CCCA lies in the details. You can generalize about all old cars of a certain era being classics, but you know that's hogwash. You can dismiss the slippery slope argument saying that the original founders would be including '80s Rolls-Royces, but you also know that's not true. The CCCA has a defined list which makes it easy to see what's included after the fact, but perhaps what is more difficult is actually defining what a Full Classic is. And there is where I think you're missing the point: It can't be simply defined by a single criteria such as age or year of manufacture, it's a combination of things. There's just nothing built after the war that's equivalent to a V16 Cadillac or a supercharged Duesenberg. There were many fine cars built, many expensive cars built, and quite a few custom-bodied cars built after the war, but they didn't quite have the same combination of... whatever it is that makes a Classic special. It's like Thurgood Marshall on pornography: I don't know how to define it, but I know it when I see it. Classics are much the same. This, I think, is why we're getting upset. The pool is getting diluted because the generally accepted concept of a Full Classic is being applied to cars that don't really fit the bill, and it kind of offends our sense of right and wrong, although most of us can't say specifically and quantitatively why. It's not JUST the era, it's not JUST that they're expensive, it's not JUST that they were meticulously built, it's something else that's almost intangible, and most certainly a combination of factors that you're dismissing out-of-hand. After the war, whatever that was was pretty much gone from the automotive kingdom. So don't belittle us for feeling passionately about this, don't make us out to be idiots who don't seem to understand the idea of the club or the vision of the "founding fathers," and don't insult us for wanting to keep the club reserved for special cars, however they are defined. As far as many of us are concerned, there was NOTHING built in 1953 that fits the generally-held concept of Full Classic, no matter how similar it is to something older that got in on a technicality. As I said, perhaps the true barometer of the 1953 additions is whether they're identical to the 1942 models, not the latest possible 1948 models. Ignoring that and yes, the slope does become slippery as hell. I also think that a post up above got it right--why are we amending the by-laws for a very, very small number of cars? The guys who own those cars surely own other Classics, and if not, well, too bad. There's an argument to be made that since it isn't that many cars, maybe we shouldn't care, but isn't that the very definition of the slippery slope? That they're PROMISING us that they won't move the date again (which I'm guessing they promised when the 1948 date came up and the Town and Country question was posed) is further proof that they KNOW they're going out on a limb here and that it will get a bunch of the membership up in arms. And sooner or later some group of motivated, vocal Continental Mark II owners is going to start lobbying, saying, well, look, the MKII came out just a year or two after the 1953 cut-off date, and it really was hand-crafted, and it was the most expensive car built and... and... and... ...And here we will be again.

Sent you a PM, Al. Thanks!

Look through our inventory, and you’ll find only two cars that rival the quality of the work on this stunning 1951 Pontiac Eight sedan delivery: one costs $1.8 million, and the other costs more than half a million. THAT’s how nice this car is, and we have no qualms about calling this the finest 1951 Pontiac sedan delivery on the planet. And before you scoff at the price and call me crazy, note that at least three other inferior examples have sold at auction for bigger numbers. Quite honestly, even if you could find one, you couldn't put even the nicest original car into this condition for less than the asking price. Anyway, it really is as nice as it looks in every way. Finished in St. Clair Blue, which is a correct 1951 Pontiac color (original color was Palmetto Green), it's simply gorgeous in person. As a California car all its life, there's zero rust and no evidence of any patches or repairs, and if this truck ever worked for a living, that was a long, long time ago and I'm guessing its job was delivering pillows or feathers, because it's immaculate. The bodywork is laser-straight and painted with modern 2-stage urethane, so it does have a hard shine that isn't totally correct, but on the upside, it'll look this good practically forever. The Streamliner models also got plenty of chrome, all of which has been restored to concours levels, including the massive grille and bumpers, delicate 'Pontiac Eight' script, and speed lines on the hood and rear door. There's a Deluxe indian head hood ornament that is just amazing, and yes, it does light up with the headlights. This truck is also loaded with every accessory and option you could get including fender skirts, dual spotlights with mirrors, dual taillights with back-up lamps, and a visor. The interior is probably a lot nicer than original with correct gray vinyl on the seats and door panels. I'm guessing that a rubber floor mat was standard equipment, but perhaps Deluxe models like this one came with the same carpeting the production cars got, I can't find a source that can confirm or deny this. At any rate, it's just as nice inside as it is outside, with fully rebuilt gauges that all work properly, an AM radio that comes in loud and clear, a heater that will roast a turkey, and impressive attention to detail. In back, there's battleship linoleum on the floor, a taut healiner, and some kind of cardboard-based material protecting the side walls, all of it very correct-looking. There's also a full-sized matching spare under a trap door in the rear. The engine is Pontiac's smooth, reliable 268 cubic inch inline-eight, which is a flathead design and makes 120 horsepower thanks to a compression bump in 1950. Beautifully detailed and fully rebuilt, it runs smoothly and makes subtle eight-cylinder sounds, but really this is much too luxurious-feeling an engine for a delivery truck. The detailing throughout the engine bay is highly correct, from finishes to hardware, with the only notable deviations from absolute original is a heat shield under the carburetor and incorrect rivets holding the body tag in place if you really want to pick nits. The engine is linked to a 4-speed Hydramatic automatic transmission recently serviced by the experts at Capaldi Enterprises, and it cruises effortlessly because Hydramatics got highway-friendly 3.63 rear gears. The chassis is as highly detailed as the engine bay and needs little more than a wipe-down to be ready for competition at the very highest levels. Five new BFGoodrich wide whitewall bias-ply tires have been fitted to the original wheels. We're asking $59,900, and given the quality of the restoration, it's a screaming bargain. Pontiac fans will know this is a rare machine, and if you've ever seen one, it was probably modified or cut up, not restored to concours levels. It's also a lot of fun to drive and still every bit as practical as it was 50 years ago. A very cool old car for someone looking for something special. Thanks!

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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]-->Look through our inventory, and you’ll find only two cars that rival the quality of the work on this stunning 1951 Pontiac Eight sedan delivery: one costs $1.8 million, and the other costs more than half a million. THAT’s how nice this car is, and we have no qualms about calling this the finest 1951 Pontiac sedan delivery on the planet. And before you scoff at the price and call me crazy, note that at least three other inferior examples have sold at auction for bigger numbers. Quite honestly, even if you could find one, you couldn't put even the nicest original car into this condition for less than the asking price. Anyway, it really is as nice as it looks in every way. Finished in St. Clair Blue, which is a correct 1951 Pontiac color (original color was Palmetto Green), it's simply gorgeous in person. As a California car all its life, there's zero rust and no evidence of any patches or repairs, and if this truck ever worked for a living, that was a long, long time ago and I'm guessing its job was delivering pillows or feathers, because it's immaculate. The bodywork is laser-straight and painted with modern 2-stage urethane, so it does have a hard shine that isn't totally correct, but on the upside, it'll look this good practically forever. The Streamliner models also got plenty of chrome, all of which has been restored to concours levels, including the massive grille and bumpers, delicate 'Pontiac Eight' script, and speed lines on the hood and rear door. There's a Deluxe indian head hood ornament that is just amazing, and yes, it does light up with the headlights. This truck is also loaded with every accessory and option you could get including fender skirts, dual spotlights with mirrors, dual taillights with back-up lamps, and a visor. The interior is probably a lot nicer than original with correct gray vinyl on the seats and door panels. I'm guessing that a rubber floor mat was standard equipment, but perhaps Deluxe models like this one came with the same carpeting the production cars got, I can't find a source that can confirm or deny this. At any rate, it's just as nice inside as it is outside, with fully rebuilt gauges that all work properly, an AM radio that comes in loud and clear, a heater that will roast a turkey, and impressive attention to detail. In back, there's battleship linoleum on the floor, a taut healiner, and some kind of cardboard-based material protecting the side walls, all of it very correct-looking. There's also a full-sized matching spare under a trap door in the rear. The engine is Pontiac's smooth, reliable 268 cubic inch inline-eight, which is a flathead design and makes 120 horsepower thanks to a compression bump in 1950. Beautifully detailed and fully rebuilt, it runs smoothly and makes subtle eight-cylinder sounds, but really this is much too luxurious-feeling an engine for a delivery truck. The detailing throughout the engine bay is highly correct, from finishes to hardware, with the only notable deviations from absolute original is a heat shield under the carburetor and incorrect rivets holding the body tag in place if you really want to pick nits. The engine is linked to a 4-speed Hydramatic automatic transmission recently serviced by the experts at Capaldi Enterprises, and it cruises effortlessly because Hydramatics got highway-friendly 3.63 rear gears. The chassis is as highly detailed as the engine bay and needs little more than a wipe-down to be ready for competition at the very highest levels. Five new BFGoodrich wide whitewall bias-ply tires have been fitted to the original wheels. We're asking $59,900, and given the quality of the restoration, it's a screaming bargain. Pontiac fans will know this is a rare machine, and if you've ever seen one, it was probably modified or cut up, not restored to concours levels. It's also a lot of fun to drive and still every bit as practical as it was 50 years ago. A very cool old car for someone looking for something special. Thanks!

I haven't anticipated the arrival of many cars like I have this one. It's one of my personal favorites for obvious reasons, and now that it has arrived, I've spent a few days getting to know it better. The result? I love it. It appears to have either an older restoration that was recently freshened with new paint, interior, and top, or it's a shockingly solid original car with recent paint, interior, and top. Even though it shows signs of use, the engine is just too clean to be original in my opinion, and the cloth wiring is older, but in excellent condition, so it's surely newer than 1940, too. The body is completely rust-free, including the rust-prone tool tray in the trunk and the floors at the base of the A-pillars. I can see no evidence of patches in this area, so I surmise that it has never been a rusty car, because you just can't make repairs in those areas and render them completely invisible. I would guess that it was painted within the past ten years, a frame-on paint job where all the trim came off but the car wasn't totally disassembled. The body tag says it was originally Black, but the current Royal Maroon looks fabulous and I can see no evidence of the original color, so when it was repainted the first time many years ago, the job was extremely thorough. And again, this lends credence to the belief that this is an older restoration that was recently and extensively freshened. The chrome is a combination of restored and original stuff--the bumpers are obviously newer, the grilles are much, much too nice to be 1940 chrome, but things like the Century hood handles and vents are surely original. It also wears a set of fully operational Trippe Speedlights up front that are like flamethrowers given the limitations of a 6-volt electrical system. The burgundy leather interior was probably done at about the same time as the paint job, within the past 10 years or so. It shows minimal wear, with the only notable scuffs being on the driver's side seat frame where you'd climb in. The door panels, carpets, and seat cushions show minor signs of use, but it remains in excellent condition throughout. The gauges appear to be original, as does the horn button, but the steering wheel itself has obviously been re-cast. All the gauges work except the fuel gauge, which I believe has a problem with the sender, as it jiggles when you turn on the ignition, but always registers empty. The original Sonomatic radio is also fully functional, although the clock--as expected--does not work. The gorgeous tan canvas top is perhaps newer than the rest simply because it fits so well and shows no stretching and sagging, and if I had to guess, I'd say it has never been down. There's a matching boot in the neatly finished trunk that has clearly never been used. I would have taken some photos with the top down, but it's at least a 2-man job to get it back up again and I don't like to store cars with the tops down. The way it drives suggest that someone cared about making it right for touring. Buick's big 320 cubic inch straight-eight is everything you'd hope: smooth, powerful, torquey, and with just enough of a voice to let you know there are eight cylinders at work under the hood. I can only hope my own '41 Century runs and drives this well when it's done, and there's no denying that this car is FAST. Yes, it's all relative, but it runs away from traffic at stoplights and hammers up to 65 MPH without breaking a sweat. I drove it quite a bit the other day, up to and including about 15 minutes idling in a drive-through line during a 90+ degree day, and it never went above 180 on the gauge. The suspension is supple, perhaps a tad too soft for my tastes, but there's no arguing with the boulevard-smooth ride quality, and the brakes do an admirable job with a firm pedal. Shift action is easy, the clutch is light with good take-up, and, well, like I said, someone put this one right so they could enjoy it on the road. It wears slightly oversized whitewall tires on wheels with correct hand-painted striping, trim rings, and original hubcaps. A fantastic, highly capable car that looks as great as it runs. Not too nice, but needing nothing, THIS is a car that should go on every tour you can find, and will lead the pack in terms of comfort, reliability, and speed. Asking $49,900 and we're always open to reasonable offers. Thanks!

I haven't anticipated the arrival of many cars like I have this one. It's one of my personal favorites for obvious reasons, and now that it has arrived, I've spent a few days getting to know it better. The result? I love it. It appears to have either an older restoration that was recently freshened with new paint, interior, and top, or it's a shockingly solid original car with recent paint, interior, and top. Even though it shows signs of use, the engine is just too clean to be original in my opinion, and the cloth wiring is older, but in excellent condition, so it's surely newer than 1940, too. The body is completely rust-free, including the rust-prone tool tray in the trunk and the floors at the base of the A-pillars. I can see no evidence of patches in this area, so I surmise that it has never been a rusty car, because you just can't make repairs in those areas and render them completely invisible. I would guess that it was painted within the past ten years, a frame-on paint job where all the trim came off but the car wasn't totally disassembled. The body tag says it was originally Black, but the current Royal Maroon looks fabulous and I can see no evidence of the original color, so when it was repainted the first time many years ago, the job was extremely thorough. And again, this lends credence to the belief that this is an older restoration that was recently and extensively freshened. The chrome is a combination of restored and original stuff--the bumpers are obviously newer, the grilles are much, much too nice to be 1940 chrome, but things like the Century hood handles and vents are surely original. It also wears a set of fully operational Trippe Speedlights up front that are like flamethrowers given the limitations of a 6-volt electrical system. The burgundy leather interior was probably done at about the same time as the paint job, within the past 10 years or so. It shows minimal wear, with the only notable scuffs being on the driver's side seat frame where you'd climb in. The door panels, carpets, and seat cushions show minor signs of use, but it remains in excellent condition throughout. The gauges appear to be original, as does the horn button, but the steering wheel itself has obviously been re-cast. All the gauges work except the fuel gauge, which I believe has a problem with the sender, as it jiggles when you turn on the ignition, but always registers empty. The original Sonomatic radio is also fully functional, although the clock--as expected--does not work. The gorgeous tan canvas top is perhaps newer than the rest simply because it fits so well and shows no stretching and sagging, and if I had to guess, I'd say it has never been down. There's a matching boot in the neatly finished trunk that has clearly never been used. I would have taken some photos with the top down, but it's at least a 2-man job to get it back up again and I don't like to store cars with the tops down. The way it drives suggest that someone cared about making it right for touring. Buick's big 320 cubic inch straight-eight is everything you'd hope: smooth, powerful, torquey, and with just enough of a voice to let you know there are eight cylinders at work under the hood. I can only hope my own '41 Century runs and drives this well when it's done, and there's no denying that this car is FAST. Yes, it's all relative, but it runs away from traffic at stoplights and hammers up to 65 MPH without breaking a sweat. I drove it quite a bit the other day, up to and including about 15 minutes idling in a drive-through line during a 90+ degree day, and it never went above 180 on the gauge. The suspension is supple, perhaps a tad too soft for my tastes, but there's no arguing with the boulevard-smooth ride quality, and the brakes do an admirable job with a firm pedal. Shift action is easy, the clutch is light with good take-up, and, well, like I said, someone put this one right so they could enjoy it on the road. It wears slightly oversized whitewall tires on wheels with correct hand-painted striping, trim rings, and original hubcaps. A fantastic, highly capable car that looks as great as it runs. Not too nice, but needing nothing, THIS is a car that should go on every tour you can find, and will lead the pack in terms of comfort, reliability, and speed. Asking $49,900 and we're always open to reasonable offers. Thanks!

My '29 Cadillac has a 140 inch wheelbase, and it's just a regular 5-passenger sedan, not a limousine. There aren't many that are bigger, although I believe the V16s were up to 154 inches, but I don't know if they built 1000 of them. There were V12 Packards that were longer, too, and those might qualify as production cars.