Steve Moskowitz

LOOKING TO PURCHASE A 1/43 SCALE MODEL CURVED DASH OLDSMOBILE SOLD BY SINCLAIR MINATURES IN 1972. THE CAR WAS PLASTIC AND CAME FROM FRANCE. PLEASE HELP.

VERY INTERESTED AS WELL...ABLE TO MOVE FAST FOR THE RIGHT CAR. PLEASE CONTACT ME AT 1-800-264-9951!

I AM SURE THAT THE REGULAR DF'ERS WILL EXPAND ON THIS SUBJECT BUT THE EASIEST WAY TO GET THE INFORMATION YOU SEEK IS TO BUY THE JUDGES MANUAL FROM THE NATIONAL CLUB. JUST CALL THEM AT (717) 534-1910. I BELIEVE THE MANUAL LAYS OUT THE POINT SYSTEM FOR ALL THE JUNIOR, SENIOR, GRAND NATIONAL AND GRAND NATIONAL PRIZES. IT IS FAIRLY SIMPLE ONCE YOU GET INTO IT....WELCOME TO THE CLUB AND GOOD LUCK

I SURE HOPE THAT PEOPLE USING THIS FORUM DO NOT DECIDE TO THROW OUT COMMON COURTESY THAT I HAVE COME TO EXPECT FROM MOST PEOPLE IN THIS HOBBY. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF POSTS IN THIS THREAD THAT I FELT WERE PERSONAL ATTACKS AND UN-NECESSARY! YOU CAN GET THE FACTS AND MAKE YOUR POINT WITHOUT ACCUSING SOMEONE UNFAIRLY. ANYWAY, IT SEEMS SILLY TO BE CONCERNED IF A TOUR HAS A NAME..I THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT THE CARS, PEOPLE AND EXPERIENCE!

i have been inactive in judging for a few years...forgot how many credits i had. do they stay recorded or file 13'd after a certain period in inactivity. plan on helping out again this coming year....may have a LOT of time on my hands!

since my magazine probably will not arrive for another year can someone tell me how my 1908 olds looks on the back cover? finally get one of my cars one the cover and the magazine is somewhere in parts unknown!

HOWARD...YES, MY TIM HELPED ME WITH MY 1908! I AM NOT TOO SURE WHETHER MY WORKING ON THE CAR TOO RAISED OR LOWERED THE PRICE BUT IT GOT FINISHED! REALLY HAPPY WITH IT AND HOPE IT WILL TOUR NEXT YEAR....<P>NOW I REALLY GUESS YOU HAVEN'T FOUND ANY PRETTY "STEWARDESSES" LATELY SINCE THEY ARE NOW "FLIGHT ATTENDANTS"...ONE MUST BE POLITICALLY CORRECT THESE DAYS! JUST FLEW BACK FROM A MEETING IN VEGAS ON UNITED AND IT WAS KIND OF HYSTERICAL. ON A DC10 THE PURSER CONFIDED IN ME THAT SHE DID NOT HAVE AN ATENDENT SLIM ENOUGH TO GET TO SOMETHING SHE ASKED MY HELP ON! HOWEVER, JUDGING BY SOME OTHERS I HAVE SEEN THERE ARE SOME MIGHTY NICE LADIES FLYING THE FRIENDLY SKIES.<P>INCIDENTLY, GOT STUCK HAVING TO STAY AT THE EXCALIBUR IN VEGAS...YOUR KIND OF PLACE THOUGH, THEY HAD A KK UPSTAIRS IN THE FOOD COURT..DOING A GREAT BUSINESS! SEE YA IN PHILLY

howard, i hit three different threads that have comments from you about KK's! you really must have it bad....wonder if there is a KK Anonymous group out there! i am headed to philly to pick up an award for my replicar 1908 and was thinking that on the way to the airport i could pick you up a few boxes. then i started thinking about the two hour flight and having KK's with me....all you would probably get were the crumbs especially if there were any good-looking female flight attendants around! hey, it's the thought that counts, right?

ALSO CHECK OUT THE WEBSITE FOR THE HORSELESS CARRIAGE CLUB...WWW.HCCA.ORG THERE IS A CLASSIFIED AD SECTION THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL

There are a lot of f-28's still around although the phaeton is among the rarest. the National Antique Olds Club and the Oldsmbile Club of America have rosters of owners. I do not know of any in the U.K. Both clubs can be contacted thru their web sites or jwo@primary.net and naoc@cdmn.net for membership info. Phil Fischer 605 W.Mt. Vernon St. Metamora, Illinois 61548 has a '29 Phaeton and is considered a leading expert on those years.

JanK...KK's are now available in Illinois at several locations so if you are traveling down to the Chicago area you can find them. My cardiologist, personal trainer, girlfriend are all upset since i discovered warm, fresh KK's. However, I have made my buddy who owns a clothing store very, very happy! Let's see cheese and brats from Wisconsin and KK's! Definitely not a healthy combination!

I SAW A WHOLE SLEW OF AUTO RELATED SHIRTS IN A CATALOGUE SENT TO ME BY ONE OF THE COMPANIES THAT SELLS CAR COVERS....PRICEY BUT VERY, VERY NICE (WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT THERE WASN'T ANY OLDSMOBILE SHIRTS!) THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN CALIFORNIA

<BR>add my name to the list please: aaca#621670<P>a quick comment about board members. i have served on far too many boards in my lifetime and the one over-riding GUT feeling i keep getting is that i hate term limits, hate trying to handle geographical or other types of special needs. in the end, i just want the best people with the deepest committment to, in this case the hobby. i have seen some people pass thru the aaca ranks that i wish were back...others i have questioned in the past. just my personal thought...i certainly recognize there are cases for a lot of other opinions!

I'm dying to see the responses on the value of Buick! There have been enough of these advertised and sold over the last few years so it sure should not be hard to "ballpark" it. Better yet, I'd sure like to know where the value of brass cars will be in years to come when those of us who love these things are gone. Another site that 1909 Buick should contact is <A HREF="http://www.hcca.org" TARGET=_blank>www.hcca.org</A> which is the horseless carriage's new site. Finally in the end, as we all know, the Buick is worth what one old fool is willing to sell it for and the other old foll is willing to pay for it!

Heck, we walk around with advertising on our clothes, hats, etc. so one more advertsing intrusion into our life should be no big deal. Actually, some of these ads may provide a real service besides defraying costs. It may be difficult, but i sure would like to see advertisers screened to those that make sense to folks in the old car hobby. This is a pretty focused site and i hate to wallow thru some of the crap i see on other sites. You guys have done a great job and i am sure most folks would support your decision.

will try to help you with questions about the amelia show....bill warner does a great job there and the cars keep getting beter and better every year. may be involved in having several cars there this march.

OK, I KNOW I REALLY NEED TO SHUT UP ON THIS TOPIC BUT.....I DO NOT HAVE ThE TIME TO DIG OUT THE DATA BUT THRU LOTS OF SOURCES THERE IS FACTUAL DATA ON MOST OF THE DOLLAR ISSUES EVERYONE HAS BROUGHT UP. I HAVE WORKED FOR GM AND BEEN A DEALER FOR MANY YEARS AND I CAN GAURANTEE YOU THAT THERE IS A LOT OF PROFIT INVOLVED IN THE MANUFACTURING OF CARS....NOW IF WE WANT TO GET INTO NET-NET PROFIT THAT IS ANOTHER STORY AS THE ACCOUNTANTS REALLY PLAY WITH THIS THING. OLDSMOBILE LOSS OF 120 MILLION HAS BEEN WAY DOWN FROM THE 500 MILLION IT WAS LOSING JUST A FEW YEARS AGO. HOW MUCH MONEY DID OLDSMOBILE REALLY LOSE? NO ONE KNOWS, BUT ONE WONDERS WHETHER THE LOSS WAS INTENTIONAL BY CERTAIN PEOPLE WITH CERTAIN DESIGNS. WHEN THEY BUY THEIR KOREAN CAR COMPANY I AM SURE THEY WILL BE VERY PROUD. AS FAS AS THE 1.2 BILLION CHRYSLER LOSS...IT WAS REPORTER IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. DETROIT NEWS AND THE J.D POWER REPORT A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO. IF MY THREAD HAD NOT BEEN MISREAD THE RESPONDENT WOULD HAVE REALIZED I SAID DURING THE LAST QUARTER, NOT LAST YEAR! ALSO, I AM VERY INVOLVED WITH GM'S CAR COLLECTION AND HAVE BEEN VERUY INSTRUMENTAL IN THE RESTORATION AND PURCHASE OF OLDS CARS AND HAVE ADDED MY TWO SENSE IN WHEN ASKED ABOUT BUICK. I HOPE THAT BUICK DOES IN FACT GET MORE OF OLDSMOBILE BUSINESS BUT I DOUBT IT WILL BE SUBSTANTIAL AS MANY OF OUR CURRENT OWNERS ARE NOT THE TYPICAL PROFILE FOR BUICK. AGAIN, OLDSMOBILE WAS NOT THE ONLY DIVISION IN GENERAL MOTORS THAT LOST A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF MONEY LAST YEAR. THINK ABOUT IT...THOSE IN THE POWER AT GM WOULD RATHER BUY DAEWOO THAN TO FIND WAYS TO TAKE HISTORICAL GM DIVISIONS AND MAKE THEM PROFITABLE. OH, BY THE WAY. IF YOU THINK THE AVERAGE NEW CAR DEALER MAKES ON AVERAGE $2000 IN THE NEW CARD DEPARTMENT YOUR NUTS! THOSE FIGURES HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED ANNUALLY BY A VARIETY OF INDUSTRY SOURCES. THEY CAN BE SOMEWHAT COMPLICATED BUT IF THE DATA IS STRICTLY FROM NEW CAR GROSS PROFIT IT IS SUBSTANTIALLY LESS THAN $2000 WITH NEW TRUCKS BEING A BIT BETTER. NOW IF IT IS LEXUS OR MERCEDES YOU ARE ASKING....ANYWAY, I HAVE PROBABLY BELABORED MY POINT WAY TOO MUCH SO I WILL WISH YOU ALL ADIEU AND HOPE THEIR NEVER IS A DAY THAT THIS COLUMN HAS TO TALK ABOUT THE DEMISE OF ANOTHER GM DIVISION.

Dave not to belabor the point but the $1500 is way, way off base! read the article again or the author is telling you the average dealer profit is $1500 per car which is in the right range. the average new car department needs $1650 on a national average to make a profit. most new car departments are losers these days. interesting to note that chrysler lost 1.2 BILLION this last quarter which makes oldsmobile's 120 mil look like a good deal! you also have to understand part of the accounting. olds may have lost money but did gm? olds is only a marketing arm, they do not manufacture their own cars but "buy" them from gm.....we just recieved the final sales totals for december in the chicago area, most olds dealers did real well! our new car sales were up over 40% from last year! go figure!

Just could not resist checking back in with you guys...very interesting discussion that i was not going to reply to but just can't resist! mr. moon, do not know where you get your profit figures from but they are way off! while the "general" has always been very careful not to divulge true profit figures from the manufacturing side the $1500 figure is quite low. you also have to understand the accounting side of this thing which is fairly complicated. reatta man, as a frequent contributor to articles in in crain's advertsing newspaper i can tell you that yoe mis-read them. gm canceled ad groups several years ago which made many of the dealers extremely mad (some were happy). these ad groups gave greater local control to dealers in areas of the country that hired their own ad agencies and basically were free from a lot of imposed gm rules. these groups were funded by dealers and gm. AFTER this they instituted co-op programs which the dealers funded up to 1% of the invoice and gm provided some matching funds. dealers then had to advertise according to gm's rules. gm does not pay for any individual dealer's advertising...it all comes out of each car they sell and the surcharge. this is a voluntary charge. of course none of this matters since gm's advertisng is so screwed up period! someone asked who made the decision on killing oldsmobile...it was made by the new chairman rick wagoner, the 47 year old ivy league guy with the bean counter background. enough said. you guys can beat the quality issue all day long. gm's quality WAS terrible, especially in the 80's but they have done a remarkable turn-around. there are several studies around as i mentioned before that provide quantitative data proving this. it is fact. does it always match the import cars, no but in some cases some models do or actually surpass some of the asian cars. i have been very proud to sell our current line-up with great quality and low maintenance intervals. talk to people in the industry and you will find the universal reason that olds did not make it was DREADFULLY POOR MARKETING AND ADVERTISING. buicks and oldsmobiles are very good cars and were finally aimed at different buyers (the average age of the olds buyer has plumetted in the last three years) but olds never found a way to conquest it's intended market. the idea of selling to the fleet companies was a loser for oldsmobile (not gm, since olds buys its vehicles now from gm unlike years ago). anyway, i'm rambling. it is late in the evening and i am now at my 14th hour here at our store (actually business has picked up) and still contemplating my future. when oldsmobile, montgomery-wards etc. goes away we lose a little bit of the fabric of our country...talked to a friend a who still has a job with gm a few hours ago...he sure was hinting about one more division eventually going away if this "thing" with olds works out. guess which division? sad.

mr. chapman,<P>i was getting my lynch mob ready to head your way...not really but let me send off my last reply on this thread. i do agree that major corporations need to do business in a different way. certainly the global economy has a vastly different landscape today. however, i have sat in meetings with some of these folks and have done so for several years while on two national gm boards...what, the heck gm's results from these folks speak for themselves!<P>quality. i owned a honda store for many years...i think i have a lot of first hand experience with the brand as i sold it only two years ago. your wrong...not just from my one-sided opionions but there are numerous quantitative reports on the manufacturing side and on the customer satisfaction side which do not support your allegations. they make a great car/truck but the domestic car industry has made substantial gains in the last decade. how do you compare an entry level car (alero) with a suv??? isuzu quality...that is an oxymoron! anyway, i will never change your mind or others but i have been on the front-lines trying to help gm turn lots of things around and think after over four years of sitting in on meetings for days at a time that i have a pretty good perspective of things. oldsmobile's demise comes down to one fatal mistake...we never tried to market our cars/trucks to the target gm geared us to and the marketing/advertsing we did was among the worst in automobile history. PERIOD!!!!!!

well, you have to be careful of what you read in autoweek and other publications. the figures being thrown out in many cases are not entirely correct. there is settlement money with the 2801 dealers and there certainly will be money set aside to defend themselves. there will be suits by individual dealers, maybe a class-actiuon suit and by dealer groups. the rub here is that the cost of fight gm just for a single dealer probably means over a million dollars to a single dealer...i know of what i speak. fighting the general in most cases may mean you win the battle but not the war. strongly disagree with ranchero about doing away with olds earlier. i was very involved with olds at the time john rock was general manager and was part of our national board....the decisions made then were right. the fact we did not fire our ad agency was wrong....rock says it was his biggest mistake. the stories in the press about rock mistakenly getting gm to spend money on product is bull...the product is, was and still is good and the surveys of our customers prove it. this still comes down to a failure of marketing...beg your pardon, that is why the hired zarella. check out his career....what has he really accomplished! has market share gone up since his coming to gm? i won't belabor all of this cause i could go on for hours....this comes down to a company that has decided to run rather than fight. a company who apparently can spend a inordinate amount of their resources on saturn and let one of america's proudest nameplates go away.

howard, you are right on the money. ron zarella, the guy i blame personally for all the faults with gm amrketing apparently has had the attitude that he wanted all gm people to be loyal to gm. he felt it not in the corp's best interest to have loyalty to olds, caddy etc. when i worked for olds and over the last two decades the olds dealer group as well as the other divisions enjoyed their sense of pride, teamwork and healthy competition between divisions. my guess is that zarella was the last guy to be picked when choosing up sides in school and now is going to make everyone pay! the good people at gm have been mostly driven away and instead there is this cold, passionless group that seems in many cases to be going thru the motions. i hope i am wrong but i can not help but feel that the current path that gm is taking will lead to a monumental downfall for the company. there are a lot of great products due out by the other divisions in the next few years but they still need people to make it "happen." the recent lack of success and failure by several on-line car brokers is a testimony that most people still like getting old-fashion good service with a smile.

well guys, we are not sure yet if there is a heart at general motors. only time will tell. the basic financial package we all are recieving next week will be ok for most of the 2000 "small dealers" but the other 800 will be another story. most dealers will not be able to get another franchise to replace olds due to state laws, franchise agreement etc. those dealers who have just spent millions of facilities, have tax consequences and other special circumstances will now have to deal with gm one on one. there actually are some very good people that have the responsibility of caring out this horrible task but no one knows if the folks in the ivory tower will allow them to do the right thing. happy holidays anyway!

ok guys. if you want some oldsmobile comments i guess i am the one that should give them. i am one of the 63 remaining exclusive olds dealers, restorer (just finished a 1908), columnist for olds club magazines, historian etc. it really is a very sad time for the hobby and what once was a great company. the curved dash really started america driving and olds has been an innovator ever since. from our days in selling over a million cars to the announcement on the 12th is a long way. we did have great muscle cars with our 4-4-2's and hurst olds (we had linda vaughn, too). i served on oldsmobile's national board for four years just a few years ago and i can tell you that from my perspective as a dealer, hobbyist and 52 years of experience that it would have been impossible to have found more inept people in marketing and advertising than oldsmobile had. almost every article you will read will pretty much concur that we have great products...sadly, the folks at gm just did not know how to go about telling the story. the fact that olds was losing money is somewhat mis-leading as we were not the only car division losing money. figures don't lie but liars figure...i could go on with a whole lot of detail and furthur diatribe but they have broke this guys heart and passion for a great car company. i am assisting olds in restoring several cars presently and help purchase a dozen cars last year. we have been working feverishly at upgrading the collection at oldsmobile and now i wonder what will become of those cars. when bean counters who have no passion for the product start making decisions look out...those that love cars are sadly missing from gm today. for that matter, they are starting to be culled out at other companies to.

howard, yes i am one of the 63 remaining exclusive olds dealers and one of their top 150 volume stores (2801 dealers). i can not believe that this is happening...the level of distress with all my employees and friends is incredible. with the ohlendorf's we have three oldsmobiles being restored now for the division's collection...hope that they remain intact. merry christmas!<P>