tjenkins

Which reminds me - the standard SuperStat part number for 90C/195F is 65849. Make sure you get at least a new o-ring as Padgett indicates above.<P>--Tom

Both - I need to correctly load what you've provided - although having some problems with install (see my email to you).<P>--Tom

In trying to ascertain why my temperature has been rising over the past month (when its been rock solid at 90C for three years), I'd like to get an idea of what's normal for these (now) 10 year old vehicles.<P>Should you have time, could you comment as to what your 'normal' (city and/or highway) temperature is?<P>88/89 direct readout, 90/91 will require entering the on-board computer:<P>(Thanks Barney!)<P><a href="http://www.reatta.net/faq.html#DIAG">Click here for info on 90-91 Diagnostics</a><P>--Tom<p>[ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: tjenkins ]

I've made some initial tests (below) and would like to share them among the group. Bottom line - replacement of my radiator did help, but problem still exists (albeit at a lower temp).<P>After opening up my wallet to the tune of $240, I rec'd a new radiator, with plastic tanks and a flush. The guage does read 88-92 during 'normal' highway driving. In traffic, after warmed up for 30 minutes, it starts to creep up to 95, and up to 105ish or so. Seems to settle around that temp, and the analog gauge bounces between 2 and 3 bars to the right of straight up.<P>Although there doesn't seem to be any restriction, I can't figure out why the coolant system 'seems' to work only when external air is driven through the core (like driving on the highway - confirmed in town at 105, then dropped to 88 on the highway within 5-10 minutes).<P>Tonight, I took the resistor and ohmeter out, and made some initial checks. It does appear that the analog and digital gauges are indeed logrithmic (not exponential), and drop/rise at a steady rate. <P>To check, I entered into the ECM computer, and displayed ED04 (coolant temperature in C), and with ignition OFF, measured resistance from yellow wire [active side of coolant sensor] to ground.<P>Temp - Resistance<BR>85C - 261 ohms<BR>90C - 233 ohms<BR>95C - 197 ohms<BR>100C - 168 ohms<BR>105C - 164 ohms<BR>110C - 126 ohms<P>Factoring in 10%, it's easy to see that the low to high readings are related. In fact, actual resistance from the sensor seems to confirm this:<P>Temp - Resistance<BR>87C - 253 Ohms<P>I'm not yet sure why the 105C reading is higher than expected - I'm going to recheck. I'm also going to rerun the tests with my other IPC. Will post results.<P>--Tom

I've posted the text version of the 1990 TSB's at <A HREF="http://www.reatta.net." TARGET=_blank>www.reatta.net.</A> <P>Hopefully, with Skip's help, we'll be able to complete the entire 88-91 set in the next week.<P>--Tom

<A HREF="http://www.reatta.net" TARGET=_blank>www.reatta.net</A> has information on how to repair (with pictures).<P>Btw, I may be continuing to fight my rising temperature problem - why do you indicate tha tthe 3800 is 'happy' with a 180F thermostat?<P>--Tom

50's technology - now THERE were the days.<P>Do you remember taking number 1 spark plug wire off at night, and holding near the crank pulley to extract a spark to adjust the timeing for TDC?<P>Gads..<P>In any event, I was going to wait until tomorrow to post to the group regarding my radiator replacement, but I've got some news.<P>$5 in Radio Shack parts and I was off to the local radiator shop today.<P>I reasoned this - if the coolant sensor, ECM/BCM and IPC were good, if I were to substitute a known good sensor, and compared the readout on the IPC with the manual values, and they matched, then I could assume the eleectrical connectivity was good. I went to Radio Shack, bought a variable resistor (5K audio taper potentiometer), and set it to 180 ohms with an ohmeter.<P>I ran the engine up to operating temperature, confirmed the 90C on the IPC, removed the plug on the engine coolant sensor, substituted the resistor, and viola - the IPC read 90C. I reconnected the IPC, warmed to 105C, disconnected the plug, reset the potentiometer to 110 ohms, and the IPC also read 105C. So, assuming that this logic is not faulty, I'm off to the radiator shop to give them $240 (Buick dealer wanted $700).<P>Will let you all know how it turns out.<P>--Tom

How did you confirm the motor was NOT hot?<P>--Tom

Intersting... was it always this way? Did the temp rise on the gauge happend since you owned the vehicle?<P>Also, did you ever check the temp (either from BD21 or ED04 from the on-board computer?)<P>Have you tried other things such as the sensor, the thermostat, the BCM/ECM combo, and even the IPC?<P>I recall that the sensor is essentially a variable resistor - when cold, there is high resistance, and when warm or hot, the resistance drops. The ECM/BCM combination turn this analog signal into a serial digital signal which in turn feeds the IPC. So, if a corresponding drop is resistance is sensed, the IPC reads high(er than normal?).<P>As I understand it. <P>I'm going to make it a point to actually check the resistance of the sensor in a day or so to see if in fact it does equate to a warmer than normal temp.<P>From the manual, temp vs resistance on the sensor:<P>-- F ---- C ---- Ohms<BR>- 210 -- 100 ---- 185<BR>- 160 --- 70 ---- 450<BR>- 100 --- 38 -- 1,800<BR>-- 70 --- 20 -- 3,400<BR>-- 40 ---- 4 -- 7,500<BR>etc etc<P>--Tom<p>[ 06-05-2001: Message edited by: tjenkins ]

Ah yes, been there, done that, got to the T-Shirt <P>Although the HOT light/indicator has yet to come on, the temp gauge, and cooresponding ED04/BD21 computer readings indicate that a higher-than-normal (90C) reading exists at the single sensor. Typically, after 30-40 minutes, it'll rise to 95, 100, 105, 110 or so. Haven't had it on after an hour, although I'd suspect that it would rise correspondingly.<P>Recall that the dealer had R/R'd both ECM and BCM, which all but rules out these two modules. He also replaced the sensor and thermostat.<P>So, with all the replacements, I need to actually CONFIRM that the engine is either normal 90-95C, or indeed running hot (>110C) first, THEN, fork at either a radiator or electrical problem.<P>Thoughts??<P>--Tom

Interesting and thought-provoking comments.<P>Btw, I was under the impression that there was only one sensor at the top, drivers side, with a black and yellow wire.<P>The flushing vs rodding (or replacement) of the radiator didn't cross my mind, since the dealer was telling me that the car was not hot. Although I haven't yet confirmed the resistance (ohms) reading of the sensor at a given temp reading on the cluster, I would tend to agree with the above comments regarding the radiator.<P>Assuming that the car is in fact NOT of NORMAL temp (and the sensor/ECM/BCM/IPC were good), it would make sense that the radiator was somehow limited in functionality.<P>I talked to a radiator service today, and they confirmed that 10 years is about average for a copper core/plastic sidewall unit. For the radiator only, the dealer wants $577, NAPA is $190, and the radiator service (complete job with part and labor) is $260.<P>I'll call the dealer one last time to confirm that they are standing by their statement of the 'normal' temp, but I would be inclined to R/R the radiator at this time.<P>Film at 11.<P>--Tom<p>[ 06-05-2001: Message edited by: tjenkins ]

Yes, see <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002786" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002786</A> <P>--Tom

Well, the good news is that I only paid $150 for a working unit from Sharon Autowrecking in western PA. <P>The bad news is that indeed, this one exhibits the same indications as the other one. <P>So, either I have two bad temp reading IPC's (possible, but not probable) -or- I have something else wrong.<P>I can't imagine that the temperature gauge(s) would not read correct. In other words, I would tend to believe the fact that it's normal for 30-40 minutes (90C), then, rises. With the replacement of the thermostat and sensor, I am looking at somehow checking the engine to confirm that it is either normal or hot.<P>Today, after driving home, I anticipate checking the ohmic value on the sensor, but even if it did read low (which would produce a higher than normal temp reading on the gauge), why is the coolant hotter than normal as well?<P>Should I look at a weak water pump? Just what is a weak water pump? If the blades were broken, I would have imagined that the mechanic would have discovered this when he flushed the system.<P>The level has never changed - and I can find no leaks.<P>Although the mechanic says the fan(s) are both good, I have yet to confirm that they run in parallel (highspeed) when the engine starts to get hot. I seem to recall that they should go from low speed (serially wired) to high speed (in parallel) for both relays after 210F... but I can't confirm that.<P>Any ideas?<P>--Tom

VIN and asking price?<P>--Tom

Maybe someone can help me here...<P>I can't seem to find the pix on the above web site?<P>--Tom

Just when you thought you were winning the rat race, alone come faster rats.<P>Replacement IPC indicates same higher than normal temperature. Back to the dealer!<P><P>--Tom

Armed with a $150 (plus shipping) 60 day warranty IPC from Sharon Auto in western PA, I removed the 4 TORX screws holding in the original IPC, replaced it, and my issue seems to be solved.<P>Temp remaines at a constant 90C (195F) for 45-50 minutes. I'll continue to check coolant temp after warm up, but the failing temperature guage/readout inside the IPC seemed to be the culprit.<P>--Tom

Outstanding!!!<P>I've uploaded the 90 series, but would like to make available the entire 88-91 set.<P>Let me know what I can do to help.<P>--Tom

Does anyone have a line on the Technical Service Bulletin's for the Reatta? We have an idea to post them in text form, but I've got no idea where to start.<P>I've written AllData (as I had purchased a CD for the car several years ago), but no answer of yet.<P>--Tom

I too had this problem with my 90 about a year ago. Dealer provided another non-similar part, with the "ok, you need to cut and splice the wires together on the new one..."<P>Yeah, right.<P>Anyway, I removed the and opened up the assembly. Bending the contacts very carefully lasted 6-8 months or so, but it again failed, so I removed it.<P>Haven't had a chance to actually repair the original fix yet.<P>--Tom

Hmmmmm don't know about a heater core. Why would a bad heater core cause the temp to rise after a solid 30-40 minutes in traffic?<P>Same outside temp...either at 0600 or later on in the day - no difference.<P>I've ordered an IPC from Sharon Auto Parts in PA... should be here early next week - hopefully, I'll be able to put this to bed.<P>--Tom<P><BR>--Tom

Does anyone have a working IPC from a 90/91? I'm in dire need of one.<P>I've found several used ones in salvage yards, but the lower price (plus shipping) is $150.<P>Can anyone help?<P>--Tom

Per Netscape's "Page Info".. perhaps THIS is what's slowing down response. SURE seems like a lot of overhead.<P>Peter, got any ideas?<P>--Tom<P>Collectable Auto Discussion Forum : has the following structure:<P> <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=3" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=3</A> <BR> Form 1:<BR> Action URL: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi</A> <BR> Encoding: application/x-www-form-urlencoded (default)<BR> Method: Get<BR> Form 2:<BR> Action URL: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi</A> <BR> Encoding: application/x-www-form-urlencoded (default)<BR> Method: Get<BR> Image: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/ubb/bbtitle7.gif" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/ubb/bbtitle7.gif</A> <BR> Image: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/ubb/topic5.gif" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/ubb/topic5.gif</A> <BR> Image: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/ubb/closedb.gif" 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TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/ubb/closed.gif</A> <BR> Image: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/ubb/hotclosed.gif" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/ubb/hotclosed.gif</A> <BR> Image: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/ubb/lock.gif" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/ubb/lock.gif</A> <BR> Image: <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/ubb/topic5.gif" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/ubb/topic5.gif</A><p>[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: tjenkins ]

Anyone know of any sources (other than the local dealer) of a '90 Instrument Panel Cluster?<P>--Tom

Thanks.<P>I would tend to agree, but since we bough the car in 1997, and have now owned it for more than 3 years, and put some 40K on it, the temp gauge has NEVER drifted left or right of straight up. Only during the last few weeks has it creeped up. Over the last 3 years, solid both in summer and winter, highway or city traffic.<P>--Tom